Buying Direct from the USA

[John_Velo]

Hi Guys,

Without a doubt people will always protect their hip pocket and make the decision that best suit their personal situation. If I look at myself, I earn the same now as I did back in 1999. But everything else has gone up, so I will shop wiser. Whatever that wiser choice is, but it will be what suits me.

I think this is an argument that will neither have a winner or loser as the choice will be personal.

If every shop, not just saying pro-shops here, bought direct every product everywhere would be cheaper in every store. But that will not happen as agreements are made with suppliers to stop that practice. Though, the Chinese manufacturers have really destroyed that concept over the last few years. Lets thank the last 20 years of government in Australia for not protecting Australian jobs here.

I feel and this is my personal opinion here, that the suppliers probably have a lot to answer for with the high costs in Australia currently. Why, because I am sure they are working off out of date price books that do not reflect the current market price, Australian Dollar value against the green back. But that means higher profits for the Australian distributor when people support local first. If the suppliers had pricing that reflected current dollar value it would be a different matter. I know the argument will be, “but the dollar was more when we bought this now two year old stock”. Dribble!

Again just my personal opinion, but if it fits in a box you will eventually have to push it online to a greater audience, the same argument with book stores, the down side is they are going away but they are also going online to a great audience worldwide.
If it’s a service, never undercut yourself as your time is valuable and needs to be paid for and valued. I don't believe the service is something that is being disputed. What if you show the product at cost price and charged the true value of the service.
One: the buyer would think how cheap is that.
Two: you put the true value on your service and the two run separately on the books.

I am sure most business models are like this.

Let's look at the local suppliers that have a pro-shop as well, buying cheaper and selling through their own front door? I am sure they will be run as two different business’ to make sure they show different profit and loss margins. Not to mention the double dip..

Ok, off topic sorry about that.

 

[Frank Zippell]

With all due respect im NOT confused at all. You actually said what im talking about. See BOLD

Andrew IS saying that when the Aussie $ is back to a relaistic figure of say 90c, then the individual purchaser will no longer want to look overseas for their gear.

They will then start to look in Australia and at local pro shops, but guess what?? They may be gone due to NO BUSINESS now, while individual purchasers are buying from overseas.

OK, I am confused now.

Based on the exchange rate. Tell me why the individual purchaser would want to purchase something inside Australia at a greater cost, namely the pro-shop operators margin and the governments 10% GST, rather than purchase direct from the supplier and avoid both of these costs?

 

[Roysa]

Frank, they wouldnt. That is my point.

Point form may help...

- Individuals may choose to not buy from a proshop and buy from overseas as it is currently cheaper
- The proshop dies due to lack of business as the aformentioned individual bought everything from Overseas
- The dollar goes back to "normal", the individual no longer wants to buy from overseas at its not cheaper
- The individual turns to the proshop... but its gone.

What then...

OK, I am confused now.

Based on the exchange rate. Tell me why the individual purchaser would want to purchase something inside Australia at a greater cost, namely the pro-shop operators margin and the governments 10% GST, rather than purchase direct from the supplier and avoid both of these costs?

 

[Frank Zippell]

But it's always going to be cheaper to buy overseas regardless of the exchange rate, isn't it?

Perhaps I need to take a break and come back tomorrow and take a fresh look at what your saying, after the Maroons win tonight...............http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

 

[Roysa]

Firstly go the Blues...

secondly, it may always be cheaper but how much cheaper.

Example...

To buy a US$200 Ball with an exchange rate of $1.06c will cost an individual here $188.00AU plus delivery.

To buy a US$200 Ball with an exchange rate of $0.90c will cost an individual here $220.00AU plus delivery.

Keep in mind no gst or import tax, someone can correct me on the import tax if im wrong.

The question is will the individual purchasers stop buying overseas when the dollar changes, therefore sending these customers back to aussie proshops who may or may not be around due to lack of customers while the $ is up.

But it's always going to be cheaper to buy overseas regardless of the exchange rate, isn't it?

Perhaps I need to take a break and come back tomorrow and take a fresh look at what your saying, after the Maroons win tonight...............http://www.totalbowling.com.au/forum/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

 

[amagill]

Frank, they wouldnt. That is my point.

Point form may help...

