Team Commitment! (or lack of it)

[Nighteyes300]

Originally Posted by jedi_bowler
Groups like the MTBA and CTBAM need to be disbanded or forced to join and be a branch of the TBA.

OK, I'm a director of the MTBA, We pay fees to TBA, so does the CTBAM. That would make us a branch would it not? If you’re going to mention the sanctioning bodies that need to be disbanded why not include others such as TQI, or Tenpin Sydney and the other various STATE bodies that govern our sport. It's comments like yours above that bring this game into disrepute!! The Committee's of Governing bodies, State and Australia wide, bust their asses to keep this game as fair and as fun as possible. Without them this entire game would be a shambles!!

 

[Buzzer]

I'm not sure if thats what Jedi Meant Nighteyes- correct me if I am wrong Jedi but the fact that our sport (at a state level)has two governing bodies is a major confusing topic for most.

I understand what problems have gone on in the past which has led to two governing bodies at a state and League level ie MTBA and CTBAM state sides and league awards etc. I am not asking committees to put aside their differences and join each other because I know how stubborn a subject this is but for newer bowlers who do not understand what has happened in the past this must be a very confusing topic. if you knew nothing of the split back in the days of atbc and mtba what would you think of the way bowling is run today. We have two state sides. the question is always going to be asked - which one is better. i'm not asking for this question to be answered as this is a completely different debate - and unfortunately it only comes down to the association the bowlers are a member of in most cases.
Both sides have equally great bowlers.

Put most of these teams together and wow you have some sensational talent. its just a pitty we have different associations splitting them apart. You can be elidgable, to be a member of both state sides if you are a member of both associations . - how contradicting is that. Being a member of two state sides!
If you saw this kind of direction in any sport what would you think – I know I’d be thinking its all messed up. Look at it from an outsiders point of view - to see any sport split up between two governing bodies due to indifferences has never been respected or terribly successful. many a sport has suffered due to associations splitting down the middle and taking players away to become part of another equall playing field.

I’m not here to say which association is better – they both can take a hint or two from one another as they both have their good and bad attributes. They do however have great followers and members working their hardest ( mostly devoted bowlers who work for no fee)

No matter how good these individuals are the fact remains that bowling is split between two organisations. Yes they report to one national body. big deal. this just means they get a bit of cake from two parties. “mmmm cake”

The following is just something I’d always hoped the bowling scene would get right. – unfortunately I can’t see a day where this would ever happen…..

One national body managing 1 association per state & Territory that all worked together. Numerous City and Country members that report to the state committees. Working together under the same award and recognition program.
We are all here to bowl, we all knock down the same number of pins on the same style of playing field. So why should we be divided by different state groups.
We all would like to see bowling respected as an elite sport but at times we neglect to give bowling the respect we so dare demand. The above I believe is a factor why we do not get the respect we would like and would love to appreciate if we ever get the chance.
How much more special would it be to be a member of a state side if you only had one association to answer to. Most will never know how good state sides really are when you don’t get a chance to pick all your eggs from the same basket.

There you go – I rambled on a bit longer than I anticipated but I’m sure this has been on the mind of many for years.

 

[jedi_bowler]

Buzzer thanks you for your post I couldn't of said it better myself. It's nice to see I am not alone in how I see things, and that someone understood my rambling

Nighteyes300 As I said I can't comment on other states my views are only based on my experience in Victoria.

I understand you pay your fee's to the TBA but you are still your own group with your own views and agendas just like the CTBAM. Why have 3 committees Governing bowling in (VIC) with there own agendas. Why not have one united group trying to better our sport. I know all parties involved are trying to better and improve our game, but as long as we have 3 factions we will always have bowlers in these factions frowning on the others. I know the MTBA and CTBAM are constantly at war as to who has more Leagues on there side. This Grabbing of leagues is by nature a negative and aggressive act. Now most bowlers don't see this most bowlers don't care about this it doesn't affect them either way. But what hope do we have if we can't even stand united under the one group. Lets face facts bowling in this country is in a bad way. How many tournaments in the last 12 to 24 months in this country have been called off due to lack of numbers or lack of interest. Now people will always bowl (Cos we are addicted) but like a tired old horse it will continue to limp along year after year and the number of competitive bowlers will continue to decline. If we were united we could look as one group at what is causing these problems and fix them.
We could start looking and focusing on more Junior Development Cos god knows if we have no juniors coming through we aren’t going to have any seniors in the future. Look at the decline at Junior Shield in Vic, We have a few up and coming Juniors but every year more and more centers have to drag in Juniors because they don't get enough roll off in there center qualifying.
Now we don't have to go down the same road as the U.S it’s like comparing apples and Oranges, we are never going to get good air time on TV. But we need to find solutions that will work for us. Solutions that will build awareness for bowling and bring in more sponsors for tournaments and start building some credibility in this game we love so much.
Now I have only been bowling for 8 years compared to most semi serious bowlers it’s a drop in the ocean but from what I have observed these seem to be taboo subjects and people know these problems exist but don't say anything.
Now god knows I don't have the answers but if people don't start voicing there concerns and we don't start coming together as one united group these problems are going to continue for years to come.

