WERRIBEE CUP 2005
- Thread starter Werribee
- Start date
jockey
Member
Edi
As I have to work late Saturday night I won't be able to bowl A Squad. Please remove me from the list. If a spot opens up in B Squad please let me know. You can email me on t.silva@sga.edu.au
As I have to work late Saturday night I won't be able to bowl A Squad. Please remove me from the list. If a spot opens up in B Squad please let me know. You can email me on t.silva@sga.edu.au
Werribee
Werribee
LATEST SQUAD UPDATE
FINAL SQUAD LISTING FOR WERRIBEE CUP.
SQUAD A
NAME
1 JUDY WRIGHT
2 KIM LOBB
3 REBECCA ROBINSON
4 AARON REYNOLDS
5 ALAN BAMFORD
6 ALISTER MEDEL
7 BRIAN SHOW-YIN
8 CARL BARBARA
9 CHRISTIAN GAYLOR
10 CRAIG O'TOOLE
11 DAVE ANDREWS
12 DAVID ASHER
13 DAVID PORTO
14 GAVIN COX
15 GAVIN SCOTT
16 IAN COCKBURN
17 JOHN FRANCIS
18 LES UGLICK
19 MARK POTTS
20 MARK RALPH
21 MAX DE GROOT
22 MIKE GRIFFITHS
23 PAUL FRANCIS
24 PETER RALPH
25 RALPH HARFORD
26 RAY THOMPSON
27 ROD FRANCIS
28 SCOT LAW
29 SHANE VANHARTEN
30 STEVE MARTINALI
31 VI HUYNH
SQUAD B
NAME
1 BRIGITTA ARNOTT
2 CARLY ALLEN
3 JANE FINCH
4 JEANETTE KENT
5 JOANNE LAW
6 LARISSA PRIESTLEY
7 LISA NOTMAN
8 NATALIE PROKOPEC
9 TAMARA DARMENIA
10 TANYA STEELE
11 ANDREW JACKLIN
12 ANDREW THORPE
13 BRETT GEORGE
14 BRETT THOMAS
15 CHRIS MESAGNO
16 DOUG BEAR
17 EVERT BALLESTEROS
18 JOHN CONSTANINI
19 LANCE DYER
20 MATTHEW O'BRIEN
21 ONDREJ HEDI
22 PAUL BAST
23 PETER BASSETT
24 PETER BONNING
25 RUSSELL STOKELY
26 SEAN GOTHIE
27 SHANE MINEHAN
28 SHANE STAEHR
29 STEFAN PORTO
30 STEVE MALINA
31 STEVE PROKOPEC
32 TERRY SILVA
WITH THANKS TO ALL
EDI
FINAL SQUAD LISTING FOR WERRIBEE CUP.
SQUAD A
NAME
1 JUDY WRIGHT
2 KIM LOBB
3 REBECCA ROBINSON
4 AARON REYNOLDS
5 ALAN BAMFORD
6 ALISTER MEDEL
7 BRIAN SHOW-YIN
8 CARL BARBARA
9 CHRISTIAN GAYLOR
10 CRAIG O'TOOLE
11 DAVE ANDREWS
12 DAVID ASHER
13 DAVID PORTO
14 GAVIN COX
15 GAVIN SCOTT
16 IAN COCKBURN
17 JOHN FRANCIS
18 LES UGLICK
19 MARK POTTS
20 MARK RALPH
21 MAX DE GROOT
22 MIKE GRIFFITHS
23 PAUL FRANCIS
24 PETER RALPH
25 RALPH HARFORD
26 RAY THOMPSON
27 ROD FRANCIS
28 SCOT LAW
29 SHANE VANHARTEN
30 STEVE MARTINALI
31 VI HUYNH
SQUAD B
NAME
1 BRIGITTA ARNOTT
2 CARLY ALLEN
3 JANE FINCH
4 JEANETTE KENT
5 JOANNE LAW
6 LARISSA PRIESTLEY
7 LISA NOTMAN
8 NATALIE PROKOPEC
9 TAMARA DARMENIA
10 TANYA STEELE
11 ANDREW JACKLIN
12 ANDREW THORPE
13 BRETT GEORGE
14 BRETT THOMAS
15 CHRIS MESAGNO
16 DOUG BEAR
17 EVERT BALLESTEROS
18 JOHN CONSTANINI
19 LANCE DYER
20 MATTHEW O'BRIEN
21 ONDREJ HEDI
22 PAUL BAST
23 PETER BASSETT
24 PETER BONNING
25 RUSSELL STOKELY
26 SEAN GOTHIE
27 SHANE MINEHAN
28 SHANE STAEHR
29 STEFAN PORTO
30 STEVE MALINA
31 STEVE PROKOPEC
32 TERRY SILVA
WITH THANKS TO ALL
EDI
R
RoTtOs^GiRl
WERRIBEE CUP.