- Individuals may choose to not buy from a proshop and buy from overseas as it is currently cheaper
- The proshop dies due to lack of business as the aformentioned individual bought everything from Overseas
- The dollar goes back to "normal", the individual no longer wants to buy from overseas at its not cheaper
- The individual turns to the proshop... but its gone.

What then...

Roy, I think what Frank is trying to say is that, for items under $1,000 (iirc, correct me if I am wrong), bought online, do not attract our %10 GST, therefore, even when our dollar returns to more "Normal" levels against the greenback, you would still be able to skip the %10GSt by buying online, instead of in the Pro Shop. So you're still going to save at least %10 by buying online OS.

 

[Roysa]

Correct Andy but the $ value will be higher. Hence the individual wont want to buy from OS anymore as the benefit of skipping the gst may now not be worth it, if the price difference due to the differnece in exhcange rate is greater than 10% then buying OS has no benefit, esecially when you include delivery.

And so they turn to the now non existant pro shops.

 

[RobbieB]

Correct Andy but the $ value will be higher. Hence the individual wont want to buy from OS anymore as the benefit of skipping the gst may now not be worth it, if the price difference due to the differnece in exhcange rate is greater than 10% then buying OS has no benefit, esecially when you include delivery.

And so they turn to the now non existant pro shops.

Roysa, if the $ drops back to US90c to price we pay for our stock goes up, so the retail price goes up with it. No matter what the exchange rate, there will be a similar disparity between aus retail prices and US online prices.

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Guys,

I am about to buy out of this argument for now.

But before I do, may I shed a little magic dust on the prices when the Australian dollar goes down against the Green Back.

The Pro-Shop will charge more for the ball, why, because their supplier will be charging them more as well.

It is only when it works the other way that supliers leave their prices up, i.e. not reflect the current dollar market value.

That is why they are called the "Middle Man" and why the proshop and every other shop struggles.

It is unavoidable with the current supply chain to work any other way.

 

[whereswally]

could some one tell me where i can buy a storm virtual gravity nano for $200.00 landed to australia

 

[Roysa]

Roysa, if the $ drops back to US90c to price we pay for our stock goes up, so the retail price goes up with it. No matter what the exchange rate, there will be a similar disparity between aus retail prices and US online prices.

My point exactly RobbieB....

You say when the $ goes back to 90c... retail prices here will go up correct? That is because the buy price will go up, therefore even individuals will shy away from buying 1 ball from overseas. They will have to rely on Proshops and local distributers here in Australia. MY POINT IS THAT IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE PEOPLE ARE BUYING FROM OVERSEAS DIRECT AND SKIPPING THE "MIDDLEMAN", WHICH HAS THE POTENTIAL TO CLOSE PROSHOPS IN BOWLING CENTRES DUE TO LACK OF BUSINESS. Then when the $ goes down and it is no longer attractive to buy from overseas the individual will look for a proshop but they will be out of business as there was an extended period where they simply could not compete with online overseas purchases.

Which if im not mistaken is what ADP was saying in the first place.

I love forums and their ability to get peoples opinions from all levels but I truly am blown away no one seems to understand what im talking about.

 

[da_cowman]

"That is because the buy price will go up, therefore even individuals will shy away from buying 1 ball from overseas."

But they won't. That's the point. Relatively, it would still be cheaper to buy the ball from overseas. Therefore, people may not buy as MANY balls, but the balls they do decide to buy will still come from the cheapest location.

Using your $200 example, we'll imagine the ball can be bought by our Distributors for US$130. I don't know when we add the tax to be perfectly honest, but I would assume after the exchange rate as gone through. If I'm wrong, someone will correct me.
The dollar @ 1.06 = $122.6
" " @ 0.90 =$144.4
We add our taxes to get $134.9 and $158.8 respectively. Let's assume the distributor get's an order from a pro shop for the balls. The Distributor now adds his mark up. Let's say 20%. (I truly have no idea if this is close to the mark, it's an arbitrary figure, but I would actually assume it's higher. We also aren't charging for freight). We now have totals of $161.88 and $190.6. The Pro shop operator now has to add his own mark up, and decide whether drilling is included. Let's say his mark up is 30%, and he tacks on an extra $40 to cover drilling costs (again arbitrary amounts). The $161.88 is now $250, and the 190.6 is $287.

