Why is Tournament Bowling no longer a big deal?

[wchester]

True, it's a sad day for the Australian scratch bowling scene.

Who is to blame?..Your guess is as good as mine. Here are just a couple of ideas of the top of my head ( actually, I've given some serious thought to these)

1) Cost of entry has now escalated above a reasonable level. What we should be after is a shorter format. Less games means a lower entry fee!

2) Gone are the days of bowling just because you enjoy the competition. It's all about money money money..Some bowlers want the prize fund to be top heavy. Others wish the cash line extended to the top 50% of the bowlers.Personally,I love the challenge!
The money only means I can afford to bowl more often. Then again, I'd love to bowl for $5,000 + every tournament. I might even decide its worth coming out of retirement for.
What do YOU want?

3) We have no male superstars to look up to. Sure, we have Cara to emulate, but who wants to grow up to be the next Cara..Maybe it's time for some of our bigger names to put up or shut up and go bowl the PBA Tour in the States. After all, you're nothing but a big fish in a little pond unless you beat the best!

4) Could AMF be to blame? Yes, they have done their best to put up thousands of dollars for a Super Six Tour but cancelling the Sydney tournament scheduled for Penrith the weekend on account of a lack of entries is a BAD idea. Is AMF going to reimburse all the bowlers for expenses? ie: Airfares, etc? Cancelling this tournament at the last second sucks! There is NEVER an excuse for doing that..repeat NEVER!

5) And lastly..the reason I have quit the tournament scene is simple. I can no longer maintain a top level of bowling over the long formats being used nowadays...And I'm not the only one!

These are but a few of the possible reasons for the downturn of scratch tournament bowling. What are your theories?

 

[Ian Nicholls]

Wayne

It is not a sad day for bowling!

In Victoria we learnt a couple of years ago that bowling is not just for the elite to make money.

Tournaments have to cater for all bowlers.

The Melbourne Cup now pays 1 in 2 on an entry fee of $275. At the Melbourne Cup you did not just get your bowling you also got all your drinks free for the weekend (including non-alcoholic) plus a spit roast on the final day.

This year we had 132 bowlers and the next tournament in 2 weeks at Warrnambool 76 entries again paying 1 in 2 ($100 entry fee for qualfying, $1500 first prize).

Why is that tournaments like the Melbourne Cup and Warrnambool Cup (3 hours from Melbourne) are sucessful?

In Victoria over the last few years we have failures, even this year but scratch tournaments have to attractive to more than the just top 20 or so bowlers that want to make a living out of bowling.

You have to take care of bowlers that average below 200

How many major tournaments this year that cost more than $200?

The bowler that cashes infrequently by this this stage of the year have runout of money for major tournaments

Warrnambool Cup is a social tournament, even if dont make the final you may cash and still enjoy the holiday weekend at the pubs etc.

See you at a tournament in 2003 ( or at Warrnambool or Canberra on December)

Ian Nicholls

 

[billy_gardiner]

It is my PERSONAL opinion that AMF has overpriced tournament bowling in this country. The super 6 in theory is a great idea but when you pay $300 entry, $300+ a/fare, accomodation, transport and food the WEEKEND has cost you $1000 and you have not even bowled a ball. So bsically you have to ask yourself am I good enough to run top 5 in this tournament? If the bowler has any doubt at all then they will not bowl it is simple maths.
I think if AMF want to get the bowlers back to their SUPER 6 then they have to show the bowlers that they are giving back to the bowlers. Melbourne Cup gets bowlers because of their FREEBY offer of drinks ALL weekend and a feed after, what does the super 6 offer some frozen spring rolls and post mix coke.
While I understand that AMF have to make money also, they do not have to make maximum profit EVERY weekend. Dropping game prices could offset the cost of a DECENT presentation. Maybe someone at AMF could try and find a major sponsor like they used to have for the South Pacific when it was at Bankstown and Streets or Pauls used to spopnsor it. Maybe they could contact one of the state tourism boards and see if they cant offer a free holiday to a certain state. even getting a company to sponsor finalist shirts.
Tournament bowling in this country will dwindle if AMF dont start to put something into it apart from a venue to hold a tournament, look at Ed Fleming lanes always pulls a crowd, Fairlanes is another, this is because these centres GIVE BACK TO THE BOWLERS and the bowlers in turn support the centres. Maybe just Maybe AMF could learn from these examples.

 

[RobbieB]

Well, if you look at Billys' numbers, dropping the entry to $100 would still leave you with an $800 weekend bill and stuff all in the prize fund.

If you look at the prize funds for the super 6 tourneys, they are paying out more in prizemoney than they are gettin in in total entry fees, so to say that AMF are not supporting the tournaments is a bit harsh.

