bowlers bad behavior !!!!!!

[AdrianS]

How about finding out about why these things happen and solving the problem in less confrontational ways,i think bowlers are more than capable of taking care of themselves in the majority of situations without TD's or administrators getting involved, give them a couple of minutes and they'll always calm down, if some 'hero with a clipboard' who think the job description of TD gives them some kind of God-like power gets in their face that's hardly going to help. Leave it up to us in the future please.

 

[steve_jones]

Is it any wonder that the sport is on a decline [steep by all accounts] if this type of rubbish from Adrain S is the common logic and mindset of bowlers today.

Count me out!

Steve Jones

 

[bfcc]

adrian, as td i waited untill the bowlers had finished there block then approached them and had a calm talk with them and everything was fine. what should the td do wait untill a bowlers smashes a computer, puts his fist/foot through a wall then get told the td should have done something about it!!!!! :evil: :evil:

bowling needs people to run it, if it was left to the bowlers a tournament would never run!!!!!!

 

[Graham]

Tho what Adrian says abuot the Hero With A Clipboard is right - all it would take is one TD to get a rush of blood and all of a sudden someone has 300 pins deducted, effectively ending their tournament and wasting the bowlers money in entry fees, airfares accomodation etc etc. The bowler might take action for compensation based ont he grounds they dont believe they did anything wrong ..

I think theres too many questions to be answered with that sort of immediate penalty, so dont think thats a great idea - but I do agree perhaps there should be a rolling total of yellow cards/penalties of some sort.

Perhaps let the bowler finish the tournament and a fine after 3 yellows or something. There would have to be a strict and i mean STRICT set of guidelines to follow, and only accredited people may be Tournament Directors and are able to Yellow Card people.

I think what we are getting into now is spending time and money on policing the minority - rather than spending more time and effort in promoting the better points of bowling. Is it really worth it ?

 

[AdrianS]

I'm worried about what other type of 'action' a bowler could take if they got hit up with some multi-hundred pin penalty. Or what someones 'mate' might do if they feel one of their friends is being picked on for no reason, or peoples judgement being 'clouded' by someones reputation where some people can get away with near murder but someone gets a talking to for something that may not have even happened. OK i admit i haven't seen the first situation unfold but as for the other 2...well i've seen/heard of these things happening, thanks to one of these 'heroes' (not in a Major/ATBA type tourney thankfully, those guys got/get the job done pretty well, especially in the ATBA days where the TD was a bowling a lot of the time too, so they had a good understanding of why someone may have been a bit grumpy about something, so commensense pretty much always prevailed and the 'cards' stayed out of sight)

 

[Graham]

Theres something I dont agree with - the TD being both a TD and a bowler !!

 

[da_cowman]

How about finding out about why these things happen and solving the problem in less confrontational ways

People just look for something to blame, and it's easier and feels better to blame someone, or something, else for your mistakes.
When people get annoyed. People take action. People take action on the wrong things when annoyed eg, Ball Returns, walls, seats, their equipment. I was taught a saying. "Don't get angry... Get Even!" which when combined with my other saying "A good tradesman never blames his tools" has made me a well tempered bowler on the lanes. When I miss the pocket, it's not because of the lanes, the ball, the pins, or the guy next to me. It's because I missed. I have come to grips with that. Some people out there insist on blaming thier equipment, shoes and the lane for somethin that they have done wrong. "The ball can only does what you tell it to".

There would have to be a strict and i mean STRICT set of guidelines to follow, and only accredited people may be Tournament Directors and are able to Yellow Card people.