im just wondering if you can please post where everyone is placing? after each block??
im just wondering if you can please post where everyone is placing? after each block??
Werribee
Werribee
Live scores can be viewed on www.tenpin.org.au (TBA site).
there is a direct link at the top of the page,
Edi
NB All going well today!
there is a direct link at the top of the page,
Edi
NB All going well today!
R
RoTtOs^GiRl
Werribee Cup
thanks edi...... im a bit new to this and just couldnt seem to find it thanks again
thanks edi...... im a bit new to this and just couldnt seem to find it thanks again
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Re: Keeping the bowlers honest
You were right...they weren't as tough.
WHAT A JOKE!
Werribee Cup Mens Qualifying Scores
1 MESAGNO Chris
Vic B +332 241.5 258 243 245 257 248 241 256 184 1932 258 502
2 MALINA Stevan
Vic B +273 234.1 243 239 257 234 238 203 246 213 1873 257 491
3 THORPE Andrew
Vic B +227 228.4 185 214 267 205 244 246 210 256 1827 267 490
4 JACKLIN Andrew
Vic B +225 228.1 236 235 193 247 234 226 228 226 1825 247 471
5 CARLILE Michael
Vic A +180 222.5 218 181 235 227 258 210 260 191 1780 260 468
6 GOTHE Sean
Vic B +168 221.0 202 243 227 183 169 246 285 213 1768 285 498
7 IACONO Jim
Vic B +156 219.5 196 248 169 184 247 185 248 279 1756 279 527
8 BEAR Doug
Vic B +154 219.3 234 196 170 253 213 207 215 266 1754 266 481
9 ANDREWS Dave
Vic A +147 218.4 167 232 200 244 224 199 245 236 1747 245 481
10 O'BRIEN Matt
Vic B +134 216.8 218 202 225 216 201 182 212 278 1734 278 490
11= HARFORD Ralph
Vic A +119 214.9 248 227 172 196 221 181 258 216 1719 258 475
11= DYER Lance
Vic B +119 214.9 224 209 182 202 246 199 264 193 1719 264 457
13 FRANCIS Paul
Vic A +104 213.0 202 151 198 234 226 248 235 210 1704 248 474
14 SHOW-YIN Brien
Vic A +101 212.6 210 191 194 205 205 208 258 230 1701 258 488
15 LOWE Justin
Vic A +98 212.3 223 178 206 171 244 231 211 234 1698 244 475
16 PORTO David
Vic A +96 212.0 242 144 194 232 207 201 242 234 1696 242 476
wchester said:
Werribee said:
You were right...they weren't as tough.
WHAT A JOKE!