Both are well higher then the amount you came up with, and I honestly believe I was being fairly generous with my mark ups, and as such, truly believe the amounts would be higher still. I'd be surprised if they were this low, but I was merely making a point. The fact of the matter is, Pro Shop guys will find a way to hang around. They stop getting as much stock and rely more on services, or as Jason as pointed out, Value Add to their product in other ways, whether it be with extra knowledge or guarantees, or whatever. There IS a market for ball drillings in Australia, and as such there will always be someone who will do it for you. If all the pro shops shut down when the going got tough, a number would re-open if they truly believed profits were there to made again. But there will be people with the knowledge and experience to do it, it's up to them to work out how to maximise their profits, in which ever way they can.

Cow

 

[jason_doust]

Jason,

I agree with you in the fact that you get what you pay for... But when I can buy Bowling ball "A" online and have it shipped to my doorstep for $200 and buy the same bowling ball from an Australian Pro shop online for $350 undrilled + postage, why is there so much variance. Surely I'm not getting a ball that is any better for my extra $150. Surely it doesn't cost the Pro shop that much more to import bowling balls...

I'll get the customer service when my ball driller talks to me about layouts and an accurately laid out and correctly drilled ball for which I think the majority of bowlers will be more than happy to pay for...

If somebody's whacking you for $350 plus postage and drilling, then yes, give me a call. That's (in all but the most extreme examples like some of the Japanese stuff) way too much.

There are many advantages to be gained by the retailer in a voracious market by selling an item at cost or below.
Here is just two off the top of my head.

1. You offset your loss by increasing the margin on other items.
2. You increase the possibility of future sales by introducing the customer to products or items that may not be aware that you even carried.

I have a pro shop, not a department store. That simply doesn't work in a pro shop on a bowling ball, as it involves skilled labour, or the hours of my life I put into my pro shop in both research and continuous learning. They're not on sale. Ever. And pro shops don't have a large staff pool to amortise a labour discount across.

This is your lucky day. I can offer you a four bedroom brand new home complete with all the mod cons and a brand new car for $1 below cost, a complete and utter loss for me. You will have to sign a 30 year contract and their will be a few clauses that you must abide with. However, your wish has come true.

Yes, yes, quite droll... And probably in breach of Trade Practices Legislation. I can sell you a bowling ball for $1 less than I pay for it too. But the drilling would have to be through me and it would cost a bit more than usual. That's the point! I won't run my business as a slippery slide of snakes and ladders pricing. It's revolting behaviour deliberately intended to mislead consumers. That's why I quote people complete prices. No "ball+freight+drilling+inserts" nonsense. One drive away price. No BS.

Rubbish, I personally know that a large electronic retailer is selling LCD and Plasma T.V's at cost.
1. The stock is getting old and must be moved.
2. They have increased the margin on the HDMI leads and the surge protector boards.
3. They offer several TV cabinets and surround sound systems exclusive to the above mentioned TV's with an increased margin.
4. Worst case scenario for the retailer is they have enticed a customer into their shop and made them aware of other products which may result in future sales of other items.
5. By having courteous, happy staff and selling an item cheap, the retailer creates a positive and uplifting experience for the customer who in turn will tell others of their experience. Thus creating the greatest advertisement that money cannot buy, WORD OF MOUTH.

Which is why so many retailers want to get out. They have to resort to tricky deals to make a buck. Old stock is not a big ticket item. New, must-have, wonder-products are. Old stock at clearance prices is also used to up-sell to the big ticket item. My whole business is built on word of mouth. I built it on honest dealings at reasonable prices.

However ,the individual purchaser has the ability of taking out the middle man and avoiding tax.

And paying it over and again in freight. I get these individuals tyre kicking by way of asking me for free advice and recommendations which I have recently started to politely decline. Another lovely by-product of our age. People try to weasel years of accumulated knowledge out of you. A venerable pro shop mate of mine had a guy come in with an imported ball recently asking if he could get it laid out to go long and strong. By dumb luck, the ball was OK to do that, so he started drawing lines. Then this guy proudly tells him once he's laid it out, he was taking it to a cheaper pro shop where the guy there would throw the holes in. He had no intention of paying my friend for his knowledge. Then he got upset when my friend wiped the lines off the ball and promptly told him that his guy had better lay it out. His reply..? "He doesn't know how!" I don't know how he expected the cheap drilled finished ball to fit, but he's probably never had a ball that did.

