WALTER DE VEER NATIONAL RESTRICTED CHALLENGE

[Tiger]

It's a bit of a pickle all of this really.
Bowling seems to be getting more and more fractured by the year, their seems to be splinter groups forming everywhere.
The level of respect shown between elite and non-elite seems to be disappearing rapidly, and that goes both ways and is hurting the sport immeasurably.
It'll be quite interesting to see what happens to the future of the TBA Nationals in years to come, because, as someone who was at most of the Nationals events last year, the ATBSO had quite solid crowds and playing numbers for their tournament, De Veer week had by far and away the most games bowled and much larger crowds attending than did Rachuig week.
I was quite stunned by the poor turnout for the three days of Rachuig, I could've had a kick of the footy along the back concourse at Moonah during the Rachuig Opening Ceremony and struggled to hit another spectator.
I was equally stunned by how few games were bowled during the days leading up to Rachuig in Nationals events.
It'd be very interesting to see TBA tabulate games bowled for the month of Nationals and see where their 'bread & butter' competitors come from.
Whilst I do think changes were probably needed, I think it needed to be handled sensibly and with respect shown.
All this has really done has gone and risked alienating a large proportion of Nationals entrants - and with the sport fast going down the crapper in this country, it can ill-afford more fractures of this kind to keep taking place.
Who's to say we don't lose some of these players out of the sport completely over this type of thing? We can't afford to lose anymore bowlers!
To gain good corporate sponsorships for events, to gain better recognition for the sport a more united front is needed, and that is not happening currently.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[pixie]

Just a few more points to consider for all those people bandying around the word "elite", if you would care to look at the Rachuig scores for this year you will find that out of 68 women who bowled only 30 bowled over 180 average, 21 bowled 170-180 avg, 14 bowled 160-170avg and 3 bowled under 150 avg. Compare this with de veer (who apparently don't count as we are not classed as State Representatives) of the 70 women who bowled 16 bowled over 160avg. Great when compared with 14 Rachuig women. The men also are not exempt from this, out of the 70 men who bowled 16 managed to bowl under 180 avg - the cut-off for de veer men. Before you start saying de veer are not good enough to represent their state, perhaps you should look at who you are calling elite. Many of the Rachuig women are my friends and hopefully none are too offended by the figures above, but the fact is De Veer IS good enough to represent their state and there should be no more "elite" and "second-raters".

The splinter faction, whilst it will certainly get supported does not exactly prove the point we are trying to make in that we ARE good enough to be included and I believe it is high time everybody stops and looks at who makes up the majority of bowling in this day and age and it is NOT people who can bowl 200+ averages.

 

[strop]

Pixie,
First of all I assume you mean last years Rachuig.
This may be true with the women maybe because of lack of depth of talent, I know this has been the case here in SA. As far as the men go, maybe the same but did you ever bother to think the maybe that not all the best bowlers in their respective states bowl or try out for Rachuig. I know for a fact they don't here.!!!!
You quoted

Before you start saying de veer are not good enough to represent their state, perhaps you should look at who you are calling elite.

Not sure what you mean by this. Deveer is just another classification.!
Don't try to read too much into some of the posts. Chill out. Deveer is a great tournament if it's anything like Rachuig use to be and what the seniors challenge is today. DeVeer doesn't need defending except from the TBA who wish to destroy it.
I'm not sure where the "Elite" comes into this.
It doesn't, it's scratch and this is handicapped but the atmosphere and get together and the fun , plus the competition even though with handicap is the same.
Cheers
Tony

 

[edfleminglanes]

There is no need for a break away group to host De Veer. TBA needs to justify their actions and need to understand that they are there to .....REPRESENT the bowlers in Australia. At the moment we have ventured back to the old days when ATBC did what they wanted to do and almost ruined bowling. We now have TBA doing the same thing. WAKE up TBA before it is too late...... you are there to promote bowling throughout Australia and recruit all registered bowlers into the National Championships. We should have 1000's of bowlers coming to the Nationals and getting a real buzz being part of the Tenpin Bowling Family, but instead we have only 100's and most of these are De Veer bowlers who have supported and enjoyed making the annual trip to the Australian Nationals.

