WALTER DE VEER NATIONAL RESTRICTED CHALLENGE

[Corby]

The following has just come up on the TBA website:

WALTER DE VEER NATIONAL RESTRICTED CHALLENGE

The event will replace the Walter De Veer Interstate Restricted Challenge and the National Intercentre Cup.

This event is a five (5) person team event based on a handicap of 100% of 210. All Bowling Centres, Local Associations, Area Associations or any non State/Territory representative group of bowlers are eligible to enter one or more teams. All bowlers must hold a TBA Registered Player Card and must have attained the age of 18 years on or prior to the first day of the Championship.

Entering averages will be those used for the Adult National Championships. Adult Championships dress rules apply.

There will be a Men’s and Ladies Division. A substitute sixth (6th) bowler is permitted. Squads may be varied or added to if required, depending on entries.

All teams will bowl eight ( 8 ) games qualifying over two (2) rounds.

Qualifying: Qualifying will be done in two squads of 4 games, A squad 9.00am, B squad 2.00pm on day 1, then visa versa on day 2. The top ( 8 ) eight teams based on total pinfall plus handicap will go through to the final. A one game playoff based on pinfall plus handicap will be played immediately before the Matchplayfinal to break a tie for eighth place. Should more than two teams be involved in a play-off for eighth place, theformat will be determined by a committee of at least three persons appointed by TBA. The Tournament
Director will chair this committee.

Final: 9.00am start. All qualifying pinfall will be dropped. Teams will play seven (7) games in Round Robin match play. Each team member will be matched against the opposing team member in the corresponding
position in the line-up and the bowler achieving the highest total pinfall plus handicap for the game will win one (1) point for the team. In the event of an equal game score, the point will be equally shared. The team’s total pinfall plus handicap will be compared with the total of the opposing team and two (2) points will be awarded to the team with the highest total. In the event of an equal team score, the points will be equally shared. The team with the greatest number of points at the completion of the Matchplay final will be declared the winners. Team total pinfall plus handicap over the seven (7) game final will be used to break any tie.

Prize Fund in each Division:
1st PLACE: $1000 plus Trophy and shirt.
2nd PLACE $500
3rd PLACE $250

Presentations will be made at the completion of the final.
These conditions are based on having a minimum of 10 teams qualifying in each Division and 8 teams competing in the Final of each Division. Changes in those numbers may impact on cost and prize funds.

COST PER TEAM QUALIFYING $370.00

Tuesday 9th October Squad A 8.30 am Check-in 4 games
Squad B 1.30 pm Check-in 4 games

Wednesday 10th October Squad B 8.30 am Check-in 4 games
Squad A 1.30 pm Check-in 4 games

COST PER TEAM FOR FINAL $340.00

Thursday 11th October Top 8 teams 8.30 am Check-in 7 games


All I can say is I think TBA went the wrong way with this one.

 

[Mark Ward]

yes i must agree....i think it might be the year where tba lose some bowlers and east coast staes may have a good turn out

cant wait to see some comments about this one

 

[Chucky]

Prize Fund in each Division:
1st PLACE: $1000 plus Trophy and shirt.
2nd PLACE $500
3rd PLACE $250
Presentations will be made at the completion of the final.
These conditions are based on having a minimum of 10 teams qualifying in each Division and 8 teams competing in the Final of each Division. Changes in those numbers may impact on cost and prize funds.
COST PER TEAM QUALIFYING $370.00
Tuesday 9th October Squad A 8.30 am Check-in 4 games
Squad B 1.30 pm Check-in 4 games
Wednesday 10th October Squad B 8.30 am Check-in 4 games
Squad A 1.30 pm Check-in 4 games
COST PER TEAM FOR FINAL $340.00
Thursday 11th October Top 8 teams 8.30 am Check-in 7 games
All I can say is I think TBA went the wrong way with this one.

so to put a team in you pay $370 to qualify. then if you make the finals you have to pay an additional fee of $340. so if you make the finals the team of 5 has to pay $670. so around $125 each say.

Is the prize fund a team payment or an individual payment? If its a team how out of it is that the second place team dont even get there money back. not exactly inviting to bowl in it. hey come and bowl we will take your money but you have to finish first to get money back...

and i agree this is an easy cop out they have just made the intercentre challenge into a 5 person comp with male and female divisions so you cant have mixed teams even.... with then the finals using the deveer scoring system. other then that there is nothing that even links it to the old deveer.

great way to ruin a great comp..

And yeah what incentive is there for the west coast bowlers to come over for it now. a 2 day comp that has no real drive in it like the deveer tourny did.

bad move tba

 

[JWhitty]

Well I for one am not surprised. It is a shame, I liked WDVIRC as an event and thought it made a pretty positive addition to Nationals.

I know I'm going to be reamed for this next comment, so I'd like to be clear beforehand that:
* I am not saying all De Veer bowlers are responsible
* I was a supporter of keeping De Veer, and trying to make it appropriate

De Veer has been abused by many bowlers over the years, and TBA thru the efforts largely of Peter Coburn have tried to fix it with a number of patches. Honestly, I am sorry for those bowlers who cannot for whatever reason compete in the scratch competition who are going to miss out now. I'm not sorry for those who have abused this tournament for years and brought this on the others.