This is the wonderful market that the cheapskate economy has produced. An increasing "screw or be screwed" mentality. You wonder why we get defensive? Ask the jerk that tried that one on.

Needless to say that your driving an Australian built motor vehicle, your wearing Australian made clothing and all your household furniture is all Australian made, otherwise one may think your hypocritical.

No, that would make me some kind of fundamentalist. Let's stick to the subject, hey?

Not always.

Several customers have brought o/s purchased balls in to be drilled and have been surprised to find they could have bought the ball from me at the same (or even slightly cheaper) price, once fitted and drilled. Some have taken 2-3 weeks to arrive, some have not been the requested pin/top wt combination. Your statement is a sweeping generalisation. I agree that some balls are cheaper and bags/shoes are almost invariably cheaper, but to make the statement you did that it is ALWAYS cheaper to buy overseas is just plain wrong.

My thoughts exactly. I don't know how many times the customer has waited longer and paid more to bring in a ball from bowlingball.com. Barring a few drivers, everyone involved in this transaction in this country loses out. Most balls I sell are at least close to what you can do from there once you do all the sums. People are just too lazy to do some arithmetic. Or they will spend hours to save 10-20 bucks.

And that goes back to my original advice to pro shop operators on this thread. There are customers you should just sack, to use a great term I learned while studying architecture. Let them go elsewhere and make somebody else's life miserable from their miserly or worse, bullying behaviour.

 

[Roysa]

Cow I take your point and appreciate your effort to explain further. Im not going to debate it further as I feel the point i was making has been lost. That was simply that pro shops may be a thing of the past in aus if things keep going the way they are.

 

[jimcross]

Jason, your propositions are correct. All sorts of retail selling contortions,---SaLe!!!1--50% off, - -BELOW COST !!..---20% off any Competitors Price, and on and on, result eventually in one of two things. . the buyer gets fooled about the real price, and / or the back-up which doesn't come with it, OR the retailer goes broke over time. ( and there sure are plenty going broke at the present - in all sorts of fields )
Unfortunately, that doesn't matter, as people have for 2 or 3 decades now been persuaded that the only way to shop is to chase the cheapest price - no matter what.
By time they wake up that the only thing that that can eventually lead to is to drive all the solid value-for-money traders out of business, we'll be long gone.
A few years ago, at my Golf Course, I would get people pressuring me for 'discounts' for all sorts of reasons.
I used to tell them, that if I could offer discounts, that was saying that I had been about to rip them off if I could get away with it. As I wasn't about to rip them off, I had no margin for discounts.

Roysa. you're on the money too. Constant, unrelenting 'best price' hunters will eventually put most pro-shops out of business.

In the golf course I spoke of, I sold a lot of Golf Equipment in the Pro-Shop. Good prices - good service / repairs. I heard from the present owner a few weeks ago. His club / equipment sales have virtually collapsed. ( for the same reasons this thread is about ) That income was an integral part of the overall income. It has got to be made op somehow, if the facility is to remain available for the literally thousands of people it serves over time.

 

[steve jones]

Whilst I am these days long departed from the business this has been an interesting topic. Some quick points.

1. Some years back Brunswick released an automated ball drilling machine [the Pro Drill I believe it was called] - a rig designed by Accountants is what it was! It was for the K Mart market place in the US so any store clerk could drill up a ball [for a while K.Mart were Brunswick's biggest consumer goods customer globally]. Two years later you could have brought hundreds of these things for scrap - after a while people want actual "professional service" for their hard earned spend.

2. The business of bowling is healthy in this country - the sport of bowling is not. The day we lose the likes of Jason Doust [and he will go - he's too smart to hang around if he feels he is being shafted day in and day out] - is the day the sport goes largely in the toilet.

3. Do not hold your breath on the US$ rectifying itself - the dopes running the place these days don't want a strong currency as they must now drive an export business because the average consumer is up to his/her neck in debt, the Fed surely doesn't want it - and the whole place is holding a debt over $14 trillion - here's this little example so you can make some sense of how much that is. Let's convert it to seconds - then minutes and days - 1 million seconds - about 12 days - 1 billions seconds - close to 32 years - 1 trillion seconds ...............31,500 years...give or take. The US is in some serious trouble - fiscally speaking.

