8pins start for women, did it work?

[becka_girl]

I disagree I think there is a lot more power players and two handlers then strokers these days in the men....

I guess how can we judge that the system is going to work after only two tournaments, this needs to be monitored over a 12-18 month period then we can make a true judgement. I believe the reason the entries for woman were down for the first two events is because it is just after Christmas and also in the coming months, the woman have Vic150, Melbourne Cup, NSW open and Queensland ladies classic.

I strongly believe the entries will pick up.

 

[RobbieB]

I 100% agree with Mike here. This whole argument of "topography" is junk. Yes, topography does affect how lane conditions play, BUT DO NOT ALTER THE PATTERN TO SUIT THE TOPOGRAPHY!!!!!!!!! LET THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE CENTRE CHANGE THE PATTERN!!!!!!!!

No. The lane surface, including the topography, dictates what patterns are playable on that surface. The object of a lane condition should be to provide, as much as possible, an equitable test of skill. Proper selection of the pattern to suit the surface, age wear and topography of the lanes is very important. Select the right pattern in the first place, then it shouldn't need much tweaking, if any.

 

[Top Gun]

I might have open a can of worms lol
AND SOMEONE DELETE MY SECOND POST I THOUGHT WE got Democracy Eh well who cares if the ones with power want to delete my posts let it be I won't loosing any sleep over it!!!!

 

[Scotty R]

Yeah dicta you clearly missed my point as I was just using those two bowlers as examples. The fact is as a few others stated the females lack the rev rates and thus cannot open up the lanes as much as the males. Yes a select few are very capable of beating the best male bowlers but they are still going to be more dependent on the pattern. Even the men who don't put a lot of work on the ball are still throwing shots at least as powerful as the women if not still more powerful. Just take George for example, minimal rev rate but how about the ball speed. How many women are physically strong enough to roll it as fast as George can with the same amount of accuracy?

We all just want to see our sport grow and this is a trial and I believe as fans and competitors the least we can do is support the efforts made to grow the sport in our country. Who knows bluey and dicta you may get your way yet. It might not work. But for the meantime it's here and if it does encourage improvement in the ladies department that will be fantastic (and don't worry if it is successfully, I won't say I told you so).

 

[Scotty R]

Sorry about the misspell there meant to say docta

 

[ratty133]

No. The lane surface, including the topography, dictates what patterns are playable on that surface. The object of a lane condition should be to provide, as much as possible, an equitable test of skill. Proper selection of the pattern to suit the surface, age wear and topography of the lanes is very important. Select the right pattern in the first place, then it shouldn't need much tweaking, if any.

Every pattern SHOULD be playable in every centre an on every surface. It will just alter how it plays. Tokyo at innisfail will play differently to Tokyo at caboolture, which will play differently to Tokyo at rooty hill, which will play differently to Tokyo at red rock.

Surely it will just require common sense on the bowlers part to figure out how to play the lanes to score the best....

 

[Docta]

There is only one thing worst than coming up with a S*&T idea Scotty R and thats is, coming up with a S&*T idea and running with it for a year while it does irreversible damage! I believe for every 1 female you may gain and i say MAY gain, you will definitely lose 3 male fringe bowlers. Once again i ask, who is looking after the interest of the bowlers who make up the majority of the price fund?

 

[Michael Little]

Every pattern SHOULD be playable in every centre an on every surface. It will just alter how it plays. Tokyo at innisfail will play differently to Tokyo at caboolture, which will play differently to Tokyo at rooty hill, which will play differently to Tokyo at red rock.

Surely it will just require common sense on the bowlers part to figure out how to play the lanes to score the best....

Every pattern SHOULD be playable in every centre an on every surface. It will just alter how it plays. Tokyo at innisfail will play differently to Tokyo at caboolture, which will play differently to Tokyo at rooty hill, which will play differently to Tokyo at red rock.

Surely it will just require common sense on the bowlers part to figure out how to play the lanes to score the best....

Matt, you can't be that naive lol and I practice thank you, you get warm up before you start don't you?

 

[Michael Little]

I think the general gist is probably not so much giving the women 8 pins, but moreso how to attract better tournament numbers. I see not many have replied to Deano's post in the main forum.

I would be interested tho in bowling a women's tournament with minus 8 pins, that could be interesting, might help boost their numbers as Andrew suggested.