Strict, as well as blunt and obvious. No loopholes. As well as a governing body which would decide punishment and the length of punishment. No NRL bullcrap where the players can go and plead guilty. You have done wrong, you should be punished accordingly, and i believe that by pleading guilty you accept the fact that you intentionally hurt, or damaged someone or someones belongings (ball returns etc), and derserve a worse punishment for that.

accredited people may be Tournament Directors and are able to Yellow Card people

Similair to the system of referees in soccer. Attend lecture, do test, pass. Simple yet effective. We would need many, with lots of tournaments. Numbers shouldn't be hard though, that is assumoing everyone is working towards a common goal of picking Tenpin Bowling up and getting it back where it used to be.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Levithian]

I think it would be very simple to establish a set of guidelines which dictate the punishment. How many ways can you interpret physical abuse on equipment (chairs, returns, monitors, walls, racks, etc) and verbal abuse on the lanes (how about simply audible swearing). Seriously, some people are making this harder than it needs to be. If you are caught for it, you know you have done something wrong, if you were caught the second time, you have had your warning and you have no excuse (deserving any consequences that follow).

A question aside from this, as it stands, what happens if you file a complaint with the tournament director for similar actions (say for instance, continually kicking returns).

 

[Funky Chicken]

I think some of the answers to this post are indicitive of today's society, in that people are not prepared to take responsibility and face the consequences of their actions. They are too busy blaming someone else for their miscreant behaviour.

As I see it if you are carrying on like a moron (punching, kicking, swearing loudly), and the Tournament Director comes up and gives you a warning, that should be enough motivation to pull your head in and behave like the rest of the bowlers in the tournament. If you don't then you deserve whatever punishment is dished out.

Now imagine if a member of the public was having a really bad or frustrating day, and takes out their frustration by punching or kicking your car. You'd be rightly p**ed off and takes some sort of immediate action. So why then should a bowling proprietor have to put up with some one punching scoring consoles or kicking ball returns ?????

Now I am not perfect (far from it), and have been guilty of bad behaviour in the past. But I am also a big believer in the saying "Do the crime, do the time". I mean look at tennis, if they are playing badly and take out their frustration on THEIR OWN equipment (eg racquets), they get a warning and then they are fined quite severely. So we really do get it way too easy.

Cheers

Funky Chicken

PS It is also my sneaking suspicion that certain people due to their "name or "reputation" get a lot more latitude than the average bowler. Just refer to Rachuig 2003 for undeniable proof, where you had some "name bowlers" who got away with kicking ball returns, punching score monitors etc etc. Shouldn't these people be role models for our young and up and coming bowlers ???



*** The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author, and in no way represent the views of the general chicken population!!!!! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Andrew S.]

Well said Steve Hunt.
All of you bowlers competing at the top levels should not forget that you are the examples held up to the kids.
Tenpin Bowling spends a great deal of money on sport development, and although our top players may not have as high a profile as some of those in other sports we still have our champions. If you are a high performance player you are always under scrutiny and some people will always be looking to find fault.
Don't give them the opportunity. We want to keep our Juniors in the sport. Parents and guardians are acutely aware of temper displays and bad language and will soon find other sports for the youngsters.
And one small request to all Tournament Directors. If you're going to have a card system for conduct, make it mean something.

 

[da_cowman]

I think it would be very simple to establish a set of guidelines which dictate the punishment. How many ways can you interpret physical abuse on equipment (chairs, returns, monitors, walls, racks, etc) and verbal abuse on the lanes (how about simply audible swearing).

True, so the Laws about Physical and Verbal abuse is easy. But what about Riding? Walking up on people?
Lots of people ride their shots today? How far do we let them ride? Or would it only count if they rode a shot and it distracted someone else from their shot? How many lanes do you have to give way each shot? 1, 2 or even 3?
Your right about the physical and verbal abuse. It should be easy to adhere to, but its the other smaller things that will be hard to referee over, to to serve out the correct punishment if needed.

"Do the crime, do the time".

How very true.

Can I ask a question to all. How many of you believe that Speed Cameras are no more then revenue raisers for the Government?