Steve Jones

 

[Animal]

this is my two bits based on actual research - Carol

After reading all the above I tested the theory that it is cheaper for the every day bowler to buy a ball off the internet
I used the Nano and Bowlingballs.com as these were mentioned earlier - attached
What I did find very interesting was their Protection policies - NOT VALID outside USA
so all you are buying is a ball for this price

I keep seeing every where is that the freight is cheap - to ship this one ball cost is US$118.20(AU$111.50) -if you add a second ball it is US$199.00
this equats to AU$7.96 per lb to ship ...... thats cheap ?????... personally I dont think so.

total is Balance:$ 278.19(AU$265.50) not including C/C fees and exchange rate fees so add AU$10 to cover them............ NOT DRILLED!

SO is it cheaper???? to get one from the states takes about 5-7 days later (the freight option is not express of 3-4 days ) then you have to take it to a proshop where the ball driller (if any good) knows how to lay out the ball to suit you, so include their experience and knowledge in the cost of full price for drilling alone + slugs & lifters (if used) and at the end of it all you have a ball, drilled (no warranty) and ready to use at a very similar price!
__________________________________________________________________________
Virtual Gravity NANO (id: 9217)$159.99 $0.00 $0.00 $159.99 Sub Total:$ 159.99
Weight = 14
Drilling Options = No -not valid outside USA
Drilling Protection = No - not valid outside USA
Double Your Warranty = No - not valid outside USA

Sub Total:$ 159.99
Tax:$ 0.00
Shipping:$ 118.20
Shipping Insurance:FREE
Packaging Fee:NONE
Handling:$ 0.00
Total:$ 278.19
Balance:$ 278.19(AU$265.50) not including C/C fees and exchange fees

International Exchange Rates
Rates provided are approximate
Rates are subject to change
All payments are only payable in USD ($)


Available AU shipping options
Intl Zone 604 ($ 118.20)

To get shipping estimates for another country,
please select it here:

_______________________________________________________________________

 

[Toon]

Thats a good point Lawrie, but the Nano is also one of the most expensive balls on the market and $159 is the highest price of any ball on bowlingball.com

Even at $280 shipped, add driling and its still cheaper than my local pro shop is selling one. $380.

Most top end balls on bowlingball.com go from $100 - $130US

But if you play the market smartly and buy in 2's or 3's you can save alot of money. I recently purchased a 2 Ball Tote Pro, Brunswick Ball.

I paid $307US which at the time cost me $290 AUS

I found the C System 4.5 in AUS for $290 plus shipping and the Tote was quoted for $95.

So I got a top notch 2 ball tote and a ball in 8 days for the price I was quoted just for a ball without shipping and a 3 week wait. I got the pin and top weight I wanted.

 

[Macka69]

I agree with Carol as my Nano cost $320 all up that's with the inserts and drilling included and also the expertise of the Proshop operator taking the time to watch me bowl and laying out the ball to suit.

I agree that the 2 can live happily in a relationship but the Proshops will probably charge more for the services if bought online and not from them.
Warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on anymore and have too many hidden lurks in them.

Just my 2c worth

Lyndon

 

[John_Velo]

G'Day,

Just my thoughts here, nothing personal at anybody, just my observation.

Interesting for the price when buying individually, though I believe and know that the prices from Bowlingball.com are not the best valued online shop and price landed to Australia.

What is stopping the individual Pro-Shop from going direct to the U.S supplier and buying a pallet of balls and other equipment for their shelves. I bet that the delivery rate on a pallet would come in at about $30 per ball at worst.

I have seen bowlers get together with their friends and group buy a pallet of balls. Then rock up to their local pro-shop for drilling. If the proshop does the right thing by their service, and I am talking about the Pro-Shop owner not undervaluing their time here. Lets say 10 balls drilled at $70 to $100 a pop. That is a saving to each bowler and the pro-shop makes $700 plus for a days work of drilling the kit and maybe make some extra money on the small items in their shop by up selling the service. The profit may end up being the same as the Pro-Shop owners are having to discount heavily to compete currently.

Surely that has still got to be a good option for all in the current global market.

I understand that the retail sector is harder now than ever and appreciate the pain caused due the global economy and this little thing called online shops.

But what is the real reason for the ball prices in Australia?
Why are the Pro-Shops discounting their service and undervaluing their knowledge and experience to compete?

Who is controlling the ball prices in the Pro-Shop when the price difference is so huge between retail and online?

I also apologies for the spelling, my spell checker is not working on this machine currently.