I'm not going to name names, and this is not at all personal, I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about.

Sincerely I wish the splinter group that I know will break away over this issue the best of luck.

BRAVE move TBA

 

[ChrisG]

And yeah what incentive is there for the west coast bowlers to come over for it now. a 2 day comp that has no real drive in it like the deveer tourny did.
bad move tba

You are right Chucky. There is no incentive now for going there now. Both myself and my wife tried out for DeVeer last year because we were representing our state and it was great fun while also being serious. Now, what incentive is there to travel from Queensland to Victoria to bowl in a 2-3 day tournament where if you don't get first spot, then your expenses aren't covered. The only teams that I can see bowling in this would be the people who are local/close to the area, maybe a day's car travel away.

All Bowling Centres, Local Associations, Area Associations or any non State/Territory representative group of bowlers are eligible to enter one or more teams.

So now there is no State representative competition for people who can't keep up with scratch bowlers. This would take out quite a large percentage of bowlers.

I beleive that this is a move in the wrong direction and will only hamper the sport instead of helping it. Where is the step up to rachuig now? I had a number of people interested in bowling DeVeer in 2007 because you were representing your state. Now, I doubt that one of them would go to this.

I going to digest this information for a while before saying more, but I am very disappointed in this

Chris Grundon.

 

[double_d]

i dont understand why tba would put any energy into such a thing
and i dont understand why anyone would pay so much money for so little return

if tba is trying to get rid of sandbagging i am not sure if there are or not
but they should maybe make it a scratch tourny for averages under 190
but the average must be from maybe 4 different points of the year and highest 4 averages of any league

i will not go to victoria for this especially when its not representing my state

daniel d

 

[Bowling Balls Australia]

I submitted a proposal for TBA to consider some weeks ago and had a reply from Alex Popov stating that he wanted to discuss it further. Then all of a sudden this announcement has happened.

I am bitterly disappointed with this decision. We know DeVeer needed some changes, but positive ones, not negative. I am sure Walter would be turning in his grave at the moment.

I have attached herewith the proposal I sent to TBA, which as you will see was aimed at making the tournament accountable and also incorporating an extra division to bridge the gap between DeVeer and Rachuig.

I would be interested in people's thoughts.

Max

 

[Bowling Balls Australia]

Hit the wrong button.

Proposal attached now.

 

[strop]

Interesting topic, funny enough TBA mostly have always done what they want, hasn't changed much over the years even back in the DeVeer days.
I agree with you Max in general but anything that involves Handicap will always be hard to Police.
You quoted in you letter ...

Issues I see need addressing are raised by the following examples: allowing 70+ year old bowlers (with a 130 odd average) or any senior player with a 120 odd average to represent their state at this level is a farce, particularly where there is already that facility with ATBSO. These bowlers are never going to achieve Rachuig STANDARD, which is after all what this tournament is supposedly about.

Being old , even if there is a ATBSO shouldn't really matter. Every Man for himself I say. And as far as Rachuig Standard, Well these days please tell me what that is........
When they bought DeVeer in I wasn't so sure why we needed it except to cater for the lower average bowler, but I see now it has it's advantages.
I look at ATBSO with their Restricted Challenge which to me, it the same as Deveer and if you look at there rules and guidelines isn't that bad and maybe could be adopt into Deveer.
As far as having anything in between Deveer and Rachuig, certainly not need.
I haven't read all the posts to Really what's happening to Deveer but it seems to me allot of people would miss this if TBA decide to get rid of it.
Will watch eagerly because it will effect me in the future when myself looking at 50 soon, I'm sure my average will slowly decline enough to qualify for this tournament. Even though there is a ATBSO Restricted tournament, will I be frowned upon entering the Deveer even though I'm heading in the wrong direction to Rachuig.
Cheers
Tony

 

[JAY K]

This is to Alex ,WHY did you not listen, to anything that was said to you or even emailed. I feel sorry that I am gong to see the death of another sporting event with you at the HELM People want to help and have advised on many aspect of this game. Max from Bowling Balls Australia put allot of time and enough for the love of the sport and you have just given him a slap in the face. i MUST SAY THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO IMPROVE THE SPORT.


VERY DISAPPOINTED BOWLER

JEANETTE KENT

 

[Serenity]

TBA sure know how to ruin a wonderful event like de veer. It was about
representing your state, being part of something bigger and having fun.
I would like to thank the TBA for freeing up 2 weeks of holidays next year for my family and I. Its not much but the fees for bowling all events, welcome tourny, intercentre cup and maybe de veer if qualified, now will remain in my pocket.

