Tournament nominations

[amagill]

First of all, good post CO.

In regards to your below quote, there are already a number of tournaments in Aus, that do make the deposits non-refundable, something like a month before the tournament. Example, last year, I nominated myself for the QLD Open in Caboolture, a couple of months in advance. After about a month, I learned I was moving house on the same weekend. I contacted the TD (still a little over 1 month out from the tournament), and Mary Flower was more than happy to return my deposit, had I given her 1 weeks notice, no deposit returned....

I think, barring exceptional circumstances, pulling out of a tournament with very little notice, should not warrant a refund of deposit....

There are a number of issues, one of them being prize funds.

Even if the deposit became non-refundable a month out from the tourney or something would be better than it is now.

There is always a certain squad people all seem to want to bowl. It fills up in no time yet by the time tourneys come around a number of those people don't bowl. Squad choice should only be allowed once the deposit is paid. Fair on all. Let me put it another way. How many people don't go to tourneys because they can't get in the squad(s) they want?

Centres cater etc for these tourneys. Other arrangements are made based on entries.

There current system obviously doesn't work as it allows this to happen.

 

[Phluff]

To be honest, I had thought it was getting better than it used to be a few years ago. I know with my Victorian Sports Series, 2 years ago I would have had 50 names down 3 days before the event and be left with maybe 20-30 on the day. This year I think the worst "no-show/late withdrawl" I had was when instead of the 62 people I had down, only 56 turned up.

There is no right or wrong answer. Requiring deposits should become the standard, however the downside to that is people not registering until they are 100% sure (ie the day or week before) which can lead to administration headaches. Non refundable deposits would ensure prize funds, however people may hesitate to pay the deposit again till the last moment to save losing their money. Basing the prize fund on a lower number of entries would ensure you deliver that or more, however lower advertised payouts can mean lower entries.

 

[Roysa]

Exactly Phluff...

well said!

 

[*chook :>*]

Just some facts for those against non refundable deposits.. Not quite 2 weeks ago we had 90 names down to bowl our tournament here in Mildura. Now we are down to almost 70. 20 people could not have all been called into work. I do understand that circumstances change. But I also know some reasons why these peopke have had to pull out..
-Moved interstate so (assuming) finances are tight * knew about the move months ago
-Forgot to book flights and now 1 1/2 weeks out they cost to much * experienced tournament bowlers did not research
-Accommodation cost to much to book 2 weeks out * its summer and Australia day weekend in a highly sought out holiday location- PEAK rates apply so again bolwers didnt research

These I know from at least 7 of those who pulled out and Iunderstand that thy are valid excuses but who leaves organising these details until 1 1/2 - 2 weeks before a tournament?!?! We have also had to chase bowlers who we heard across thethe grapevine that they were no longer coming. They didnt even call to tell us themselves.
I think a deposit should be paid and from a month out should be non refundable.

 

[Casual Observer]

...............

 

[Roysa]

Comes back to personal responsibility. Saying you havent booked a flight is really not a reason that is acceptable.

Im not saying those people have done the right thing, they certainly have let many people down, i just think that the sport isnt strong enough to demand people pay a deposit given there are circumstances (like Neil's case) where if he has to pull out he will lose his deposit.

Maybe playing hardball on deposits might work, but i think it might also reduce numbers accross the board. This thread should have been a poll, would of been interesting to see the votes.

 

[Scuzz]

I used to work afternoon/night shift every weekend for nearly 10 years. If I wanted a weekend off to go away bowling I woulud organize time off or someone to cover my shifts 2-3 months in advance so I could organize reasonable airfares and only then enter the Tournament. Wasnt that hard to do.

If your a definite starter wheres the problem paying a deposit to secure your spot. If you know you may have a problem getting time of work put your name down and take your chances of getting bumped to another squad if all the other bowlers in squad have secured there spot by paying there deposit.

When the last time there has been a totally full tournament with reserves waiting that didnt get a run, 199?. Senior tournament excluded.

The above bolded sentence pretty much sums up my view, if you NEEDED to pay a deposit soon to get into a tournament there would be alot more deposits paid. However this is not the case as many past threads have stated.

If it did become a strict rule, enforcing people to pay deposits to secure squads, i wouldnt be even contacting anyone untill the week before hand simply for the fear of loosing my deposit, if this means i bowl in an unpreffered squad, so be it. I work too hard for my money to loose it over an unexpected problem.

 

[Casual Observer]

This mentality and comment is completely uncalled for. You're either ignorant of the issue at hand or attempting to troll Gary into a negative post. Not supporting his home tournament? Very uninformed thing to say. Just because he knows his limits in terms of tournament bowling, doesn't mean there's no support. Has he organized sponsorship, put proposals to council, organized Thursdays BBQ, is he TD ffs? You have no idea, so get off your soap box.

Not very often I agree with Gary but I think given he was the OP people immediately take the opposite stance without reading or looking into the issue at hand.

It's an interesting point that deserves some constructive debate, not the usual 'stfu CO, get a life' crap. Try organizing a big tournament with over 100 people and 15,000 in sponsorship and then get some perspective.

James, the attempt is appreciated but all the work done for the Mildura tourney, chasing sponsors, organising everything was done by Dean and Ray. I am not TD (that I know of) and they organised the BBQ and skins. I had nothing to do with any of it. Dean and Ray deserve all the credit for putting together the tournament.