It is about time all bowlers in Australia stood up and make TBA accountable for their actions. Get into your State Associations and make them put the pressure on TBA.Remember your State Association can vote to replace the current board and put new people on the board who have the best interest of all bowlers at heart. It would seem that some people on TBA board are more interested in what is happening overseas then what is happening in our own back yard.

Lets fix our own back yard first and then maybe everything else will fall into place and our great sport will be just that, "Great SPORT of Tenpin Bowling".

I implore TBA to listen to the bowlers, we dont need anymore break away groups we need one(1) strong National Association with one State Branch in each state whose main criteria is to promote the Sport of Tenpin Bowling thru out Australia and encourage all bowlers of all averages to compete at the Nationals.How simple can that be

 

[gjelectrics1]

There is no need for a break away group to host De Veer. TBA needs to justify their actions and need to understand that they are there to .....REPRESENT the bowlers in Australia. At the moment we have ventured back to the old days when ATBC did what they wanted to do and almost ruined bowling. We now have TBA doing the same thing. WAKE up TBA before it is too late...... you are there to promote bowling throughout Australia and recruit all registered bowlers into the National Championships. We should have 1000's of bowlers coming to the Nationals and getting a real buzz being part of the Tenpin Bowling Family, but instead we have only 100's and most of these are De Veer bowlers who have supported and enjoyed making the annual trip to the Australian Nationals.
It is about time all bowlers in Australia stood up and make TBA accountable for their actions. Get into your State Associations and make them put the pressure on TBA.Remember your State Association can vote to replace the current board and put new people on the board who have the best interest of all bowlers at heart. It would seem that some people on TBA board are more interested in what is happening overseas then what is happening in our own back yard.
Lets fix our own back yard first and then maybe everything else will fall into place and our great sport will be just that, "Great SPORT of Tenpin Bowling".
I implore TBA to listen to the bowlers, we dont need anymore break away groups we need one(1) strong National Association with one State Branch in each state whose main criteria is to promote the Sport of Tenpin Bowling thru out Australia and encourage all bowlers of all averages to compete at the Nationals.How simple can that be

Well said

 

[gjelectrics1]

The DeVeer Trophy was a great idea at the time of implementation but it just didn't work. I remember back when I went straight from juniors to seniors and it was a really tough transition and one that made a lot of people quit. I wish Youth had've been around in my day. It was a good idea to try to put some sort of stepping stone in for folks to gain the experience and familiarity to compete at the highest level but the current format, while sound in principle, just didn't solve that problem. Instead, it bred a group of players who were content with representing at DeVeer level and never striving to compete at Rachuig. The fact that they called themselves the "State Team" and constantly wear their shirts and jackets has cheapened the sport and made most of the elite bowlers I know embarrassed to wear their state shirts or even acknowledge the tournament. Representing your state, should mean that you are the best in your state, and it should be hard to make the team. Creating some second rate tournament so that another group of not so talented bowllers can feel good about themselves and pretend to be state team pleyers is a farce that only hurts bowling in the long run. I've heard many comments from spectators at the bowl where Deveer bowlers have been bowling and wearing their shirts along the lines of "He's not very good, how can he be in the State Team" or "I could do better than that" People should be able to watch your state team players and say, wow, they're awesome, I wish I was that good. It should be the goal of every bowler that wants to be competitive to practice and get the skills necessary to bowl Rachuig. There is no other tournament like it in the world and it is an honour to reperesent. Perhaps inow that we have got rid of the "pretenders" we can entice some corporate sponsorship to subsidise the costs of staging the tournament. I know a lot of you are annoyed at the TBA right now, but for the good of bowling and the enhancemnt of our sport, it's time to cut the DeVeer tourney and concentrate on ways to build skill levels and competitive spirit rather than providing a false haven for players that will never have the ability to compete. I have met a few DeVeer bowlers that have strived to improve and play at Rachuig level, but not enough to convince me that DeVeer is a viable and valuable tournament to keep on the schedule.
In short, if you want to be called a State Team Representative, learn to bowl, get the skills, pracftice and make your Rachuig team. You may actually earn some respect that way.
Jan

Maybe with attitudes like this that is why TBA have done what they have done with De Veer

 

[eraser20]

After reading all the posts I can see that there is a great passion for the continuation of WDV. I too would have liked to have seen it continue for many years, but feel that we must not lay all the blame on Alex or TBA, some of our fellow WDV bowlers / officials must also take some of the flack. They are known to many of us, but more importantly they know who they are, and hopefully are now feel guilty (I doubt this greatly!).