 

[Scotty R]

Every pattern SHOULD be playable in every centre an on every surface. It will just alter how it plays. Tokyo at innisfail will play differently to Tokyo at caboolture, which will play differently to Tokyo at rooty hill, which will play differently to Tokyo at red rock.

Surely it will just require common sense on the bowlers part to figure out how to play the lanes to score the best....

I think what robbie is getting at is how the condition plays on the lanes could be havoc. Could be wrong though

There is only one thing worst than coming up with a S*&T idea Scotty R and thats is, coming up with a S&*T idea and running with it for a year while it does irreversible damage! I believe for every 1 female you may gain and i say MAY gain, you will definitely lose 3 male fringe bowlers. Once again i ask, who is looking after the interest of the bowlers who make up the majority of the price fund?

Maybe it isn't the best idea but rather than just pointing out the negatives how about suggesting an alternative solution to the decline in the ladies numbers. Everyone has a different view and I'm respectful of that but I don't see the point in bagging something if you're not going to even suggest a different strategy to the problem the tba are trying to fix.

 

[Dougy]

For me and only IMO the 8 pins comes under this rule
OFFENCE 501 ATTEMPTING TO GAIN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE
I do see alot of good and bad points with everyones post. We have our 1st Gold Coast touny after many years coming up this year and we will not have the 8 pins start.

 

[Mistagear]

If woman can bowl 308, why can't males ? It's not equal or fair... do you get it yet ?
Forget whether it boosts numbers that's not the point. It should not be done if it's unfair...simple......... and likely illegal under Anti Discrimination Laws anyhow
Seems to me there has already been an example of a female bowling beyond the maximum any male can score in one of these tournaments, try arguing that is fair

 

[Docta]

The TBA is the governing body, they should be coming up with the ideas thats what they get paid for, but wait...they wont even return the call for bowler who needs help to run the second biggest paying tournament in Australia.They collect the registration fees, this money is meant to go towards bettering the sport. I don't see it, what are we getting for our hard earned?. How about paying for coaches to coach for free for 1-2 hrs on a weekend to help league bowlers getter better and possibly move into the tournament cycle. I would really like to know how much the TBA is generating from compulsory registration and how and where is this money allocated?

 

[Docta]

good for you Dougy for not running the 8 pin rule.
Mistagear...i could not have put it better myself.

 

[Scotty R]

Yes that' correct. They do get paid for it and guess what they put an idea to practice. If they had a better idea I'm sure they would have tested it first hence why I say don't knock something unless you have something better. Time will tell on whether it succeeds or fails

 

[philby]

Would have been interesting giving Cara 8 pins a game when she dominated the AO. She would have won by 400 pins instead of 200.

 

[gwhiting]

What started out as an interesting thread has turned into a TBA kicking exercise. Why don't you guys go to the next AGM and voice your concerns. I am sure the TBA can advise of the date and location.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

Would have been interesting giving Cara 8 pins a game when she dominated the AO. She would have won by 400 pins instead of 200.

Yes, but after her first win, she would have lost the 8 pin advantage so she would have gone back to competing at scratch anyway, so that point becomes moot.

I personally feel that the 8 pin bonus for women is not a bad thing. Indeed i believe it is needed for Seniors tournaments in order to make the payouts more value for money. As they currently stand, the Seniors events do not payout very well, partly because the womens entry numbers are quite low and the entry fees/sponsorship has to be skewed towards the womens payouts in order to make them at least half reasonable. Indeed i would be quite happy to have the seniors women spotted 10 pins if it helped entries and the prizefund.

OK, have at me!!!!!

 

[RobbieB]

Matt, you can't be that naive lol and I practice thank you, you get warm up before you start don't you?

LOL, Mick you beat me to it. Matt how are the short patterns going to play on lanes that have had a 10-10 ditch for years? The patterns are designed to push bowlers into specific areas, and if the surface of that part of the lane has been destroyed it won't be playable.

 

[Scotty R]

I guess the other thing that should be thought about is payouts further down the ladder. Take into consideration the numbers from last year for an event and let's assume that roughly the same number of male bowlers show up plus 20 odd females enter into that pool. So then the fringe bowlers that might miss making the first cut are still getting something back. It's one thing I certainly agree with docta on that all must be looked after.

Just a thought