Why wont they change it?

[griggsy]

I like the others agree with slats belmo and jez. those guys will always be the top runners of the sport in tourns because they have done the work and know that they can bowl, not that they think they can bowl because they can average high on a house shot, I know myself because I have even made the mistake of thinking I was able to give it a decent run on the minaland on harder condition, but thankfully the conditions over there have proven me otherwise and have inspired me to train harder and work on my game more. the next tournement you go to just sit and watch the likes of belmo brando jez matto zennie even sofia and look how regularly they can repeat a shot, not just look at how many times they can hit their arrow or dot but look at the break point fellas how many times do they get the ball to hit the same break point?? justa bout 95% of the time, that is why they are up there, and also because they have had the experience on the hard conditions but they KNOW how to adjust, all i can say is go back home and practice usign something that doesn't give you 20 boards of error and practice scoring with that, otherwise don't complain because it's never the conditions it's the bowlers and I am now the first to admit that after realising what I have from bowling the youth circuit. now this post isn't a malicious attack, just my opinion and my voice on what I have learnt in the short 6 months I have been bowling on the mainland.

 

[BELMO]

Everyone says how good all the top bowlers are cos they can adjust bla bla bla.... im sure alot of people could bowl as good as them if they had 20 balls, one for every condition... they r good, thats why they are sponsored but u gotta admit, if they had 2 strike balls...... and one spare they wouldnt be averaging 230 on a tough condition...

Anyway, you need 20 balls, rich parents alot of time and no job to bowl awsome, thats what i think it comes down to...
Think of a really good bowler that doesnt have atleast one of those......

Now normally im not a mean person....but ill make an exception..... THATS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD, Please before you post re-read what your write.

And just to make you feel even worse the last comment you made in the quote above....... everyone in a national team works, hasnt got 20 balls, hasnt "rich" parents and i can assure you we all dont have alot of time (the time we have are spent doing uni, extra hours work so we can pay for our bowling and/or helping at a bowl someway)....seems to me someone is sour because they want respect given not earnt......well LOZZ we will on a place called Earth, doesn't happen like you want here. SORRY TO DISAPPOINT YOU.

If this is the kind of mentallity from todays youth......no wonder youth and jnr bowling in australia is hurting!

Yours truly

Jason Belmonte

 

[griggsy]

all I'll say is look at cara honeychurch, she will show any one that she can score well on any condition without the aid of brand new balls or twenty balls, and proof of this 2002 aus open, she won using an amf bullwhip or a whiplash I don't remember which one.

 

[GeorgeF]

This has certainly made for some interesting reading. The 3 to 1 ratio was implemented to improve the skill level of our bowlers and prepare them for conditions they might face overseas. It's good TBA hve implemented this program, it actually is good for bowling and creates a decent pathway for our up and coming bowlers who want to represent their country overseas.

The problem is all these 220 avg youth bowlers killing it in their wall leagues are struggling when faced with a test of skill and accuracy. They go to a tournament, avg 180 and crack the sooks about conditions being crap.

The conditions no matter what they are never stopped the winner winning so not surprisingly everyone who bowls has the cance of winning the tournament!

If you dont like the conditions

i. give up bowling

OR

ii. the sensible thing to do is to go down to your local centre or a nearby centre, get a coach or a better bowler than you, ask the staff to lay tougher patterns so you can increase your skill level, learn and improve. Practise, practise and when your done, practise some more!

 

[griggsy]

even if the centre won't put down harder conditions due to money constraints or lack of interest(what ever the case is) you can still work on your game by emulating a hard condition by:

go down to your centre and play soem games but use your spare ball or one that goes very straight with little forgiveness. now practice shooting a line that you can score on that with, cause I knwo for one if you use a plastic ball and try to swing it, it ain't gonna come back, and the times it hits pocket it will leave alot of pins standing shot after shot, now if you can go and score(not by revving the spare ball up more but by bowling your normal game) with a plastic ball you will find that your skills of accuracy in release and swing etc are improving, it isn't going to happen straight away but I tell you now it will work, it teaches you what your problem areas are. go down to your local centre(s) and do that regularly you will find that you will soon enough start to make back that money you pay to enter tournements without the aid of "twenty balls and a rich family".
give it a go before dismissing it because it has worked for me, not only will it improve your physical game but it will build your mental toughness too which is what is the key in today's game. Then when you go to these tournements with the 3:1 ratio you will see it isn't as hard it seems. I am using this way of practicing because hell I ain't that good yet and need something to challenge me and make me strive to reach the heights of these top bowlers. It does work.