One huge difference between now and 10 years ago is the equipment costs. To be able to compete with the sponsered guys and the ones with talent and deep pockets, you need to be buying a minimum of 3-5 balls a year. I can't afford that and travel costs too, so I only bowl in Queensland where the lanes are dry enough to get away with old equipment.

 

[bfcc]

i agree with billy on this tournaments have out priced themselves, what we need is to look at getting entry fees back down to around the $100 mark and pay $1000 for first . lets face it we are weekend bowlers not pro's and if you can make $1000 in a weekend you should be happy !!!

now i know i will not make any friends with the next comment but i think we need to do it.

lets get rid of sponsored bowlers!! if the ball companies want to sell there products let them do it by sponsoring tournaments so the bowling public will benefit not just a chosen few. i know the guys out there with sponorship have worked hard to get the sponsorship but if we end up with nothing to bowl in how long do u think u will keep the sponsor?? this will also help to get the fringe bowlers back who at the moment think that the sponsored bowler have too much advantage with new equipment. with balls costing $300-$400 each most guys are limited to what they can buy in a year. if we can make the playing field level we might just be able to encourage the fringe bowlers back.

as i said i expect some people to be angry with what i have said but i am trying to look at the big picture here and if this would help tournament bowling i think it is worth looking at.

 

[billy_gardiner]

I think that AMF should take a good long look at the tournament scene in Asia, ok there entry fee's are around $400 but when you bowl for $15000 and $800 for 24th plus the incentive of $50,000 - $100,00 for a 300 game then the bowlers see there is good reason to bowl. I am sure there is a company or group of companies that would sponsor bowling if it marketed right. CGU insurance has picked it up in Asia why cant we get something over here, would this mean that AMF would actually have to do something off its own back and not wait for it to happen.
As I said before the Asian tour picked up a decent sponsor because they marketed it and chased hard maybe AMF should do the same before the game totally dies.


Well the fish are bitting so I am off.

 

[micky_macca]

I'm not sure if im correct on this but if the super 6 had TV coverage wouldnt that make the world go round...

 

[The Ref]

To Mickey_macca : Not only would TV coverage be great it would help to attract sponsorship of some note.

I dont think that the tournaments in Asia have got it right either Bill.
Back in 93 when i bowled in the super classic in Singapore it cost about $500AUD. I ran 10th, which on those conditions back then was considered a pretty good result, and was rewarded with a mighty cheque of $1000 singapore dollars. Now considering the Airfare/Accomodation package was $1100- and the entry fee $500-, not to mention all the incidentals as well, i'd say that there is certainly not much value there either.
Yes they are on the right track with TV coverage and a good sponsor but they are still along way of the mark in the value for money stakes.
Lets face it, you have always needed to have plenty to be able to afford to bowl or be very confident in your own ability to make cuts and get your money back.
Its all a guessing game, you have to be able to guess what sort of condition they are going to put down and hopefully guess the right equipment to take with you.
I used to love to travel to tournaments because i loved to compete but as Billy said its nearly $1000 bucks to travel to these tounaments so its getting a little above peoples means.
I agree with Wayne, It is a sad day for Bowling because its pricing most of the people who love this game out of it.
Also, Its really good Ian that those 2 (TWO) Tournaments do so well, but thats 2 only. You do run them well and its a credit to you but remember the ATBA used to run 8 to 10 tournaments like that every year so dont be so quick to pat yourself on the back.
And finally to Jeff, generally sponsored bowlers have to be damn good to get a sponsorship so 9 times out of 10 they are going to be doing well in tournaments anyway so they would have the funds to buy new equipment. I really dont think its a major factor that we should be worried about.

All The Best
Rob T

 

[Shaun24]

I know sponsership seems like an easy option, but if you don't have T.V coverage at these events then sponser are going to look and go, Well what are we going to get out of this?

There isn't enough coverage of bowling in Aust for big companys to pour heaps of money into it.

It's hard, we have to do something to help bowling in Aust, but where do we start? Is sponsership and T.V coverage enough?

Shaun.

 

[GeorgeF]

I think the key maybe to look at the entry fees and maybe follow a system like the high rollers in the states. How many bowlers would fork out $80 at a chance of winning $5000?? I suspect a fair few.

If we keep the entry low it gives everyone a chance, yes there is the opportunity for multiple re-entries and there is an arguement that people can buy there way into the tournament but my opinion is that at the end of the day they are boosting the prizefund and they still need to get the scores on the board.

The prize payout is pretty top heavy but hey, if the whole event costs you $80 in entry fee only and you win $5000?? This solves 2 problems, high entry fees and keeping the payout high enough to pull the interstaters.

The only problem is, how are we going to fit it into our cramped tournament schedule and who is going to guarantee the $5000 if no one shows (which I don't think will happen). Anyway, something to think about.

