victorian rachuig teams

[chucker]

i would just like to say good luck to both the mens and womens teams travelling to townsville.and hope to see you all try out next year.i would also like to say that as a rachuig member from previous years what a discrace it is to pull out and not bowl.for the third year in a row the peop[le that made the team aren't the same traht travelled to compete,and next year if you dont want to represent your state DONT TRY OUT!hopefully next year the state committee move to put penalty's in place to stop peple pullingout.maybe the best idea would be to get with the times and the other states and have some type of selection this is the best way of getting the best team as was proven when victoria was a state to be reckoned with in the mid nineties and to stop useing jason way as an excuse the same thing happened to paul trotter another year and he has gone on with it and is one of the best team bowlers in this country.anyway enough bitching off my chest. GOOD LUCK VICTORIA AND BRING HOME THE TROPHY.

 

[craig]

good luck rachuig teams in the big big job ahead of you

hey mac

you can be the selector as long as you pick me and the roo boy :lol:

seriously though, i still think the issue is the money to go to the nats, not whether people try out or be selected.

victoria has the players to win rachuig, we just have to formulate a plan to get them on the lanes

 

[*chook :>*]

good luck to all the bowlers in the vic rachuig team especialy my mum lisa!! :wink: \/
GO VICTORIA!!!

 

[AdrianS]

Hopefully next year will be more than my usual 'i'm thinking about it, see how the money goes' routine. Might just be heading back that way again..... :x-mas:

 

[chucker]

seriously if i was a selector i would pick quality bowlers as roo boy and chucky.if money is a problem going to the nats next year then any country bowler who makes the rachuig team next year can stay at my house seeing that rachuig is in victoria we should have the best bowlers from around the state try out.

 

[jockey]

Selection is a step backwards not forwards!

The reason people stopped trying out for Rachuig previously was that certain individuals were automatic selections. I don't care how good a bowler a person is, if they cannot go through the process of qualifying for a team then they should not be their. Their performance either in not attempting the trials or not making it into the team does not warrant it.

There is one important thing to remember and something I always say when asked about bowling:

A bowler should be measured on his current performance levels and not on past exploits.

The past is the past and should not be used to determine representative teams. The day Rachuig selection reverts to this method is the day our sport takes a step backwards rather than progress forwards.

How many AFL teams would stand by and let Brisbane get an automatic berth in the Grand Final?

Their are already flaws in the way the current teams are determined, as initial qualifying is done as if Rachuig was a singles tournament. The facts are the successful team members have to bowl in six 5 Person Teams per day over 3 days. Thus you want the best team bowlers not necessarily the best past the post bowlers.

I wonder how many bowlers actually bowl in 5 Person Teams these days. I don't think their would be many.

There may be some names not in the team this year that one could say should be! However, they all had the opportunity to enter the trials and make the team. Some of them had other commitments this year and chose not to enter.

What I don't like about these posts is the idea that the team that is their this year is an inferior one. This is not the case and is an afront to all bowlers who attempted to make any Rachuig team this year or any other year.

As the tournament is in Melbourne next year their cannot be any excuses for not trying out, providing you can get the time off from work commitments. If you reckon you should be in the Rachuig team enter the trials and prove it! If you don't enter then you do not want to represent the state and should keep your opinions to yourselves.

Automatic selection is not the way to go! It should be based on current performance at the time you were required to perform.

Regards
Jockey

 

[chucker]

EXCUSE ME TERRYi have never said this was an inferior team i have experience on WINNING TEAMS with selection and without and from this experience i have the right to express my opinion about this subject and if you ask your current captain you will find he has the same opinion as myself on the selection subject as we have discussed it on numurous occasions.i believe this team has the right to represent our fine state and hope the all bowl and learn alot from a great team player and captain in paul trotter.i will try out next year and prove i deserve to be there.
p.s if you guys believe you can win you will.

 

[jockey]

Let Me Rephrase

RE: Chucker's response!

I apologise if I implied that one does not have a right to their own opinion. That is not what I intended. After all this is simply my opinion and counts for nothing more than that.

I also realize and appreciate the support you guys were conveying for the current team. I understand you do not look on the team as inferior. However I understand that the team will need to do a lot to measure up to some of the Victorian Teams of yesteryear. After all Rachuig is about history and prestige for your home state.

I feel privileged to be on the team as I feel like I am taking Matto's rightful spot. But was delighted to see that he was chosen to go to Honk Kong.