Over the past few years we have had a minority of bowlers who obviously kept their averages low to bowl WDV again, maybe its a bit of an adiction. These bowlers did not appear to have a problem with much higher scores than average in qualifying or WDV, (although the All Events did seem to cause some a problem). This obviously is unfair to other bowlers / teams who them compete against. It also prevented new bowlers with a genuine average from experiencing the privilege of bowling for their state, and enjoying the friendships one may gain from the tournament.


Pixie,
- I too increased my average by 30+ pins from when I bowled WDV in 2001 and hopefully my average will continue to increase. I know I will never be able to bowl Rachuig, but that is life.

- I don't think you can compare averages between WDV and Rachuig, they bowled on different oiling patterns (from memory).


Maybe TBA should have stepped in earlier and changed the criteria for entry, I know there were given suggestions over the past few years, which were basically ignored, as which appears to have happened to Max's suggestions.


I feel it has just become just too much for TBA to deal with so the easiest way is to end it.


Well maybe TBA will feel the consequences after the Nationals if lineage is low. Who knows, we will just have to wait and see.


Noelene

 

[bm2]

Whilst we sit here and lament the loss of the Walter DeVeer Restricted Challenge as we all know it, I for one would personally like to extend my thanks to a group of people who have consistently fought hard to keep the event going, particularly over the last couple of years - Peter Coburn, Ronda Hatchard, and John Dobson..........these three people ( without reimbursement) have tirelessly run the Nationals over the last few years, and have been great believers in the concept of the Walter DeVeer tournament. They have been the TBA frontliners who witness first hand the level of sportsmanship, camaraderie, and dedication of the majority of Deveer participants, from the time of the Opening squad, thru national all events and culminating in the Restricted Masters after Deveer itself. This "decision" by the current board to revamp the event must be as gut wrenching for them as it is for the rest of us, and as big a slap in the face as they could get.

For trying til the very end to keep it alive; for believing in us, the average Australian league bowler, and giving us the opportunity to take some pride in our achievements (however insignificant they may appear to anyone else) at a national level - thank you
We have appreciated your efforts, in particular over the last few years,to keep DeVeer in the calendar. I for one echo the comments made by my fellow DeVeer'ers, and hope that this decision does not come back to bite TBA on the proverbial..........

Broni

 

[JWhitty]

I'd like to add to Broni's comments above, WDV has survived this long thanks to Peter Coburn's hard efforts in 04 and 05 especially. Lots of ideas were bounced around in the tournament room in Illawarra, and they were listened to and considered. Some were chosen, others were not, and we can all plainly see the changes occurring these last few years to try and combat the... clever.. bowlers.

Does everyone remember the rumours floating around in 2005? Who started them? Why? I don't know, but who quashed them in the end by delivering as promised? Peter.

 

[DrewC]

From what I can tell there is an opportunity to grow and expand the feeling, goodwill and competition of Deveer to many more than just 70 men and 70 women (why restrict it). There is nothing stopping anyone from entering their own teams, having roll offs to send centre association teams or regional teams etc etc. The potential is there to turn the new format into a massively attended tournament which is fun and competitive. Hopefully the door is not shut on tweaking the format, this tournament is in its first year.
There is also a development opportunity for each state to implement programs for those who want to improve their games a little or a lot maybe moving toward scratch representative bowling whether it be Rachuig or open tournaments. Is the goal not to improve no matter what level you are at, if not what is the point of competing? Every bowler started somewhere there are not many who pick up a ball and average over 200 from then on.
Unfortunately it is a fact of life that not everyone can attain the state or national level in their chosen sport but everyone can strive and work for it. Having one state team (for each age group) will hopefully bring a level of respect for all bowlers in the respective teams no matter how humble their beginnings.