So TBA your at the top of the tree, it starts with you.

Daniel (Frosty)
Forest Hill
Victoria
Australia
Earth
Milky Way

 

[melboleo]

Guys...

This post was originally about team committment such as your Dunn Shield and Rauchig and so on...

How did the the governing bodies get included in this topic???

What does the governing bodies have to do with team members coming in for a practice session? Sorry to be negative but at the end of the day, it comes down to the individuals who make up the team and how committed they are in making the team come togeather.

Have to use Chaddy Dunn Shield as an example...

Lee and Paul - Great friends and bowlers too...
Leo, Bernie, Edgar and Eka - bowl 3 leagues a week togeather and meet up almost every weekend for lunch or dinner at someones house (Eka was a reserve on the team and did not miss a practice session and ended up as an all star)
Terry - don't think he missed a practice session for last years team.

Bottom line is, we all love our bowling and it is this passion for the game and making a team that gives us the motivation to come in and practice. It comes down to the individuals and unfortunately. nothing else.

Melbo

 

[jedi_bowler]

melboleo thanks for the post. Good comments, Chaddy has always been a strong unit and with Lee and Paul added to the mix you guys are going to be tough to beat.
You are right this has gone way off topic, but once I started rambling the words just flowed, this game is something I feel passionately about and I get a little carried away at time.

Daniel (Frosty)
Forest Hill
Victoria
Australia
Earth
Milky Way

 

[becky22]

Hey all, just thought I would have a little say.

Team bonding is one of the most important aspects in any team event. If there is a problem between any members of the team, the rest of the team will have a problem.

I have seen it many times in representative teams from Sunshine (especially in juniors). A few years ago, one of our female junior members had an issue with another female and it distracted the entire team. It didn't help that one of them was made captain of the team without the team being consolted.

Which brings me to another point. Representing a centre means you must bowl in a league in the centre. So if someone only bowls for the centre and not in a league, would they deserve to be captain of the team? I know at a centre (can't remember where) there is a person who believes they are the best and deserves to be captain, but only bowls for representative sides.

Anyway, to end, people shouldn't blow off family committments for bowling or any sport, but should instead try to attend later or inform the people involved that they are unable to attend training (or whatever else)

That's my two cents, catchya Bec

 

[chloe_p]

bec i agree with u there. this person bowls for the centre, but in a travel league. only some of the games are bowled at the home centre and s/he doesnt even show up to half of these, usually because s/he cant be bothered. this person does not deserve to be captain because they havent put the effort in like everyone else in the team and they havent even bothered to get to know the other teammates.

 

[grumpie]

We have been talking about team bonding.
I bowled in the Richard Hall Cup on Sunday (seniors). To give you an idea of format the teams were drawn out on the morning of play,2 scratch 2 h/c bowlers, being new to the seniors i dont know to many of the bowlers but once we started bowling we seem to have been very comftable with each other. There were no egos in the team, if one bowler had a bad game the others seem to have covered them. There was no badgering about having a bad game and no sulking,we just got out there and had FUN.

Isn't this what team bowling is all about.

By the way we finished 2nd,not bad for people that had never realy met before.

 

[chucker]

to grumpie rachuig is open to everyone and has no restrictions on age or average! that is why it is the only true state team!i never said the seniors were no good why would i say this considering my dad is the best senior in the asain zone!not sure what your trying to start?