 

[~Mrs STORM~]

well said griggsy!

 

[Tiger]

Just a little thing, perhaps expanding somewhat on what Jason has said there, a really good way to learn accuracy and being able to make controlled shots by way of being disciplined in your approach etc would be to take your resins etc - put them all back in the bag.

Grab a comfortable fitting houseball of the rack, go in when there's mass carry down and try shooting 190's on it.
You will over time learn, that there is no real area at all, spares are very important, as is hitting that target consistantly.

I did this over summer, as I usually started work very late at night or in the middle of the night, so I would bowl before or after my shift just grabbing the nearest 10lb ball of the rack, with conventional grip (and wearing those "fat cat slippers" - house shoes) and seeing if I could simply shoot 190's.
I found it helped me regain a lot of my accuracy I felt I'd lost - and managed to average around 205 for about 40-50 games.
Best 3-game set I rolled was 671 - and to be honest, that gave me more satisfaction than anything I'd bowled in years.
That will help you to learn how to play tighter lanes - give it try, It will take some getting used to, but you you'll get a lot of benefit from it :wink:
All the best.

 

[Craiggles]

I'm quite surprised at Lozz's second post, particularly the slur on the higher-end bowlers, who are not only the benchmark of bowling today but also many of them are ambassadors of the sport we love. Instead of trying to criticise them, surely we should be praising their efforts, and trying to learn a thing or two off them? Also, its not what equipment you have, necessarily, but how you use it. There's no use having 5 or 6 bowling balls if you don't know where to put any of them.

Anyway, my main point is that no condition is hard if you adjust to what has been set out. Of course, it will never be possible to bowl the same score with the same line in oily and dry lanes. The bowlers who think a lot about where to move and when to move, and who have previous experience of such conditions are going to have the advantage. That's not something you can blame a bowler for, in fact they should be praised for being well-prepared. Admittedly I haven't thought of half of the things suggested here, such as asking the bowl to put down a certain condition for my practice games, and its a great idea!

Instead of complaining about lane conditions that doesn't suit someone, I would agree to confront the problem head on in practice. Who wins a battle by only dodging their adversary?

 

[bad_ass]

Hey craig
u say to go head on with the lanes in practice how r we ment to do that when they only have the 3:1 in tounries so we get no practice on it at all untill the day of tournie's :?:

 

[duff_star]

hey Lozz

i was at Blacktown..........it was very tough........im not doing this to have a go at u but I pay for all my bowling, i have an avg paid job, i travelled from qld to come second last........i train twice a wk and bowl two four game leagues........plus tournies then i also am doing a tafe and uni course part time.......life is tough but if u want to improve u do need to put in the time and ppl who say they dont have the time obviously dont have the time to improve......and currently i only use two balls and most times either one will work.......u just have to practise

i bowled our state champs today and because i havent bowled in two wks it showed........yet lately i have improved my avg by twenty pins or so.......coz of practise and hopefully one day practise will make perfect and i get that 300

if u do find time to practise go to ur home centre and most will let u just train with no pins etc for nothing and i have seen u bowl in the past and u can b a good bowler.........try cheer up and let a bad experience pass u by

take care and hope to see u at under 23 SA cup

 

[duff_star]

hey Lozz

i was at Blacktown..........it was very tough........im not doing this to have a go at u but I pay for all my bowling, i have an avg paid job, i travelled from qld to come second last........i train twice a wk and bowl two four game leagues........plus tournies then i also am doing a tafe and uni course part time.......life is tough but if u want to improve u do need to put in the time and ppl who say they dont have the time obviously dont have the time to improve......and currently i only use two balls and most times either one will work.......u just have to practise

i bowled our state champs today and because i havent bowled in two wks it showed........yet lately i have improved my avg by twenty pins or so.......coz of practise and hopefully one day practise will make perfect and i get that 300

if u do find time to practise go to ur home centre and most will let u just train with no pins etc for nothing and i have seen u bowl in the past and u can b a good bowler.........try cheer up and let a bad experience pass u by

take care and hope to see u at under 23 SA cup

 