What I was trying to get across, is, I suppose my frustration at the lack of new ideas in bowling these days. It seems when things don't appear to work (i.e. Rachuig Team decided through Trials appears not that strong) that the old ideas of automatic selection rear their ugly head again. I will not mention whining about lane conditions here as we can all write a novel on that regular gripe! What I will say is before blaming environment and equipment one should look inside thyself to see if their lies the problem first.

I don't know what the exact situation is but I wonder if an automatic selection process would be allowed now we come under the Australian Sports Commission? Maybe we can seek clarification on this.

Sport is about competition and thus until a better solution to the trials is devised I was simply stating that I don't see selection as the way to go.

I rather liked the way they decided the first Walter Daveer Teams in 1996. Bowlers bowled in 2 weekends of qualifying and the all events in the state championships. During the 2 weekends of qualifying bowlers bowled in four person teams (I think it was 16 games worth but it may have been more). This ensured you got the best team bowlers on the team to represent the state!

Have you guys got any alternative ideas apart from the selection one you put forward?

One can only hope that barring personal commitments we get a full turn out from all open level bowlers for the trials next year. It is in Melbourne and thus competing costs should be relatively low.

I look forward to seeing you all in the trials next year and wish you luck on making the team.

Regards
Jockey

 

[chucker]

jockey maybe we need to bowl over a greater number of games and have the trials further apart on 2 different conditions to get maybe the most versitile bowlers making the team.we could play each other once on each condition one wet one dry.and most important would be to have all the trials at forest hill next year instead of just the cheapest game rate i am sure bowlers wouldn't mind paying an extra $25 to bowl on conditions closer to centre it is being held at.

 

[skippy]

Just my 2 cents worth. I think Terry has miss understood
the selection that Chucker is talking about. The 2 methods as i understand it ,that TBA set for Rachuig team qualifying are trials with the first 7 past the post making the team ,and trials with the first five making the team and the last 2 positions are open for selection from those who have bowled the qualifying. Terry, players who have not attempted to qualify are not allegable
for selection, if we use the 5 and 2 selection method. So i hope that clears that a little. The only exception on selection would be if someone was drafted from another state...not likely to happen in Victoria in my lifetime. I do favour the 5 and 2 selection method as it gives our state the option to pick a great player from qualifying who may just have had a bad qualifying. The example
i would use here are is from 1996 (5 and 2 selection year) when Mark Malloy and Frank Ryan were 6th and 8th after qualifying...i defy anyone to suggest that these 2 players should not have been chosen.....yes Jason Way was unlucky to miss as he finished 7th however we all know the quality of these 2 great players and isnt the goal to win Rachuig...well the mens team went onto win that year. Under a selection process the committee along with the 5 past the post would be involved in the selection of the other 2...so that should mean that all will be above board and fair.

Trotts

 

[Buzzer]

New Selection Criteria

Nah heres a better option

Have as many people as possible come over to dandy and bowl League so they are available for Dunnshield Trials.

Who ever makes the Dandy Team is then decided as the Rachuig Team.

Cool huh? :lol:

(This is just a parody - Not to be taken seriously) [-X

 

[Lotus]

Thats cool, they may as well do the same thing for Pres Shield then, all the people should make the Junior Shield team, considering 5 bowlers were from Keon Park. :roll:

 

[Sumo]

First of all, BEST LUCK to the Vic Teams for Rachuig. Kick butt!!
(Especially Becca, from your Amflite team)

The subject of Rachuig and Dunn Shield representation came up in a long discussion I had thru the week, with an ex Vic Team member who no longer trials, but would probably still make it in any given year . The problem with Rachuig, in his view, is that the total cost of representing Victoria is too high. If you bowl Rachuig it is about the same cost as bowling 3 or 4 Super Six tourneys. With Rachuig there is no financial return, whereas he expected to come out in front in the Super Six tourneys.

His suggestion was that the competitors from all states put up $1000 each to a combined prizefund. Winning Team takes all. With $140,000 available to the winning team(10 teams by 14 bowlers), the very best bowlers are going to turn out. Makes sense to me.

GO VICS

Sumo

 

[Buzzer]

Good idea in theory but then who will be exptected to pay team lineage and expenses.

I don't believe the bowling organisations around Australia are now going to jump in and pay our way.

I'm all for the idea of having prizefund in Rachuig and Dunn Shield but the only way I see this happening is if the bowlers dig even deeper into their wallets.

Which takes us back to the original gripe. why should you pay to represent your state/centre.

Unfortunately Tenpin bowling is a luxury sport and not looked upon as a competitive sport in Australia or much of the world for that fact. Thats why we pay our own way and until Government bodies and funding is put into our sport I don't see it changing for quite some time.