May seem off topic, but really it's not.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Funky Chicken]

Hey Cowman,

Good point about riding etc. Personally I don't have a problem with people riding shots and when it is done properly (ala Steve Lovell) it is really awesome to watch. As for giving way more than one lane each side, I've got no idea what purpose it serves (other than making a tournament take longer).

As for the speed cameras they reinforce what I was saying in my original post, about people not taking responsibility for their own actions. I mean if nobody breaks the speed limit, then how much money does the Government make from them ??? Thats right $0.

But because a lot of drivers are too busy driving around with their head up their......... they don't see the cameras (which more often than not stand out like the proverbial) and then blame the Govt and the Police for revenue raising.

So I say if you don't want a ticket/fine then don't speed, and if you don't want to get kicked out of a tournament don't abuse equipment. If you you do either or both (maybe speeding home after getting kicked out of a tournament ), then take responsibility for your actions and cop it on the chin. Giving a tournament director a gobful and telling them that its all their fault (for your behaviour) is akin to saying to a copper that's pulled you up for speeding "So why aren't you out there catching real criminals ?" Answer "Well if I wasn't dealing with D...Heads like you, I would be".

Anyway my soap box is almost worn out, but this is just my opinion.

Cheers

Steve.

 

[Dj bruv on da mix]

Just a quick post.... I think the Fines poilicy is maybe the way to go..and then as a last resort red carded, same sort of system that is used on the tennis tour. But then there would be many factors to consider, who would get the money from fines???...how much they would be, etc just my thoughts


Mark Foster

 

[Halo05]

back few years ago, i cant remember which tournments, one of ex junior i cant name who, she went to tournment and later found out she has bad behaviour and the tournment told her she is banned not going to that tournment for rest of life due of her behaviour for saying **&^%*##@$other woman on bowling field than soon after 4 woman have complaint the person who has behaviour. when she got back home from tournemnt she was totally screw up and realise it happens. now this one a new warning card it make differences, i am not sure what yellow for but know the rules with card just given u warning if u ignore the warning they will give u again onces more chance if u keep ignore again they will given u red it means u out of tournment, it sound like soccer and football as well. i know it seem bit crazy, that all i can say

 

[Levithian]

Riding and walking in on people still have provisions which allow a bowler to rebowl the shot dont they?. As for giving way, well i think a lane is all you need. All these bowlers who scream bloody murder when someone down on lane 4 is about to step up when they are bowling on lane 10 is just utter rubbish. If you are worried about someone 2 and 3 lanes away, your mind isnt where it needs to be. I cant see two lanes across when im focusing on the lane, i dont understand why some people have such a big problem with it. Personally, I find that having bowlers in my field of vision doesnt really bother me, but when standing far left, the thought of getting too close to them as they return does.

 

[Morwell Tenpins]

Bowlers Bad behaviour

It has been interesting reading the post from several bowlers regarding "bad Behaviour". Now I have been a Bowler (still am) TD and manage a bowling centre, :wink: so I have been involved on all sides of the fence. The main concern is that if a TD or Centre Managers don't start taking some serious action then all our up coming Juniors will think that it is normal behaviour and Tenpin Bowling will suffer (if not suffering already). As TD I usually go and have a quite chat with the bowlers concerned and to Date I have not had to disqualify any one.But having said that there are certain bowlers who will try to push the situation as far as they can, :evil: :evil: and that is not good for the game at all. One of the problems that I see is that most TD are not able to watch every bowler while a tournament is in progress, so there are always bowlers who get away with bad behavior on the lanes. What we need then are Lane Marshalls who could then report any bad behaviour to the TD, who would then have the choice of a warning or disqualification or whatever needs to be done.
I think that TBA also need to step in with all State Associations and start getting down on this behaviour with the State Championships and State team trials.

I remember in the old days(yes I am that old ) when the Melbourne Cup was run at Ringwood Lanes, the TD use to sit on top of a High chair(not baby chair) so that he could stay in control of all the action on the lanes. If my memorey serves me right it was Steve Jones (hi mate) and he had everything under control at all times, and no one, I mean no one got away with bad beahviour during the whole tournament.

