world-bowling-group-to-explore-alternative-scoring system

[jimcross]

Dear oh dear. Steve, if you and Peter believe what you say about bowling's future, somebody needs to put forward strongly, the arguements and facts which will refute your dismal forcasts.
So, I've decided to do just that.....................................be with you in a minute.............Damm!! Can't think of any

 

[Mistagear]

http://news.pba.com/post/2014/10/23...ing-World-Bowling-Tour-Finals-at-WSOB-VI.aspx

A copy of my XGB12Gauge"Shotgun" System
Well, looks like Bowling wins and I lose, thanks for coming

 

[Roysa]

http://news.pba.com/post/2014/10/23...ing-World-Bowling-Tour-Finals-at-WSOB-VI.aspx

A copy of my XGB12Gauge"Shotgun" System
Well, looks like Bowling wins and I lose, thanks for coming

"The experimental scoring system for competitive bowling is the result of the work done by an all-star panel of international bowling experts, including World Bowling leaders, athletes, coaches, news media and commercial bowling industry executives."

I thought this Panel of all stars called for submissions.... am i wrong Pete?

 

[Mistagear]

Correct, and I did submit a proposal for the good of Bowling, but asked them to consider the investment I had already made. They have made it near impossible for me to now re-coup what I have spent on this project

 

[Mistagear]

I should say, my idea was much more extensive concept, to change bowling from league level to international level. I spent a long time researching psychology papers/publications in relation to what drives people to pursue sports and what attracts fans to a sport, then developed a plan to turn the sport into a more attractive package for competitors as well as create a format to attract spectators and fans. So far they are disclosing only the tip of the iceberg as a trial to gauge people's reactions.
They stopped talking once I gave them what was needed, but I knew from the start I left myself open to this scenario, I've dropped a bundle on this project

 

[amagill]

You didn't speak with a patent lawyer at all Pete? If I were investing a sum of money into an idea like this, I would've sought advice from an Intellectual Property Lawyer, to see how I could prevent someone else ripping off my idea.

 

[RobbieB]

IANAL, but...
You can't patent an idea. The best you can do with game design is to copyright the rules and trademark the name and significant designs. And copyright is a very specific form of protecion, if someone rewrites the rules to the same effect you are generally SOL.
Yes, it sucks.

 

[amagill]

Fair enough Robbie, I'm no Intellectual Property Lawyer, but I certainly would've spoken with one if this were my idea & scoring system. Has to be some way you can protect your own ideas.

 

[Mistagear]

Fair enough Robbie, I'm no Intellectual Property Lawyer, but I certainly would've spoken with one if this were my idea & scoring system. Has to be some way you can protect your own ideas.

Patent Lawyer was consulted, as Robbie stated, it's difficult to prevent someone basically copying an idea and using it.
My only protection would have been having the product established as market leader to beat everyone else to it.
Anyhow, discussions continue with various parties, see what develops

 

[bluey]

A serious question re this new system you speak of, how would handicaps be gauged? Is this system for just top level match play environments or totally across the board?

 

[Mistagear]

A serious question re this new system you speak of, how would handicaps be gauged? Is this system for just top level match play environments or totally across the board?

Hi Bluey,
My system is graded (no handicap) Grading based on combination of 1st ball strike % and a for/against points basis.
I wont bore you with a long explanation, but lack of graded competition from entry level into the sport and onwards, is one of the reasons why many people fail to become dedicated to the sport as they do with other sports. Other psychological drivers as well.

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Hi everyone,
Just to get a point across, no one copied anything. In fact there were at least 3 or 4 submissions similar to Peter's. Seems he is not the only one in the world on same track, of a shot for shot concept. After talking with Peter I am quite aware of his passion and I agree in many ideas that he has put to me.
I was really surprised just how many different scoring concepts were presented.
In fact another aussie had a very similar concept to the one that will be tested. His was a 20 frame game, but I guess many felt that 12 kept it closer to the norm.
This is the first phase of a long testing program. As we have seen with XgamesBowling, I personally think this type of head to head play brings a totally different feel with each shot being more involved in the match. It also brings in a very important concept that golf had and we needed...picking up the ball and shaking your opponents had when you cannot win.

Finally, it might appear that we are well and truly past our chance at the olympics. BUT bowling has been given a lifeline from the IOC that they wish to add at least 5-7 completely new sports in 2024. Bowling is on a short list of sports that have been given a chance to showcase themselves.
World Bowling is investigating not only scoring, but formats that would give the sport a chance to be on the biggest stage.
and Why? I am sure their dealings with IOC members over the last 4 years has given them the reasons why to at least try something.