Werribee Cup Mens Qualifying Scores
1 MESAGNO Chris
Vic B +332 241.5 258 243 245 257 248 241 256 184 1932 258 502
2 MALINA Stevan
Vic B +273 234.1 243 239 257 234 238 203 246 213 1873 257 491
3 THORPE Andrew
Vic B +227 228.4 185 214 267 205 244 246 210 256 1827 267 490
4 JACKLIN Andrew
Vic B +225 228.1 236 235 193 247 234 226 228 226 1825 247 471
5 CARLILE Michael
Vic A +180 222.5 218 181 235 227 258 210 260 191 1780 260 468
6 GOTHE Sean
Vic B +168 221.0 202 243 227 183 169 246 285 213 1768 285 498
7 IACONO Jim
Vic B +156 219.5 196 248 169 184 247 185 248 279 1756 279 527
8 BEAR Doug
Vic B +154 219.3 234 196 170 253 213 207 215 266 1754 266 481
9 ANDREWS Dave
Vic A +147 218.4 167 232 200 244 224 199 245 236 1747 245 481
10 O'BRIEN Matt
Vic B +134 216.8 218 202 225 216 201 182 212 278 1734 278 490
11= HARFORD Ralph
Vic A +119 214.9 248 227 172 196 221 181 258 216 1719 258 475
11= DYER Lance
Vic B +119 214.9 224 209 182 202 246 199 264 193 1719 264 457
13 FRANCIS Paul
Vic A +104 213.0 202 151 198 234 226 248 235 210 1704 248 474
14 SHOW-YIN Brien
Vic A +101 212.6 210 191 194 205 205 208 258 230 1701 258 488
15 LOWE Justin
Vic A +98 212.3 223 178 206 171 244 231 211 234 1698 244 475
16 PORTO David
Vic A +96 212.0 242 144 194 232 207 201 242 234 1696 242 476
A
Abuse
Hey Wayne,
Seems all you do is bag good scoring conditions.
Have a look at the bottom 16 compared to the top 16, paints a different picture.
33 O'TOOLE Craig
Vic A -83 189.6 194 190 214 219 193 189 140 178 1517 219 433
36 VAN HARTEN Shane
Vic A -87 189.1 246 174 192 157 229 157 200 158 1513 246 420
37 BAMFORD Alan
Vic A -100 187.5 163 218 192 229 163 172 180 183 1500 229 421
38 MARTINALI Steve
Vic A -104 187 219 152 203 167 230 183 167 175 1496 230 413
39 MINEHAN Shane
Vic B -112 186 144 203 182 160 171 186 196 246 1488 246 442
40 UGLIK Les
Vic A -123 184.6 162 191 215 174 179 155 223 178 1477 223 401
41 HOGG Len
Vic A -124 184.5 193 153 176 199 225 213 147 170 1476 225 438
42 GAYLOR Christian
Vic A -128 184 213 182 219 179 167 180 157 175 1472 219 398
43 REYNOLDS Aaron
Vic A -147 181.6 136 139 117 215 243 197 180 226 1453 243 440
44 BALLESTEROS Evert
Vic B -149 181.4 180 166 208 179 182 187 176 173 1451 208 387
45 PORTO Stefan
Vic B -162 179.8 199 185 235 134 166 176 174 169 1438 235 384
46 POTTS Mark
Vic A -194 175.8 204 178 158 187 165 168 167 179 1406 204 382
47 THOMPSON Ray
Vic A -242 169.8 169 175 169 160 146 156 225 158 1358 225 383
48 COCKBURN Ian
Vic A -254 168.3 148 147 162 157 213 152 144 223 1346 223 367
49 THOMAS Brett
Vic B -321 159.9 178 173 155 141 178 122 168 164 1279 178 351
50 RALPH Peter
Vic A -327 159.1 154 187 152 176 139 162 133 170 1273 187 341
Dont see you bowling any more, why dont you put your money where ya mouth is?
What do you think you would of averaged on this condition??
Seems all you do is bag good scoring conditions.
Have a look at the bottom 16 compared to the top 16, paints a different picture.
33 O'TOOLE Craig
Vic A -83 189.6 194 190 214 219 193 189 140 178 1517 219 433
36 VAN HARTEN Shane
Vic A -87 189.1 246 174 192 157 229 157 200 158 1513 246 420
37 BAMFORD Alan
Vic A -100 187.5 163 218 192 229 163 172 180 183 1500 229 421
38 MARTINALI Steve
Vic A -104 187 219 152 203 167 230 183 167 175 1496 230 413
39 MINEHAN Shane
Vic B -112 186 144 203 182 160 171 186 196 246 1488 246 442
40 UGLIK Les
Vic A -123 184.6 162 191 215 174 179 155 223 178 1477 223 401
41 HOGG Len
Vic A -124 184.5 193 153 176 199 225 213 147 170 1476 225 438
42 GAYLOR Christian
Vic A -128 184 213 182 219 179 167 180 157 175 1472 219 398
43 REYNOLDS Aaron
Vic A -147 181.6 136 139 117 215 243 197 180 226 1453 243 440
44 BALLESTEROS Evert
Vic B -149 181.4 180 166 208 179 182 187 176 173 1451 208 387
45 PORTO Stefan
Vic B -162 179.8 199 185 235 134 166 176 174 169 1438 235 384
46 POTTS Mark
Vic A -194 175.8 204 178 158 187 165 168 167 179 1406 204 382
47 THOMPSON Ray
Vic A -242 169.8 169 175 169 160 146 156 225 158 1358 225 383
48 COCKBURN Ian
Vic A -254 168.3 148 147 162 157 213 152 144 223 1346 223 367
49 THOMAS Brett
Vic B -321 159.9 178 173 155 141 178 122 168 164 1279 178 351
50 RALPH Peter
Vic A -327 159.1 154 187 152 176 139 162 133 170 1273 187 341
Dont see you bowling any more, why dont you put your money where ya mouth is?