[Craiggles]

Hey Troy, all you have to do is look at the previous posts in this thread, and I assure you that you could find potential solutions to the issue. Perhaps I didn't read some of the posts 100% correctly, but some bowlers did suggest asking the centers to put different oil patterns down so when they encountered such conditions in the future, they wouldn't be so blown away. I'm not sure if they meant 3:1, specifically, perhaps I need to be clarified on that.

 

[Jez]

Hopefully this will put an end to this arguement in one word

"Warrawong"

That is right anyone who bowled in the South Coast Open this weekend or saw the scores would have seen howgood we are over here in Oz.. i mean we should also be on the PBA with what was averaged this weekend

But seriously those scores are not good for the game.. I averged 231 and came 7th and was never in the running for top three. I mean i have thrown the ball alot better on days and averaged 210.

This is not a slur on Belmo(who won the tournment) but he will tell anyone that he or no one should average 248 over 15 games.

You can ask anyone who was bowling and they will tell you it was not good bowling on that.

Three good things came from that pattern.

1. We finsihed early coz every only bowled one shot
2. AMF has to pay out 6 x $300 for the perfect games bowled (hopefully this will stop it happening again)
3. My good friend Belmo got 2 300's and won the tournment to clean up.

 

[micky_macca]

Every from a bystanders view, those lanes were about as dirt easy as you can get, the 300's were still however earnt, the best bowlers on the day still won with a showcase of pure power!

Everyone left Warrawong a less accurate bowler I presume!

Later

 

[Craiggles]

I must admit that I had to wonder what happened when Shaun ended up with a 215 average and yet finished only 26th yesterday, I was genuinely shocked to hear it.

I take it that Belmo is leaving Warrawong a rich man today after his win and two 300's? :wink:

 

[Lozz ('',)]

Ok ok, i know what i said in my last post was stupid, i think i was just annoyd because people wernt understanding what i was trying to say.... i should have worded it better....
I would love to be able to go to s.a and bowl and brisbane and that but i dont have the time to be flying around the country... If I went up to my mum and said "can i try and get the weekend off to bowl in south australia she would laugh at me, she supports me ALOT but i wouldnt blame her. I would really like to bowl as good as jason etc, but when your trying to get a career it just doesnt happen that easily, plus how can you get to the bowl whe no one can take you and you dont have a car plus theres no bus??? my parents work too so i can bowl. Im only bowling shield this yr because its so close.
Next yr ill be at tafe with a full time job, ill be greatful that i can bowl league.
I was never trying to complain about anything, and i never thought what i said would get this much feedback. I was just giving my opinion and hoping that someone could give me some help etc, and i thank everyone who did.
And to jess, im sorry but its easier for you, just look at your dad and you dont work yet. You even said to me at blacktown..."I love the 3:1 condition, my dad puts it down for me all the time", thats really good, but not everyone has a dad that can do that.
I will try to ask frawls(when he's there) if he can put it down for me.
Just look at the 1st page of the topic and what trent cage said, thats pretty much what i wanted to say.

Sorry.

 

[BELMO]

"warrawong" just confirmed my point of view about conditions.....im sorry to those that dont like the harder conditions but its the only way to get better.
Missing your mark by more than the width of a bowling ball and still strike only means "BAD HABITS" find their way into your game and when you come to a condition where your not allowed to miss.....those bad habits are the things that let you down.
Im sure i have a few habits now that i didnt have before i played south coast.

But in saying that just cause the scores were very high, didnt make the tournament any easier to win.... when you have a guy behind you shooting 1114 for 4 (mick Little) you dont want to be missing.

Three good things came from that pattern.

1. We finsihed early coz every only bowled one shot
2. AMF has to pay out 6 x $300 for the perfect games bowled (hopefully this will stop it happening again)
3. My good friend Belmo got 2 300's and won the tournment to clean up.