Recently I watched the State team trials at Boronia and it just amazes me that from a committee of about 6 or 7 people there was only 1 actually watching what was going on the lanes, and sometimes no one was watching. So if someone actually misbehaved, the TD"S would not have seen that, and if spectators complained the response would be, We did not see it so we cannot take any action. Very disapointing to be in this situation..........

Finally, let me say that as a bowler I have been warned, got away with murder almost, suspended for 3 months for swearing (and I was not bowling at the time), but what it boils down to is that each and everybowler is responsible for their behaviour on the lanes and within the centre and outside the centre. TD are there to enforce a set of rules that you the bowler should be aware at all times. If you misbehave because your having a bad day then you must cop the punishment. Stiff cheddar if you can not handle the lane conditions on the day, get a life and start acting like an ambassador of Tenpin Bowling, otherwise take up being a footy player and carry on like ferral animals, because we dont need you in Bowling.

 

[steve_jones]

Hi Joe,

Just call me "hero with a clipboard" - what an insulting line of rubbish this trail has been for TD's. Given what I've read it would be justice if all TD's gave it away and left the bowlers to it - what a bunch of moaning primadonnas we apparantly have playing this sport these days.

Just for the record Joe - the "chairs" location was at the top of the grandstand we had to install at Ringwood to handle the crowds of spectators [as you know only too well] who came each of the MTC's FOUR days [and recently on this site I read where players want to cut back the number of games they now have to bowl because it's too tiring - poor dears!] - the chair was also well placed to run matchplay updates after each game given this was before computerised tournament programs were available so everything was done manually. The late great Billy Wambeek would have the calculations of accurate standings after each match game and we were able to announce the placings BEFORE the start of the next game - again this was all done manually. The location of the chair had frankly zero to do with controlling bowlers behavior - we didn't need to then - the sport was tough, hard, and competitive - but there was not one instance I can recall in any of the 50 plus events I ran that we needed to either warn or send off anyone....and Joe - that includes YOU!

But we never tried to modify or censor "natural" personality - Lovell, Peel, Froebel, Bell,Tomasinski [too] and many others were the life of the tournaments - they gave the game a great deal - but never crossed the fine line between effect and [negative] impact - at least not in my experience.

Far removed from what we have today by all accounts - as I said before in this trail...count me out!

Steve

 

[AdrianS]

Geez Steve, i already let all you ATBA guys off the hook. I just had to be that someone to warn people of the occasional person who has one rule for some/one rule for others, think they're still in the 70's etc... I'm not dragging the good ones down, just trying to run any bad ones out of the sport before they wreck someones career(15 yrs too late for 1 person i know, but i'll keep that one to myself)

 

[Craiggles]

I think the TD's all have a very tough job to do and if there is anyone else who think they can do a better job than the current TD's, then I invite them to step up to the plate and give it a go, just to see how difficult it is.

The TD's wouldn't be allowed to operate if they didn't know how to handle any situation which may arise. I'm sure that if a TD approached me about any behaviour I might display on an occasion, whether its a heat of the moment or not, I'm sure it would be for a good reason.

After all, without a TD, would there be any tournaments? Highly unlikely ...

 

[Morwell Tenpins]

Hi Steve,
Great comments with regards to the old crew bowling and entertaining the crowds. And yes all you youngsters(anyone younger then me that is) we did have spectators in those days, in fact we used to charge non tournament bowlers to get into the centre to watch the tournament. Just goes to show that the TD's and their support staff did a great job and did it all for the love of the game.
:^o Some of our current bowlers need to get rid of the crap thats being displayed at some tournaments and get on with bowling the best that they are capable. BUt my guess is that some of our bowlers are not as good as they think they are, and need to work a bit harder at being better bowlers not better Jerks...........any one can be a jerk....just go to the footy these days, there are plenty there.........