 

[mannah]

Totally agree with Serenity. For the last 5 years at least one of our family has been in the DeVeer team and we as a family went to the Nationals to watch and support them and the rest of the team as well as bowling in All Events, Welcome Tournament, Restricted Cup and spending a lot of money at the bowl for the time we were there over the 7 days. Usually budgetted at least $6,000 for one team member and an extra few days holidays after the tournament for touring the area in addition to the substantial savings of uniforms, training expenses, pre-tournament competitions, etc etc.
With these changes the Tournament is ruined. Not even a presentation dinner on the TBA schedule.
Thanks TBA - you are really looking after the sport !!! Certainly not for the 90% of your average TBA members.
At least there will be quite a few more vacancies in the squads before the "DeVeer Challenge" as there is no longer any requirement to bowl an All Events. Anybody interested - I'm not.
To all the bowlers who brought the Tournament into disrepute by sandbagging and to TBA for ignoring the majority of the bowlers who abide by the spirit of the competition - Shame, Shame, Shame.

 

[gjelectrics1]

The Walter De Veer Tournament was only ever designed to be a "PATHWAY" to representing our state/country at the highest level. Too many bowlers represented their state in Deveer and thought that will do and then either deliberatly kept their average at the required level or through lack of effort by not training or not seeking coaching to improve their level of bowling plateued out at deveer level. Isn't the goal of every participant in any sport to represent their state/country at the "HIGHEST" level.

 

[eraser20]

The Walter De Veer Tournament was only ever designed to be a "PATHWAY" to representing our state/country at the highest level. Too many bowlers represented their state in Deveer and thought that will do and then either deliberatly kept their average at the required level or through lack of effort by not training or not seeking coaching to improve their level of bowling plateued out at deveer level. Isn't the goal of every participant in any sport to represent their state/country at the "HIGHEST" level.

Very well said. Couldn't agree more.
Noelene

 

[strop]

To make Rachuig the highest level and be TRUE they need to go back to not just wins and losses but pinfall as peterson points to be included. None of this winning on a 150 game and not effecting the overall team points.!!!

Get back to the true rachuig.

cheers

tony

 

[JWhitty]

The Walter De Veer Tournament was only ever designed to be a "PATHWAY" to representing our state/country at the highest level.

I'm not overly inclinded to agree there, I don't think that adults ever really had much of a pathway (Juniors have Shield, now there's youth too). But We can discuss that one later Clemow

Too many bowlers represented their state in Deveer and thought that will do and then either deliberatly kept their average at the required level or through lack of effort by not training or not seeking coaching to improve their level of bowling plateued out at deveer level.

Can't argue with that, I'm pleased to see people who have been in the tournament a bit saying this too. Well said.

Isn't the goal of every participant in any sport to represent their state/country at the "HIGHEST" level.

So I'll put your name on the Rachuig trials list mate?

On a seperate note, how many of you will be bowling your state restricted cups this year? Or even simply TBA State Championships in your various areas?

 

[dunryc]

The DeVeer Trophy was a great idea at the time of implementation but it just didn't work. I remember back when I went straight from juniors to seniors and it was a really tough transition and one that made a lot of people quit. I wish Youth had've been around in my day. It was a good idea to try to put some sort of stepping stone in for folks to gain the experience and familiarity to compete at the highest level but the current format, while sound in principle, just didn't solve that problem. Instead, it bred a group of players who were content with representing at DeVeer level and never striving to compete at Rachuig. The fact that they called themselves the "State Team" and constantly wear their shirts and jackets has cheapened the sport and made most of the elite bowlers I know embarrassed to wear their state shirts or even acknowledge the tournament. Representing your state, should mean that you are the best in your state, and it should be hard to make the team. Creating some second rate tournament so that another group of not so talented bowllers can feel good about themselves and pretend to be state team pleyers is a farce that only hurts bowling in the long run. I've heard many comments from spectators at the bowl where Deveer bowlers have been bowling and wearing their shirts along the lines of "He's not very good, how can he be in the State Team" or "I could do better than that" People should be able to watch your state team players and say, wow, they're awesome, I wish I was that good. It should be the goal of every bowler that wants to be competitive to practice and get the skills necessary to bowl Rachuig. There is no other tournament like it in the world and it is an honour to reperesent. Perhaps inow that we have got rid of the "pretenders" we can entice some corporate sponsorship to subsidise the costs of staging the tournament. I know a lot of you are annoyed at the TBA right now, but for the good of bowling and the enhancemnt of our sport, it's time to cut the DeVeer tourney and concentrate on ways to build skill levels and competitive spirit rather than providing a false haven for players that will never have the ability to compete. I have met a few DeVeer bowlers that have strived to improve and play at Rachuig level, but not enough to convince me that DeVeer is a viable and valuable tournament to keep on the schedule.
In short, if you want to be called a State Team Representative, learn to bowl, get the skills, pracftice and make your Rachuig team. You may actually earn some respect that way.
Jan

 

[jhk67]

For the people who have absolutly no idea what this is about, like me explain what is walter de veer, what they are changing it to and why this has annoyed people or made them happy so I can understand the pros and cons of this.

 

[dunryc]

For the people who have absolutly no idea what this is about, like me explain what is walter de veer, what they are changing it to and why this has annoyed people or made them happy so I can understand the pros and cons of this.

If you don't know, then it probably doesn't really concern you!
Jan

 

[mongoliantreesloth]

If you don't know, then it probably doesn't really concern you!
Jan

...and if that's the best answer you can give to jhk67's question then it probably doesn't concern you much either.