What do you think you would of averaged on this condition??
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Abuse said:
Abuse...
Had I bowled, I most likely would have been right at the bottom of the list. But then, I haven't picked up a ball in over 2½ years.
Since you saw fit to take me to task over my posting, maybe you can be man (or woman) enough to put a name to you opinion. I certainly do, and I'm pretty easy to find if you want to discuss bowling.
And if you read the post carefully, you'll see that I was having a go at Edi from Werribee Bowl for not telling the truth when I asked her if the conditions would be similar to those laid down for the Werribee youth Tournament.
Crawf
Doin' the Mess Around!
Wayne has proven himself at the highest level already, so lets just leave the personal stuff at that.
As for the condition, both of you have a good point. Abuse is right, because it shows that no matter how people perceive the lanes, you've still gotta bowl at your absolute best to get those scores of the top 16.
But Wayne definitely has a point. The Youth condition was widely regarded as tough, yet rewarding because of the thought required to make your shots. I didn't see the condition in question, but ultimately the best bowlers on the day rose to the top, and the bottom 16 see where their game needs to be at to be more competitive on the said 'higher scoring' conditions.
As for the condition, both of you have a good point. Abuse is right, because it shows that no matter how people perceive the lanes, you've still gotta bowl at your absolute best to get those scores of the top 16.
But Wayne definitely has a point. The Youth condition was widely regarded as tough, yet rewarding because of the thought required to make your shots. I didn't see the condition in question, but ultimately the best bowlers on the day rose to the top, and the bottom 16 see where their game needs to be at to be more competitive on the said 'higher scoring' conditions.
Nighteyes300
Member
hey...
i bowled the youth and open events
yes the youth cup was a tougher condition, but the tourni was also a ranked event the werribee cup was not, the cup condition also made u think as it broke down alot faster than the youth cup condition. having bowled both tourni's i think my words are justified.
to Edi and the team at Werribee, thank you for the two different, yet equally challenging conditions.
i bowled the youth and open events
yes the youth cup was a tougher condition, but the tourni was also a ranked event the werribee cup was not, the cup condition also made u think as it broke down alot faster than the youth cup condition. having bowled both tourni's i think my words are justified.
to Edi and the team at Werribee, thank you for the two different, yet equally challenging conditions.
just a quick note
you will find that the scores accross the board was down 10 pins per player on last year
at werribee youth we ran 24.6 ml per lane over 38' (this was at 2.75 : 1 being a nationally ranked tournament, and as you would know, at 38" we could have tipped it up to 4:1)
at werribee cup we ran 21.3 ml per lane over over 40" (this is our current house shot) which has been recently boosted from 16.4 ml per lane
the same condition will be used at the marathon being another event not governed by any TBA lane policy
then in between we will be running the new tba rachuig patterns for the rachuig trials which will be 20.4 ml per lane over 37' for the short condition and 24.8 ml over 41' for the long condition
now more than anyone, i have to keep a balance between keeping people happy and laying out a challenging conditions for the bowlers who pay my wages.
a task you would agree not to be an easy one, i believe i do well at what i set out to achieve.