 

[craig]

seeing i been around a while, i will add one thing to this subject

until the melbourne bowlers, especially the women come accross to be pretentious to us country folk, victoria will never field winning rachuig teams

i know at least 20 players from geelong alone that have been involved in successful campaigns and i know we haven't won 20 times :wink:

i personally dont have any issues with the melbourne folk, but i know over the years alot of noses have been put out of joint

victoria has to be ONE to be successful, the country needs the city as much as the city needs the country

this is not meant to upset anyone, it is not a personal attack on any individual, just something that has been noticed over 25 years

lets pull out the peace pipe, and get the wheels in motion, greatness has to start somewhere

 

[Abuse]

All i can say is selection sucks, it is an excuse for the people who think they should be in the team if they don't bowl well enough to make it. (It's ok i will be selected anyway). There are to many good VIC bowlers who are not in the circle who could finish 6th or 7th and not get in because so and so should be in the team.
When you are paying out this sort of money to represent your state with pride and finsh in the top 7 (which represents a team) you should be in the team and not have someone else who didn't perform on the day get in.

For all you people who think there are certain VIC bowlers who should make the team, Please list at least 6 of them if you can.

It would also be interesting for people to list who they think would make the best (strongest)team of 7 from the current bowlers in VIC + say another 3.

Then work out a way to get them all to bowl at the trials, and see if they are good enough to make it. This way we will have what everyone wants, and if someone gets in who people think should not be there. They bowled well enough to be in the team so give them a fair go before they even through a ball at the event as an event like this could really spark a great performance from people + help them acheive the next level in their game.

 

[chucker]

i would like to know who you think is in this circle you talk of abuse and whather you have been at a rachuig trial when selection has been used?i can not think of 6 or 7 bowlers who should be in the team but i will outline who i would put in automatically if i had a choice they would be the current captain paul trotter,jason way and craig chandler from emerson shield all stars the top 2 averages from dunn shield mac stewart and i cant think of his name off the top of my head i think he was from boronia and last of all who ever was the top 2 averages at country cup and that would give us a great start to a team from the whole of victoria and great bowlers who have performed currently in teams and not on any past performances.if i had to name another three i would start to be a little bias but i woluld suggest rod stewart who returned with a gold medal for australia in guam recently,anthony flynn who is in the top 10 in the country on rankings and we need a good leftb hander to perform well against the other states so you would have to say either terry siver who was in this years team or paul francis who captained dandy dunn shield to back to back victories until this year but they are both proven team bowlers.not bad i have given you a pretty handy eleven bowlers who have performed in team events getting all 11 to try out may be a bit tough but you never know.

 

[Sumo]

Chucker
The guy from Boronia was Mark Peters from memory. That's a very good 11 to start with Chucker. No arguments from me. You could probably add another 10 without losing much in the package!

As for Abuse's comments, have you tried out for Rachuig? I have, about 20 years ago and the last two years(long term injury in between cost me ten years of bowling). In each case the competition has been a straight shoot out. I'm not sure what you're trying to infer or stir up, Abuse. Bowlers barrack for their mates, so would you. There is no clique involved, it's undoubtedly tougher to get in the team for the first time and get recognition, but that is true in all endeavours.

Sumo

 

[skippy]

Hello fellow passionate Victorians.
Just quickly to answer Chucky about the whole city V country
thing....i hope that in the last few years we are all starting
to see the us V's them thing is something of the past...a number
of players from country areas have been regularly making the Rachuig teams in the last several years and this year Lisa from Mildura was the ladies Captain. i know i personally welcome anyone from any postcode to be in the team..i think we all agree that you dont have to live in a particular geographical area to be able to knock the pins over...and really, knocking the pins over, should be the most important criteria to be able to be in any team. I truly hope we are moving away from the past problems that Chucky is talking about.
We have a rare opportunity next year with Rachuig (and nationals) being held in Victoria to have another great crack
at the title...after a great attempt this year. Hopefully we should
be able to keep next years costs down and make Rachuig a little more accessible to more people....i can assure you winning in your home state is just magic. Therefore i urge everyone with the passion to represent this great state..to start planning early
and give Rachuig a go next year. We all want the title back in its
rightful place....and it will only come, if each year, we learn from the one before and if we continue to have passionate and committed players in the team. Lets Get It On in 2004 and bring home OUR trophy.

Paul Trotter

 

[Lotus]

I have to agree with Skippy on this one 100%