Jez's post is how all top class bowlers think....and i agree with him about the 3 good things that came out of the tournament...especially the 3rd point

Belmo

 

[spoon]

Congrats Belmo on your win on the weekend.
Doesnt matter if the lanes are easy or hard, you are still going to get your best bowlers winning at the end of the day.
As Belmo said, when you have an area you get into bad habbits of aiming at an area, in which you dont become as accurate.
Congrats to all those who shot 300's as well.

 

[-*SLATS*-]

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul!- (Billy Madison)

 

[willey]

Why wont they change it?
As someone who has been putting oil on lanes since the 1960s I can see the fors and against of increased oil patterns.
First I will give you a little history of oiling techniques used in Sydney AMF centres and some private centres:
Up untill 1971-1972 all centres would spray oil on by hand than buff with a floor buffer,(no lane the same no matter how good you were).Than we were instructed to use a pad method i.e;oil soaked towel dragged up lane one side back the other side,this sometimes created a difference at each end of the house because pads were stacked on top of each other.From 1978 onwards centres began to recieve automatic lane oiling machines,great, now we could put down a very consistant pattern,(if you knew how to use the machine,most did not).From 1978 till 1989 lane cleaning was haphazad or near non existant in many centres,we used keys as they were called some were properly built some were poor copies that did not work well and the cleaning programs were from every day in some centres to once a week in others.About this time companys like Century were discovering that to get high scores the backend of the lane has to be squeeky clean,not always possible with the equipment we were using.Along comes the first of the spray and vacuum lane strippers from 1990 on,gee this does a good job but alas they were terrible for creating a reverse block by the variation of their spray patterns.Than as far as AMF were concerned in 1991 out comes the Century Gemini a machine that washes the lane and oils at the same time this machine was great in that it evenly washed the lane,now we started to see some scores,in my case only the second 300 game in any centre I worked in,eventually we had 11 - 300 games in the next 7 years.
Now this was all done without a WALL, it was illegel to put a wall on a lane in Australia, as the than ATBC brought out rules that limited the amount of units of oil you could increase across the lane.This rule has been lost in time but at no time have I seen it abolished only the people who implemented it have all but vanished. At no time has any centre I worked in had a wall untill we got the new HVO SUMMIT oiling machines which were built to creat a wall.
A wall is not needed to create high scores,in fact the first and second 900 series bowled were on LEGENDS lane oil and if they followed Legends oil pattern techniques there would have been no wall,Legends says you dont need them,you adjust the break point by the length and taper of the pattern.
So what does all this mean:
1.Up untill 1991 the lanes were not conducive to high scores,but at times it did happen.
2.Higher scores were realy starting to happen from 1991
3.The urethane and reactive urethane bowling balls started to increase the scoring by increasing entry angles into the pins(this also started a decline in scoring for a couple of years untill oil companys were able to produce oils to stand up to sponges rolling over the lanes)
4.With the synthetic lane surfaces now becoming more prevalent and lane oil able to last longer,the scores can only get higher.
Now is Belmo shooting 248 avg.not real.This has been a slow process to get to this point in time,I can asure you he would not have bowled that average 20 years ago even if he went back in a time machine and took his reactive balls with him,why because the lanes were not conducive to high scoring.
So Warrawong lanes are too easy,I can tell the Head mechanic Karl has been there for over 20 years and he knows his stuff about lanes,you do not get these scores through accident,this is all the past coming together.
Now to the matter at hand WHY DONT THEY CHANGE THEM how much oil can a centre put on a lane before the regular customer with his polyester ball (about 90% of all league bowlers)finds he can't hook it,no angle of entry no scores no improvement,he gives up bowling. he may as well if some people have thier way.Think back to when you all started bowling,were you able to hook the ball,no,you had to learn,now what if you had to learn to crank before you could hook it, think about it most bowlers still can't now.
Another thing to remember a lot of centres start having a lot of trouble if too much oil is put on the lanes,many are on the limit now,machine stoppages and increased ball damage will result.
If you get through all this thanks for reading its been a long journey with no instruction manual only 20-20 hindsight.
willey.