Unacredited Coaching

Recent threads on here Bagging out the TBA and More thought about why The sport is dieing prompt me to pose the question

" One of the reasons IMO there are so many Young adults Injured or killed in Motor vehicle accidents is due to in adequate training i.e. taught to drive by there parents not by a professional Instructor?
Can I assume the same be said about TenPin Bowling (or any sport for that matter)
The reason most drop out is because they find it to hard and confusing because there where never Instructed properly in the first place"

Thoughts???
 
May have something to do with the fact that when they leave juniors and hit the adult ranks they realize there off the gravy train. Mum & Dad aren't paying for everything anymore and they have to pay for it all themselves & only the really dedicated ones stick with it.
 
May have something to do with the fact that when they leave juniors and hit the adult ranks they realize there off the gravy train. Mum & Dad aren't paying for everything anymore and they have to pay for it all themselves & only the really dedicated ones stick with it.

Not necessary talking about Juniors
Talking bowlers in general
 
If you don't keep the juniors in the game its going to affect all areas down the line. Juniors, Youth, Adult and Seniors in years to come.
I remember a conversation 20 years ago when ATBSO started in 1991 I think. About when the adult tournament numbers were in rapid decline. He said ATBSO were getting huge numbers. I said give it 15 years and they'll be in the same predicament that the adult's were suffering then.

When was it that ATBSO dropped the age limit to 35 to boost numbers to there monthly tournaments
 
Chin is correct when he talks about juniors dropping out of bowling when they hit eighteen and join the adult ranks. Suddenly there is no mum or dad to pick up the 'tab' and their wages are not that great at that time.

I've always believed that we made a mistake by ending junior status at eighten. Many other countries including the US wait till they turn twenty one.

Those extra three years give the young bowlers a chance to complete at a lower cost until their income streams improve just a little.
 
Have you actually read my original post and what it is about??

How come when the word coaching is used everyone assumes Juniors

The majority of my students a Adults
 
Have you actually read my original post and what it is about??

How come when the word coaching is used everyone assumes Juniors

The majority of my students a Adults
Have YOU actually read your original post? You reference 'young adults' specifically, then this:
"Can I assume the same be said about TenPin Bowling (or any sport for that matter) The reason most drop out is because they find it to hard and confusing because there where never Instructed properly in the first place"

'Young adults' drop out for exactly the reasons mentioned. If you want a different answer ask the right question.
 
Recent threads on here Bagging out the TBA and More thought about why The sport is dieing prompt me to pose the question

" One of the reasons IMO there are so many Young adults Injured or killed in Motor vehicle accidents is due to in adequate training i.e. taught to drive by there parents not by a professional Instructor?
Can I assume the same be said about TenPin Bowling (or any sport for that matter)
The reason most drop out is because they find it to hard and confusing because there where never Instructed properly in the first place"

Thoughts???

Well, to be honest Nev, your original post ONLY refers to "Young adults". As such the inference would lead most people to believe you are referring to juniors/youth bowlers.

(On edit - Thanks for stealing my thunder Robbie! ;))


Having said that, I don't believe the coaching (or lack of) is the major reason for the drop off in league numbers. I personally believe the reason is due to the fact that league bowlers do not feel that the proprietors/governing body do enough for them. Every other sport has a club based model. IN this model, the club members have "exclusivity" to certain club facilities. This does not exist in tenpin bowling's model. And there, in my opinion, is the reason for the problem you (and indeed, the rest of us) are now observing.
 
Depends how you read it

Point taken Apology's
So I now pose the question

Could The reason some BOWLERS drop out is because they find it to hard and confusing because there where never Instructed properly in the first place
 
I don't think most drop out due to their lack of knowledge of the sport... I think it has more to do with cost. Not just the cost of bowling, it is the cost of day to day living with CPI not really keeping up with these increases. (That's assuming you get CPI increases annually in your wages)

Proper instruction however could give those who would leave the sport the confidence to keep plugging away and improving their own game. Personally, I've never been properly instructed and have had time away from the sport but this wasn't due to my lack of understanding... I love this sport and will continue to try and get better...

Also as a parent who pays for their kids to bowl, I'd like to think that when my kids are old enough to pay their own way that they will continue to bowl.
 