now in the last month, i have been challenge by bowlers with bad techniques and poor practise agenda's to why they can't average 200+ anymore
i have been challenged by parents who think that an australian shirt gives you the right to score and make the cut at what ever event you turn up for, and to a point being blamed for this childs possible exclusion to this years FIQ
as you can see, i can't win, so don't think for one second, "the words JOKE or ABOMIDATION" make me lose any ounce of sleep or they will influence me in any way in the future in the decisions i make prior to how i am going to condition any lanes today, tomorrow or in the next 12 months.
you can bag what i do, to whoever you like, all it is doing is exposing you for being very closed minded about a process which takes weeks of development to get right.
i believe i am using our kegel machine exactly what it is designed for.
did you know that one of the pba patterns this year is averaging 245+ on T.V this year?
i also noticed that 230+ was needed to make the 8 at the world cup
now on my mediocre platform being the werribee cup last weekend, they got to score
big deal, it seems as though they have the right on higher platforms and yet it goes unchallenged
why don't we speak about this??? in the same context ????
you will find that the scores accross the board was down 10 pins per player on last year
at werribee youth we ran 24.6 ml per lane over 38' (this was at 2.75 : 1 being a nationally ranked tournament, and as you would know, at 38" we could have tipped it up to 4:1)
at werribee cup we ran 21.3 ml per lane over over 40" (this is our current house shot) which has been recently boosted from 16.4 ml per lane
the same condition will be used at the marathon being another event not governed by any TBA lane policy
then in between we will be running the new tba rachuig patterns for the rachuig trials which will be 20.4 ml per lane over 37' for the short condition and 24.8 ml over 41' for the long condition
now more than anyone, i have to keep a balance between keeping people happy and laying out a challenging conditions for the bowlers who pay my wages.
a task you would agree not to be an easy one, i believe i do well at what i set out to achieve.
now in the last month, i have been challenge by bowlers with bad techniques and poor practise agenda's to why they can't average 200+ anymore
i have been challenged by parents who think that an australian shirt gives you the right to score and make the cut at what ever event you turn up for, and to a point being blamed for this childs possible exclusion to this years FIQ
as you can see, i can't win, so don't think for one second, "the words JOKE or ABOMIDATION" make me lose any ounce of sleep or they will influence me in any way in the future in the decisions i make prior to how i am going to condition any lanes today, tomorrow or in the next 12 months.
you can bag what i do, to whoever you like, all it is doing is exposing you for being very closed minded about a process which takes weeks of development to get right.
i believe i am using our kegel machine exactly what it is designed for.
did you know that one of the pba patterns this year is averaging 245+ on T.V this year?
i also noticed that 230+ was needed to make the 8 at the world cup
now on my mediocre platform being the werribee cup last weekend, they got to score
big deal, it seems as though they have the right on higher platforms and yet it goes unchallenged
why don't we speak about this??? in the same context ????
wchester said:
not telling the truth equates to saying telling a lie does it not ???
edi replied to that earlier question post this comment
now whats so hard to understand in that comment ???
we hear what we want to hear, we see what we want to see and obviously can make up whatever we want to make up
Easy Tiger
Active Member
I don't normally go into this stuff, but I'd like to commend Werribee bowl and the technicians who set the pattern for, in particular, the Werribee Youth Cup this year. It was good to bowl in a tournament where you really had to think about your shot, and it made sparing all the more important. You couldn't miss easy spares and expect to pick up the game with 6 or 7 strikes. I learnt so much out of that 10 games, it was invaluable experience. And it also made the 268 I shot in the last game of the day more special to me, because it had to be earnt with hard work for a change, and a bit of thinking...instead of missing your mark by 3 boards and watching the ball roll into the pocket... every shot had to be on target to score.
In terms of the Werribee Cup just gone, I wasn't there so I can't comment. But if it was high scoring, and bowlers took advantage of it, good luck to them. The pattern may have been easier but the best on the day still won. I'm sure those bowlers know that when they face a tough pattern they need to be on top of their game to score well. Sports patterns are always good practice. Why not start a sports series down there to see who really can score on the tough shots. Lose 50 pins in a game then and see how easy it is to get back
In closing, I know from experience how hard it is to keep bowlers happy with conditions. It's a catch 22 situation... they shoot 220+ average and it's too easy and bad for the sport, if they can't average the magical 200 then the conditions are shocking, bad, too hard, "tech doesn't know what he's doing" etc etc etc. What do you do? Pretty much what Craig said - the same stuff gets said all the time, techs don't lose much sleep over it. The best bet is to get a regular sports series going, that will show who can bowl in any situation.