 

[BUDDHA]

George,
The Garden City New Year Open will be held again in January 2003.
The dates have been set at 10,11,12 at Garden City Lanes.

Entry is $180. GUARANTEED 1ST PLACE is $4,000. Barry informs me there is over $18,000 total prize money available.

Entry forms are starting to go out now. Barry maybe a bit hard to contact as he is moving residence shortly, but try emailing him for more info.

Regards

John Wiffen
Toowoomba

 

[SNEEZY]

Yes, I agree with everyone on this post. Tournament bowling today is in a way overpriced. While inflation has played a big role in uping the price from what a tournament may have been priced 20 years ago, another thing that should be taken into account is the monetary value in each state as well as overseas. In each state and country, the monetary value is different. That would be the reason why a tournament in Melbourne may cost $275 as apposed to a tournament in Sydney or Queensland that may cost $300 or $350.
8) 8) 8)

In my opinion, AMF should look for sponsorship not only from bodies associated with bowling such as Ebonite, Storm, etc. They should also look for sponsorship from companies such as Motels, and Hotels so that for the people who have to travel from interstate are able to either get accomodation, food and drink at a cheaper or discount rate. Maybe AMF should offer packages for those wanting to enter a tournament such as that of the Super 6 which includes bowling fees, accomodation for 2/3 days etc. (Just a thought).
:idea: :idea: :idea:

Although TV coverage would do a lot for the game of Tenpin. I tend to believe that TV coverage would increase the price of a tournament a fare bit. I don't know how much it would cost but I do believe to secure a spot on a Television station to show bowling tournaments would be costly. In the end AMF would have to pay for this which means tournaments as well as league prices would go up. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that TV coverage would give the game a lot more exposure than it is currently getting. I'm just trying to say that it may result in prices increasing which would then lead to less people bowling as they can't afford it.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Tournament Bowling IS NOT overpriced these days when you consider the state of affairs 23 years ago when I started bowling.

Comparison
1980 Australian Hawaiian Invitational
Entry Fee - $200
1st - $2000
2nd - $1000
20th - $200 (final cut and cash spot)
paid 1 in approx 5

2002 South Pacific Classic
Entry Fee - $300
1st - $4000
2nd - $2500
16th - $700 (final cut spot)
30th - $300 (final cash spot)
paid 1 in 3

I use these as comarisons because they are tournaments of similar stature in their respective eras. Lets just look at the main diffeerences between the 1980 event and the 2002 event.....

1980 - entry fee $200
2002 - entry fee $300

Given the rate of inflation in that period, to keep pace, enrty fees would have risen at least 200% if not more meaning that the 2002 entry fee to keep pace would be abt $600 plus

1980 - 1st place $2000
2002 - 1st place $4000

I admit that the prizemoney hasnt kept pace with inflation, but with entry fees not doing so either you cant expect any better. Even so, 1st has doubled, while the entry fee has only increased 50%

1980 - last place in cut $200
2002 - last place in cut $700

Cutting in a major tournament these days now at least makes the tournament a viable proposition for the majority of players, even those travelling from interstate, whereas it never would have been in 1980.

1980 - Last place in the cash 20th (cut mark)
2002 - Last place in the cash 40th (24 places outside cut)

This indicates the cash pie has been divided much further down the field than it was in 1980 giving many more players a better oportunity to get something back from the tournament. You can get your entry back (or better) without even having to bowl matchplay so you can even go home a day early if possible.

1980 - Payout = 1 in approx 5
2002 - payout = 1 in 3

Lets look at this realistically. The entry fees have not risen to keep pace with inflation and the prizemoney has risen by a greater percentage than the entry fees. The cost of a tournament is a lesser proportion of the average wage than it was 23 years ago with a far greater chance of at least covering costs.

Bowlers quote the increased cost of equipment as a disincentive to bowling tournaments. This cost is offset by the fact that bowlers practice a LOT less than they used to.

I hear people saying "Well there a lot more events to bowl in now". That is correct, but remember there arent any more SPC centre roll offs any more and they used to be expensive if you lived in NSW and had to try to win your way in to the SPC. I know of a few South Australian bowlers who used to travel to Victoria to bowl centre finals in order to make the SPC in those days (and later) til the roll off system was no longer deemed viable.

These are the FACTS and they show that tournaments are financially more viable for the bowlers than they were 23 years ago. If they are overpriced now, then they were far worse before.

 

[craig]

2 major factors to why its dead

lineage has gone up, and sponsorship has gone down, but the entry remains the same to the times

equipment and the demand of equipment to be successful has gone crazy

1970 you fronted with an up market manhattan rubber in any condition

1980 a lt-48 and a yellow dot (which you had owned for 10 years)

1990 a blue hammer, pearl hammer, red hammer and a black hammer which you had owned for 5 years)

2000 you rocked up with the complete storm range, knowing that in 6 - 12 months they would probably be no good.