I think bowling has a near fatal flaw as a true sport.
I do expect to cop opposition to this statement, because all the people reading this are still bowling so they do not have the same needs from their sport as the people who did bowl and no longer do.
Please keep the above in mind when criticizing my thoughs.

Bowling lacks true head to head, moment by moment competition which many sports do have. Bowling is more a personal achievement where even when playing scratch against a single opponent, is a drawn out affair where you have no influence over your competitor, there is normally no pressure you or your opposition can apply to affect the next shot.
The only time bowling comes close to most sports in this regard is perhaps the 10th frame, the other 9 frames are only the personal part.
Bowling lacks watchability by friends and relatives, this affects the prestige psychologically in any achievements reached by the bowler.
Other sports are much more spectator friendly,that makes playing in the finals of a local comp more impressive if family and friends can see the struggle in the contest and the triumph when the battle is won.
I think this greatly affects how people who take up the sport, gradually tire of the personal achievement and lack of direct competition so leave the sport.
Bowling lacks grades in most competition, this reduces the desire to improve and affects the psychological worth of winning.
If everyone who entered the sport started in a low grade, bowled with people of similar ability, it would create a natural desire to improve and practice and reach for the next level above. This not only keeps people coming back a sport, it also creates prestige in being a higher grade player. In nearly every other sport, people strive to achieve the next level above.

When you ask "is lack of coaching the reason people leave bowling", I believe you have it arse up. You should ask "why are so many people not bothering to seek coaching or practicing when they start bowling like they do in other sports "
I think it's because of these psychological deficiencies that bowling has entrenched in how we play .
 
May have something to do with the fact that when they leave juniors and hit the adult ranks they realize there off the gravy train. Mum & Dad aren't paying for everything anymore and they have to pay for it all themselves & only the really dedicated ones stick with it.

In my 1st post as hilighted i wasnt targeting juniors. I said when bowlers LEAVE juniors and hit the adult ranks (which in my view puts them in your YOUNG ADULT category)
 
I think bowling has a near fatal flaw as a true sport.
I do expect to cop opposition to this statement, because all the people reading this are still bowling so they do not have the same needs from their sport as the people who did bowl and no longer do.
Please keep the above in mind when criticizing my thoughs.

Bowling lacks true head to head, moment by moment competition which many sports do have. Bowling is more a personal achievement where even when playing scratch against a single opponent, is a drawn out affair where you have no influence over your competitor, there is normally no pressure you or your opposition can apply to affect the next shot.
The only time bowling comes close to most sports in this regard is perhaps the 10th frame, the other 9 frames are only the personal part.
Bowling lacks watchability by friends and relatives, this affects the prestige psychologically in any achievements reached by the bowler.
Other sports are much more spectator friendly,that makes playing in the finals of a local comp more impressive if family and friends can see the struggle in the contest and the triumph when the battle is won.
I think this greatly affects how people who take up the sport, gradually tire of the personal achievement and lack of direct competition so leave the sport.
Bowling lacks grades in most competition, this reduces the desire to improve and affects the psychological worth of winning.
If everyone who entered the sport started in a low grade, bowled with people of similar ability, it would create a natural desire to improve and practice and reach for the next level above. This not only keeps people coming back a sport, it also creates prestige in being a higher grade player. In nearly every other sport, people strive to achieve the next level above.

When you ask "is lack of coaching the reason people leave bowling", I believe you have it arse up. You should ask "why are so many people not bothering to seek coaching or practicing when they start bowling like they do in other sports "
I think it's because of these psychological deficiencies that bowling has entrenched in how we play .

Love this concept. We see it in lower grades of cricket, AFL football and in countless other sports. How on earth would you manage this? I wouldn't have the foggiest.

My fear in this model is the obvious - the glory hounds will always find a way to exploit - or 'manage their averages' to continue winning. Not much can be done about that, but when introducing this model to a new bowler, one might be discouraged by losing to the bowler who doesn't have the same drive or ambition - which in time - may turn them away.

Brenton raises a good point also - give a league bowler exclusivity - and I mean a little more than 50c off your large cup of premix drink at the cafe. That's not the sole reason league bowlers join. If there was an incentive for them to keep coming back, I'm sure they would. Give them a VIP room with exclusive access to half the bar. Serve food in a secluded 'restaurant-type' area. Charge a $50-$100 VIP membership for the year. God knows we all spend way too much time in bowling centres - may as well feel like a VIP whilst there!