In terms of the Werribee Cup just gone, I wasn't there so I can't comment. But if it was high scoring, and bowlers took advantage of it, good luck to them. The pattern may have been easier but the best on the day still won. I'm sure those bowlers know that when they face a tough pattern they need to be on top of their game to score well. Sports patterns are always good practice. Why not start a sports series down there to see who really can score on the tough shots. Lose 50 pins in a game then and see how easy it is to get back
In closing, I know from experience how hard it is to keep bowlers happy with conditions. It's a catch 22 situation... they shoot 220+ average and it's too easy and bad for the sport, if they can't average the magical 200 then the conditions are shocking, bad, too hard, "tech doesn't know what he's doing" etc etc etc. What do you do? Pretty much what Craig said - the same stuff gets said all the time, techs don't lose much sleep over it. The best bet is to get a regular sports series going, that will show who can bowl in any situation.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
Craig,
The PBA is a joke and each and every exempt player knows it. This is an Australian forum, therefore I don't say too much about the PBA.
The scoring on tour is ridiculous and meant to be only a means to show off the PBA players' ability. To tell you the truth, bowling worldwide has become a joke. What has happened to the "sport"? You know damn well that it's virtually impossible to lay down a condition that will be both fair and medium scoring, while holding up throughout the competition. I ask only that the powers that be (techs, owners, promoters, bowling officials and bowl managers) commit themselves to being open and completely honest in what they say and do.
You, my friend are guilty of a little trickery because of how you changed the emphasised word in Edi's quote from as to won't
Good try though..I'll have to give you points for that.
The PBA is a joke and each and every exempt player knows it. This is an Australian forum, therefore I don't say too much about the PBA.
The scoring on tour is ridiculous and meant to be only a means to show off the PBA players' ability. To tell you the truth, bowling worldwide has become a joke. What has happened to the "sport"? You know damn well that it's virtually impossible to lay down a condition that will be both fair and medium scoring, while holding up throughout the competition. I ask only that the powers that be (techs, owners, promoters, bowling officials and bowl managers) commit themselves to being open and completely honest in what they say and do.
You, my friend are guilty of a little trickery because of how you changed the emphasised word in Edi's quote from as to won't
Good try though..I'll have to give you points for that.
M
Matto
Firstly I would like to say thank you to Edi and all the staff at Werribee for yet another well run tournament
Having played in both of the tournaments in question, i believe i am fairly qualified to give an opinion on this topic.
Was the Cup pattern on the weekend easier then the Youth pattern? Absolutlely...
Did it require any less effort and thought to score? Absolutley not!!! Now i'm not saying it was a difficult condition by any means, but it wasnt as easy as people who didnt play on it seem to think... particularly after the re-oil before matchplay...
If you didnt match up right, you were in trouble on this condition... play too deep, you had an out of bounds... not enough ball surface, you had too much under-over... and lets ask pretty much everyone how many different, balls, lines & speeds they played in the search for an angle that would give them consistant carry :shock:
All in all, once again a good tournament. Congatulations to Chris and Carly on their wins... well deserved.
Look forward to seeing everyone there next year
Matto
Having played in both of the tournaments in question, i believe i am fairly qualified to give an opinion on this topic.
Was the Cup pattern on the weekend easier then the Youth pattern? Absolutlely...
Did it require any less effort and thought to score? Absolutley not!!! Now i'm not saying it was a difficult condition by any means, but it wasnt as easy as people who didnt play on it seem to think... particularly after the re-oil before matchplay...
If you didnt match up right, you were in trouble on this condition... play too deep, you had an out of bounds... not enough ball surface, you had too much under-over... and lets ask pretty much everyone how many different, balls, lines & speeds they played in the search for an angle that would give them consistant carry :shock:
All in all, once again a good tournament. Congatulations to Chris and Carly on their wins... well deserved.
Look forward to seeing everyone there next year
Matto