 

[Tam]

Ok ok ok enough is enough on the arguement of what makes a state team a true state team or not... Regardless of what people say or think, do not knock ECCC until you have experienced it yourself... This is a very competitive tourniment between the states on the east coast of Australia... With the comments you make undergrade the bowlers that have bowled ECCC and try out for both Rachiug and ECCC... There are alot of bowlers that can not afford to try out for both and ECCC is less costily not to mention you get a subsidy... I have been involved in ECCC since 1997 and to hear people degrading this tourni without even giving it a shot it is bloody shameful!!! The people that make any State team should be proud of accomplashing just that, reperesenting your state in a team you tried out for, so please do not try and take that away from them, which seems to be what is going on here... I can not believe alot of the things i have read on here and its comments and put downs, even though maybe not direct that give our sport of bowling a bad name.... Look at your All stars in your shield teams majority of which are ECCC bowlers heck even Narelle Baker an AUSTRALIAN REPRESENTATIVE bowls ECCC why because it is a friendly tourniment that is highly competative... Anyone that knocks ECCC without even experiencing it for themselves is nothing but a bloody snob, and too scared of failure... We get more people try out for ECCC every year than what Rachiug can, Heck we even double it and do so year in and year out...

Regards,

Tamara Darmenia

 

[grumpie]

Chucker
Not trying to start anything realy,but Rachuig maybe the main open state team but you say there are no restrictions,there is at least one, nobody under the age of 18 may tryout. But there i'm nit picking and yes most people would like to bowl Rachuig for there state.
Yet there are other state teams,there are the teams of seniors, deveer, president shield then you have the east coast teams. You cant say these team dont try as hard or some of them my even try harder,they all have a point to proove and that is to try to win the tournament for there state. They are out there as a team not as individuals.

This forum is about how to get team commitment and if the team is bonded as a unit. It dosn't matter what team it is unless a team is commited and bonds together, they will never perform well as a team.Those teams that have people sitting on the bench,the ones on the bench should be behind the team supporting the players. If you are on the bench there is normaly a reason for it, so if you are a well bonded team those on the bench will be able to pump themselves up and be able to step into there team without pressure.
It dosn't matter what type of team it is,being rachuig, deveer,seniors,dunn shield, country cup,emerson or your league team,without being well bonded and commited you just don't have a team. There is nothing worse than bowling in a league team (or any other team) when there is a member in the team that just dosn't care what they bowl or if they even turn up.
So i will finish up by saying that it doesn't matter what team it is unless the individuals become a team they will never win.
Team commitment means everything, when this happens the team becomes bonded.When a team is bonded they become the hardest team to beat regardless of level of play. This would apply in any team sport not just ours.

So if anybody wants to bowl team events they must become the team not just a bowler. Maybe i just expect to much from my team but i know that it is more enjoyable to bowl in a bonded team than to bowl in a team that thinks they are the best individual bowlers around.
I enjoy tournaments but if it is a singles tournament or a teams tournament you have to approch them totaly different.

 

[renta]

We have the same problems as most teams as far as practice it a hard thing to get everyone together in this day & age of bowling at dandy ....We have alot team bowling in all sorts of comps,Then there is the issue of fund raising !!!! One of the things we do is have a golf day which both sides play in & everyone has a ball ...The same day we have a barbyQ a few drinks ....its fine to get everyone to practice but for myself if its on a sat it cost me money as that is a day of work for me ,,,,,I know that I have to bowl the 2 days thats fine .I have accepted that ..You might find this is also maybe a concern for some of your players....The up shot I guess for us is most of us bowl the same night so we do catch up a little then ....I have 2 things I love in life sporting wise is bowling & fishing ...Fishing is a major part of my life as well ....there are so many different things that can effect this problem I could keep going but no....regards mick

 

[Buzzer]

who was knocking ECCC?

I'd love to bowl in this event but like you said Tam it can become quite expensive trying out to bowl in every state team that is out there.

My choice to bowl is and always has been decided on funds available and of course availabilty of time on the bowling calendar and most definately not by fear of failure. Love to know who you were aiming these comments at.

I don't think any one means to knock Either Rachuig or ECCC its just unfortunate that bowlers always get too defensive and retaliate just because of who they are sanctioned by instead of putting their heads together
to see whats more important and thats the success of bowling not how many different organisations we can belong too and fight like children over which ones BETTER. Its not a debate I would like to get into as neither side will win in the long run. (and bowling will lonly lose AGAIN.)

its just a shame that our organisations exist the way they do to segragate the enourmous talent our states have potentially for Bowling success.

my comments were an "ONLY IF" and not to degrade anyone

Thats just how I feel about this topic. Its even more dissapointing people hide behind their organisations and don't say anything about what they think would be better. Life always demands improvement - its the way the human race is built - I can just see a better way than what we have now. If people think this is degrading to others I'm sorry they feel that way. as I honestly can't see who it would be degrading.

melboleo - sorry for going off topic yet again but in my defense the author of this thread had brought this discussion up also so I find it more than valid to talk about it in this thread.......