 

[gjelectrics1]

From what I can tell there is an opportunity to grow and expand the feeling, goodwill and competition of Deveer to many more than just 70 men and 70 women (why restrict it). There is nothing stopping anyone from entering their own teams, having roll offs to send centre association teams or regional teams etc etc. The potential is there to turn the new format into a massively attended tournament which is fun and competitive. Hopefully the door is not shut on tweaking the format, this tournament is in its first year.
There is also a development opportunity for each state to implement programs for those who want to improve their games a little or a lot maybe moving toward scratch representative bowling whether it be Rachuig or open tournaments. Is the goal not to improve no matter what level you are at, if not what is the point of competing? Every bowler started somewhere there are not many who pick up a ball and average over 200 from then on.
Unfortunately it is a fact of life that not everyone can attain the state or national level in their chosen sport but everyone can strive and work for it. Having one state team (for each age group) will hopefully bring a level of respect for all bowlers in the respective teams no matter how humble their beginnings.

Well said Drew,
But the "Average or developing bowlers" still need some sort of pathway or "carrot" to entice them into some sort of development program so they can become Rachuig standard bowlers. I guess what it comes down to is that we like some sort of recognition for the effort we put in. on the other hand if that recognition is ill gained or gained by ill means it does not mean A BLOODY THING"

 

[gjelectrics1]

I'm not overly inclinded to agree there, I don't think that adults ever really had much of a pathway (Juniors have Shield, now there's youth too). But We can discuss that one later Clemow Can't argue with that, I'm pleased to see people who have been in the tournament a bit saying this too. Well said.
So I'll put your name on the Rachuig trials list mate?
On a seperate note, how many of you will be bowling your state restricted cups this year? Or even simply TBA State Championships in your various areas?

You probably will see my name on the trials list Jeff but what about yourself

 

[tidal wave]

Here you all go some more food for thought for DE VEER, Rachuig, the grass roots bowler and MOST of all the elitest TBA mangers and executives.How do you feel about conducting a restricted handicapped nationals where all grades and events are conducted on a handicapped basis with the showcase state reresentative event is a DeVeer state style tournament . The current nationals then being a graded scratch event remaining with the Rachuig tourment being its showcase state representative event.

 

[gjelectrics1]

Here you all go some more food for thought for DE VEER, Rachuig, the grass roots bowler and MOST of all the elitest TBA mangers and executives.How do you feel about conducting a restricted handicapped nationals where all grades and events are conducted on a handicapped basis with the showcase state reresentative event is a DeVeer state style tournament . The current nationals then being a graded scratch event remaining with the Rachuig tourment being its showcase state representative event.

Brad, are you saying have 2 nationals??

 

[tidal wave]

you have it in one ..... one for scratch events and one for handicapped events ....with the h'capped one having grades and even 2 rep sides to take away the need for sand bagging ...lets say b grade and below and the other being the top of classic as the cut off and open to all under 200

 

[blue123]

As a former De Veer Bowler I feel very saddend that the TBA finally got it right by adjusting handicapps on a daily basis to prevent the so called Sandbaggers from competing in the Deveer section of the Nationals and sending the message to all bowlers to bowl in the division you belong and are well capable of competing in. I believe the De Veer Tournament was set up as a stepping stone for Rachuig and now once again we had a starter but now no race no finnish.

I do ponder one thing about all this "is it the popularity of De Veer and not Rachuig with the followers worrying the TBA Committee" Sucess is a dreadful thing sometimes.

On one last note of interest who will fill the Graded squads when the De Veer bowler has no State Level Competition to compete in will they still go to the Nationals We're talking big numbers of competitors here big enough for TBA to put their own team in bit Ironic I'd Say.

 

[gjelectrics1]

As a former De Veer Bowler I feel very saddend that the TBA finally got it right by adjusting handicapps on a daily basis to prevent the so called Sandbaggers from competing in the Deveer section of the Nationals and sending the message to all bowlers to bowl in the division you belong and are well capable of competing in. I believe the De Veer Tournament was set up as a stepping stone for Rachuig and now once again we had a starter but now no race no finnish.
I do ponder one thing about all this "is it the popularity of De Veer and not Rachuig with the followers worrying the TBA Committee" Sucess is a dreadful thing sometimes.
On one last note of interest who will fill the Graded squads when the De Veer bowler has no State Level Competition to compete in will they still go to the Nationals We're talking big numbers of competitors here big enough for TBA to put their own team in bit Ironic I'd Say.

Are you saying that you will not be going to nationals this year?

 

[mannah]

None of my family will be this year (thats 6 bowlers!)