 

[steve_jones]

Craig,

Let me correct you if I may - this is simply too good an opportunity to miss!

"2000 you rocked-up [is it one word or two?] with the complete Storm range [you should have at least given them the courtesy of a capital "S"] knowing that NOW they would be no good [NO probably about it!]".

Also, and I simply can't resist this one, I just love the post in this stream that noted that TV exposure for bowling would be no good because it would increase the cost of tournaments - I mean this just about says all that needs to be said as to why tournament bowling in Australia is largely in the toilet! It is without question the most priceless comment I have read in years.

It is without question true - that in the land of the blind the one eyed man is King!

Steve Jones

 

[SNEEZY]

Steve I'm glad you like my post!!!

It is true though, if only there was a way to gain TV coverage without increasing the cost of bowling.

 

[Shaun24]

See the thing with T.V coverage is that is should leave the cost the same to us the bowler, all it does is intice more coperate backing.
With more coperate backing the prize pool will go up with out the bowler paying for it.

That is the theory anyway. Not sure if it works.

 

[craig]

hey jonesy, thanx for the grammar lesson :wink:

whilst your contributing to the forum why dont you explain to all these guys what it is like to run a successfully tournament organisation, seeing your success you had with the VCBA / ATBA

cheers

 

[steve_jones]

Firstly to Craig, Shaun and Sneezy [Doc, Happy, Bashful, etc] thx for taking my post in the right spirit - appreciate it. To my friends at Storm [and I have a few] - your product is actually damn fine [well....mostly] - so no hard feelings.

Running a successful bowling organisation is 20% application and 80% persperation - no secret there. You also need to have luck on your side - but hard work is a substitute for luck..so you generally get what you put in. We had a great team of people over the years we ran the organisations well.....we also had a good line of people who took over after one or two of us found other things to do, so the momentum was maintained [increased probably is more accurate]. But the real sucess was that we tried things - added a lot of ideas/concepts that at the time were either new [some were] - or [as most things actually are] - old ideas that were modified marginally and these proved to be timely. Communication was also a key - people knew what was going on and we ensured all members were informed - not easy to do in the pre-email/web days - now it would be a dream to keep people up to date [up to date people are motivated people - are generally great supporters and participate more often than not - no magic, just old fashioned common sense].

But above all else - we enjoyed it. Had a great time - sure it was hard work, but we really loved seeing successful tournaments start and finish and then we would do it all over again. I mean the Australian Open had been a dead title for years [how could that be allowed to happen?] so we kick-started it at Keon Park with support from Steve Mackie [who was then at AMF] - and away it went. Another example, of many events I could comment about space and time permitting - the Venuto Cup was a great tournament because it had tradition - and people like Ray Taylor. Taylor propped that event up for years out of his own pocket - people like Ray are a rare breed, rare even then but more so now I guess [see - luck plays a part - we were "lucky" to have Ray around for this particular event].

Also - and critically - consider the people who were involved over the years [and I mean from the last 70's and I really focus here on Victoria - with a few obvious exceptions] - Ed Fleming, Alf Emerson, Ray Taylor, Bob Hinton and Jim Best and Ken Gausden at AMF were a great help - Mackie was sensational and Bob Cook was and is a legend - and there were many more. Add to this the hands-on Organisation people like Richard Freobel, Mike Rollo, Alan Burge, Bill Wambeek, Julie Bull, Phil Brook, Ray Hodge, Di Jones, Alan Hill, Animal [Peter ? - who I think is the "Pedro" who posts on this site regularly] - I mean I will insult people now because I have left off many, many names - but all these people and dozens more dedicated time, sweat and effort into making the tournaments [and the Organisation] work - and the key - we had fun.

I don't want to say that there are no longer people around with this type of motivation and dedication - because that's rubbish - there are many people out there who could probably do a better job now than was done in the past with the VCBA/ATBA - or something along similar lines. They just need a kick start - and then they need support - YOUR support. Not half-baked go with it whilst it's running OK support - that's no good, if a tournament organisation is to work, it needs 100% support when it's good and [more so] when it's not so good.

I'll be in Canberra for the Brunswick Cup - if anyone want's to talk about this just grab me by the ear and we'll talk. I'm happy to do what I can to help - but I won't do the leg work any longer, this type of effort needs new and younger blood.

Steve Jones

 

[bworld]

Steve,
I couldn't have said it better, then again I wouldn't have said it in such a short sentence. Pedro is in fact Peter Coburn State Manager for TBA in Victoria. Peter (Animul) Riley is around but does not bowl these days he is involved with greyhounds.

See you in December.
Regards, Patrick Birtig