I would also like to know why so many bowlers are afraid to talk about this subject. whether we talk about it in this thread or not?????????

 

[MR HOLD3M]

hey Renta you should be called King Snapper.lol .Buzzer maybe you should start another thread regarding sanctioning bodies.Practice sessions hmmmm what are they! We being Sunshine had our DUNN SHIELD rolloff a while ago now and still havent had one but as Renta mentioned it is hard to get everyone together on a set date .heh Leo look forward to playing against Chaddy and the good sportsmanship .make sure Bernie is in for that game so he can appease himself LOL. Thanks .

 

[melboleo]

Ralphy, ralphy... You are always welcome back at Chaddy. Even though you took one away from the Chaddy Boyz. Thanks for the sportsmans gratitude. We don't like loosing but we can't win them everytime... See you in the next one OK, make sure you're not working.

Guys, again, as Buzzer said and graciously apologised, we are heading off course again with all these comments about the bodies and what have you and so on again.

Buzzer, start a new thread about the governing bodies and whatever and lets all have a decent forum. As Buzzer mentioned, this is an open discussion so there is no need to bag any state/team/body out and above all, lets not get too personal.

It is so abvious that we all love our bowling so lets come up with productive comments and suggestions on how we may help move the sport forward instead of backwards....

Leo

PS. Buzzer, who are you? PM pls.

 

[Buzzer]

just check out my public profile dude,

i'm not hiding anything.

 

[Tam]

Buzzer,
My post was not in response to what you posted on this forum it was in response to Chucker stating that the only true state team was Rachuig... There shouldnt be a debate on what is atrue state team and what isnt... A state team is just that and i found that comment made by Chucker insulting to those who have represented our state in other teams such as ECCC etc. ECCC is the longest running interstate challange and people should give it the respect it deserves.

This forum is for people to express there views that are compassionate about the sport of tenpin bowling. It doesnt matter what sport you compete in there is always going to be more than 1 singular sanctioned body and it may seem silly but i dont think that is about to change anytime a soon. They are all affiliated with each other and go by the TBA rules and also have a rule book of there own.

As for what this actual post being about team commitment unfortunately there are tourniments happening all the time and family commitments etc that will come up when organising practices. As long as the same people do not miss all practice sessions/meetings etc it shouldnt be a major issue... Everyone has a life outside of bowling whether it be having a family or like myself working 2 jobs or illness nothing is ineitable and not always are times and dates going to suit everyone.

Tam

 

[Nighteyes300]

OK, you guys want team bonding??? I'll give you team bonding.
Now correct me if i am wrong but Rachuig is 2 teams of 7 bowlers plus 2 managers plus a coach? thats 19 people, fairly tough to get everyone together and bonded i agree.
East Coast Challenge Cup (ECCC) 9 teams of 7 bowlers (Men Open & Graded, Ladies Open & Graded, U21 Boys Open & Graded, U21 Girls Open & Graded, Seniors Graded) plus 1 manager per team (2 for seniors) plus a coach, if my calculations are correct thats 63 bowlers, 10 managers and 1 coach (should i include the partridge in a pear tree??? lol) total of 74 people.
These 74 people not only bond within their own team but bond with every other participant that wears the same VICTORIAN shirt that's on their own backs.

To me nothing beats that team bonding.

John Costantini
Proud director of the MTBA.
Proud wearer of 2005 ECCC Victorian Shirt.

 

[The Motley Crew]

I total agree with tam and john. I have been involved with ECCC since 1996 and it is greatest tournament I have been involved with. It is the biggest team bonding I have been involved with. Those who criticize should try it first.
:evil: :-x [-X [-X

Tim Martin
MTBA Director
Co-Manager Youth Boys.

 

[chucker]

excuse me i never once mentioned east coast and personally critisized thier event!was actually considering bowling east coast next year as i have heard it is a great team event and team events are always a high priority on my bowling calander.let me know if i am welcome or not?