 

[Mistagear]

Andrew,
For the record,
The 12 frame point scoring, which I call 12Gauge Shootout was originally discussed with Computerscore Pty Ltd as far back as 2002/3. It is one of a 3 pronged approach to alternate scoring systems I have tested and used since that time.
Considering the people I had talked to both in Aust and USA, including ABPA, USBC, PBA, BPAA, Qubica, Brunswick, Bowlmor AMF,etc all just prior to the World Bowling announcement, then the submission I made to assist the process after. I will continue to call it a copy of my system.

It's a pity the 12 frame system has been used, whilst it may suit a TV format, it is not a system which will bring sustainable increase in the base line numbers of competitors to the sport.
A more complete, match based system has far greater potential to fix the broader sport, and should have been showcased in preference as a solution to the decline in the overall numbers of bowling competitors, rather than focusing on satisfying peoples egotistical desire to be official representatives of an Olympic Sport.

Being included in the Olympics may influence a very small minority of potential competitors and does not necessarily make the sport significantly more popular, however,Focusing on satisfying the majority of bowling competitors needs should be the only goal, if we want to reverse the multi-decade decline.

 

[amagill]

Pete, if bowling does eventually get into the Olympics. There will be millions upon millions of people watching. If you think that won't encourage at least some people to go out & give bowling go, then you have blinkers on. The more people watch bowling on TV, especially in something like the Olympics, the more people will want to try it. That much has been proven with many other sports in the past.

 

[Mistagear]

Retaining and growing numbers in your sport is totally different to people trying it. (we have bled millions of people who have tried it, then left)
Sure if you fix whats wrong first, then when people come to try after watching on TV, you have a better chance to grow numbers.
Focus on the fix first, that should be Administrators goal and if they did, the Olympic thing would be easier to achieve anyhow.
I'm talking what THE priority should be

 

[jimcross]

All of this only goes to prove, Peter, that investing time - money - whatever, instead of lying in the sun, or smelling flowers, or buying the cheapest 'first drill', strike-in-a-box ball that you can find, is a far,far better thing you do than try to improve the sport.

By The Way, I remember talking to you in 2002 / 3 about your ideas at the time you were talking to Computershare. It's been a long time, mate.

 

[steve jones]

Andrew - whilst I hold serious concerns that the money necessary to drive a serious push for bowling to gain entry as a full medal sport with the IOC is no longer available [I know what it cost in the 80's and early 90's - a staggering sum - and the sports landscape has changed significantly since then] - I do see one certain upside. If any of the four US cities of Boston, LA, Washington and San Francisco [all are keen to bid] wins the right to host the 2024 games - then bowling has some hope. Assuming the winning city get's behind the push for entry. Host cities as you know have certain advantages in selecting sports waiting for endorsement. It would be hoped of course however that baseball is a medal sports before 2024 - or else one would expect any US support would be in that direction - and not to bowling.

Mind you the "softening" of the sports admittance eligibility still has to be passed at this December's IOC meeting........I would think it unlikely not to be however.

And Peter - I enjoy your writings and clearly you have a good mind dedicated to the betterment of the sport - although we would agree to disagree on some matters - but that's only to be expected - I can't accept your assumption that bowling's entry to some future games as a full medal sport would not be extremely positive. I know the upside that came about as a result of the sports Commonwealth games appearance. But I do take your point that we need to "hang on" to whatever numbers come our way - and diversity [of scoring in this case] will/should help that reality.

 

[Mistagear]

Steve,
We are talking 2024 at earliest, right ?
I HAVE NO DOUBTS, inclusion in the Olympics would be a boost,but how much smaller might our sport be by 2024 ?
Focus needs to be laser sharp on fixing the sport NOW, not pie in the sky 2024.
Remember Olympic inclusion was being talked about in the early 1960s.... How much has our sport declined since then ?
Fix the decline first and foremost, make the sport viable and sustainable, then look at things like Olympics.

 

[steve jones]

The history of bowling's Olympic dream is well known to me Peter - I spent a considerable time hands-on with the project in fact.The scoring matter is not something I know about other than for what I read from time to time both here and in correspondence from friends from overseas, so you will appreciate my lack of formal awareness. Rest assured though that should bowling ever become an Olympic event - it's profile will increase [and with that so too will it's popularity] immeasurably..be it in 2024, sooner or later. Should an adjustment to the scoring procedure have the same impact - or any positive impact, I would applaud it as well. I can't estimate the outcome of one - but I can, with absolute confidence, about the other.

 

[Mistagear]

People in this sport need to collectively look for a solution to declining numbers now, pinning hopes on a solution that may or may not materialize in 10yrs time is foolhardy. I dont care how good that distant carrot may seem. For bowling, which currently relies on 3rd party business for it's existence, the chances these currently decaying businesses still exist by then are slim.
For every moment taken talking about the Olympic dream,somewhere in the world another person becomes an ex-bowler. Instead, lets talk about how we stop them from leaving , before it's too late.

Has anyone noticed how few people are around total bowling compared to 10yrs ago. Fast forward another 10yrs and everyone will be gone.