At the end of the day, it's the LEAGUE bowler - NOT the social player - that continuously provides the income for these centres to run.
 
Love this concept. We see it in lower grades of cricket, AFL football and in countless other sports. How on earth would you manage this? I wouldn't have the foggiest.

My fear in this model is the obvious - the glory hounds will always find a way to exploit - or 'manage their averages' to continue winning. Not much can be done about that, but when introducing this model to a new bowler, one might be discouraged by losing to the bowler who doesn't have the same drive or ambition - which in time - may turn them away.

Brenton raises a good point also - give a league bowler exclusivity - and I mean a little more than 50c off your large cup of premix drink at the cafe. That's not the sole reason league bowlers join. If there was an incentive for them to keep coming back, I'm sure they would. Give them a VIP room with exclusive access to half the bar. Serve food in a secluded 'restaurant-type' area. Charge a $50-$100 VIP membership for the year. God knows we all spend way too much time in bowling centres - may as well feel like a VIP whilst there!

At the end of the day, it's the LEAGUE bowler - NOT the social player - that continuously provides the income for these centres to run.

"Glory Hounds" Have you noticed how other sports dont appear to have a problem with individuals or teams sandbagging ?
I think thats because the grading system focuses the glory and incentive towards being in the higher grade and reduces if not eliminates the tendancy to perform less than your very best. The recognition factor I touched on, also helps, so that people always strive to be better at their sport. That is not the case in majority of bowling league competitors, they barely get interested in the comp and rarely ever practice with a desire to improve.
Brenton's Idea as a bolt on addition to what bowlers are offered is a good addition but does seem to be necessary for other sports and for that reason I say it's a great idea but does not address the flaw within the sport.

I'm developing a plan and putting my own money where my mouth is, which will test my theories of why Bowling has many of the systemic problems it appears to have.
Over the next few months I intend to roll out a three pronged suite of ideas or concepts to see if the Bowling Community, the Centres and the general public will warm to what I am presenting.
I do hope to change bowling, and I know the likelihood of successfully being accepted is extremely remote, however I dont want to die wondering.
I think I have hijacked this thread longer than I should have but I think many of the individual issues such as coaching, sandbagging, lack of drive to improve skills and ultimately the reason why the sport is struggling, all have a central thread which needs to be worked on.
So far, I'm having a go at answering some of the questions myself but would like nothing more if the TBA and Centres and Bowlers all got together and looked at the big picture answers which might drive the sport forward. Everyone in bowling has a vested interest to see the sport continue and grow and prosper, I think now would be a good time to start with a clean sheet of paper and look at every alternative of what could be changed to better the sport.
Anyhow, off my soapbox .
 
Robbie, golf handicap and bowling handicap...you join the dots.
I'm here trying to look at every angle to "keep it running"
 
If you don't keep the juniors in the game its going to affect all areas down the line. Juniors, Youth, Adult and Seniors in years to come.
I remember a conversation 20 years ago when ATBSO started in 1991 I think. About when the adult tournament numbers were in rapid decline. He said ATBSO were getting huge numbers. I said give it 15 years and they'll be in the same predicament that the adult's were suffering then.

When was it that ATBSO dropped the age limit to 35 to boost numbers to there monthly tournaments
 
To bowl atbso seniors week, the age limit is 45. Atbso in wa is open to all ages because we have so many bowlers of all ages wanting to bowl in our monthly tournaments. You just have to be 45 to do atbso masters and challenge. Why knock back those who want to bowl ?
 
nev, I take it from your original post, that you believe that only an accredited coach would be capable of giving proper coaching, either to a beginner, or someone who wants to improve their game ?
 
nev, I take it from your original post, that you believe that only an accredited coach would be capable of giving proper coaching, either to a beginner, or someone who wants to improve their game ?

No Im saying Accredited coaches will give a more uniform coaching

Just yesterday while I was working at the bowl
A new bowler (lady in her 50s) came and asked me if she could attend my coaching seasions that I hold Monday nights
She had bowled in our travel league for the first time yesterday and was told 5 yes 5 different things from five different bowlers
and of course was extremily confused

Thats when most people find it to hard and drop out is it not
 
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