Anyway, this thread is not about the Mildura tourney so I will leave it there.

 

[Casual Observer]

CO... Really? Why even start the thread... This coming from a guy that won't even support his home centres tourny.. Grow up mate, and get off the soap box

Ppl sometimes can't attend a tourny.. Its been this way for a long, long time.. Deal with it

This thread is not about one tourney, it is about tourneys in general. How many people were happy with what happened at Berri a short time ago? None of that was Steve's fault, he did what he needed to do when the bowlers let him down and to his credit he ran the tourney regardless. How many people have been unhappy with reduced prize funds at other tourneys?

I wasn't going to dignify your post with a response as it appears you have difficulty even understanding the thread but I will put it out in the open for all to see. For about 20 years I have supported almost everything the Sunraysia Tenpin bowl has done in relation to tourneys and so on. I have been a member of the local association, represented Sunraysia, I still sign every cheque the association writes. I have served as President of a number of leagues and Secretary/Treasurer in the past. I have spent countless hours behind the scenes working stuff out to make sure tourneys run properly, including sleepless nights doing last minute stuff.

I have actually done some work behind the scenes for this tourney that I wasn't even going to mention because it is Dean and Ray's tourney made by them for the bowlers. They don't need this **** when all they are doing is trying to create something for other people to enjoy. Then along comes some misinformed dickhead who questions my support when it isn't even related to the thread?

I am not bowling due to financial restraints. I had every intention of bowling then I got $3800 in bills to pay. Not that it is any of your business but now everyone knows.

 

[Casual Observer]

In hindsight the poll is a good idea. I might see if i can add one later.

The non-refundable deposit was just one idea. I am sure there are others.

 

[bluey]

James, the attempt is appreciated but all the work done for the Mildura tourney, chasing sponsors, organising everything was done by Dean and Ray. I am not TD (that I know of) and they organised the BBQ and skins. I had nothing to do with any of it. Dean and Ray deserve all the credit for putting together the tournament.

Anyway, this thread is not about the Mildura tourney so I will leave it there.

Credit where credit is due, well said.
The only event I'm aware of that fills most squads is Qld Open and deposits are paid by most, however many other events don't fill so paying a deposit isn't as crucial. Unfortunately l can't see enforcing deposits as the answer simply due to the fact that we don't have the volume of interest for people to worry about it. I've recently started a new job that sees me unavailable for 2 weeks straight and it could be thrown out of balance literally days before an event and there aint nothing l'll be able to do about it, it's just the nature of some peoples work. Those that just don't feel like it or don't get flights in time should really be more considerate.

 

[becka_girl]

I am pretty sure National Youth Cup was full and that was only two weeks ago and they had to open up every single squads to allow the reserves to come in

 

[Casual Observer]

Very uninformed thing to say. Just because he knows his limits in terms of tournament bowling,

What limits would they be James? You really have no idea but I have said that before.

In fact, one could almost call you "uninformed".

 

[bluey]

Sorry Bec I never look at youth events but great turnout by the sounds of it.

 

[mickyd213]

When I put my name down for an event, I do so with the intention of bowling in it. As a rotating shift worker it is easier for me to organise time off when I know I'm rostered on then it is when you're meant to be off... When I'm off I'm on call and can have as little as 30 minutes notice.

Having said that though, I have no problem paying deposits for events. But I think if every effort has been made to notify the bowl or tourney director prior to the event then your deposit should be refunded... I wouldn't expect a refund if I pulled out anytime within the last week leading up to the event.

 

[gwhiting]

This is an interesting topic.

As mentioned by other posters bowlers usually only pay a desposit if they want to get into a certain squad. This tends to be the B squad so the centre can say if you want to bowl this squad you need to pay a desposit to secure your spot. The centre has the advantage because they have x amount of spots with generally more bowlers wanting a spot.

For A squad there is generally more spots than bowlers. There are exceptions to this like National Youth which fills all squads because they have a lot of junior bowlers who are bowling.

Making bowlers pay a non-refundable desposit sounds good in theory but I am not sure that it will work. However it should state on the entry form that if you withdraw a week before the tournament you will lose your desposit.

The worst people as the ones who just don't turn up or get other people to let the bowl know on the day. The tournament organisers are the ones who put in the time and effort to organise the event and not turning up is just poor form.

 

[Casual Observer]

Poll has been added as discussed previously in the thread.

 

[amagill]

I voted for yes, but make them non-refundable a month out from the tournament, but, I reckon their should be another option of about 2 weeks out from tournament date. One month may be a bit too long for non-refundable, 1 week is not long enough. If that makes sense...

 

[bowlrig]

I voted no and I think the solution is fairly simple.

Using the Sunraysia Cup as an example......we have a list of 97 names, 65 of which bowled the tournament. Next year we have this list at our disposal. If anyone that had their name down this year and pulled out puts their name down next year their name will not go onto the squad list until they pay a deposit.

This way we do not have an inflated squad list followed by deflated tounament organisers. We have a more realistic expectation of the tournament.

One of the excuses for pulling out of the Sunraysia Cup that confuses me a little was....."I would have had to take the Friday off work to bowl but if the holiday was on the Monday then taking the Friday off to travel would have been ok."

Rob

 

[Animal]

You won`t win Rob.
Animal