Super 6 tourney this weekend..anyone interested. $4000 1st

[Graham]

Could AMF be to blame? Yes, they have done their best to put up thousands of dollars for a Super Six Tour but cancelling the Sydney tournament scheduled for Penrith the weekend on account of a lack of entries is a BAD idea. Is AMF going to reimburse all the bowlers for expenses? ie: Airfares, etc? Cancelling this tournament at the last second sucks! There is NEVER an excuse for doing that..repeat NEVER!

Wayne

This is not the official word from AMF, but I was on the fringe of it all when this was happening yesterday morning.

All bowlers were individually called, and with from memory a total of 4 interstaters involved. One of them transferred his flight to bowl in the NSW Grand Prix in a few weeks, one of them wasn't concerned because they were visiting family anyways, the other one didnt have a problem, and I think the only one who couldn't get their money back from the airlines was reimbursed by AMF.

 

[Kimbo]

So many issues arising from this topic it's hard to know where to start.

Was discussing this at length over dinner last night with my husband who is a 15 year veteran AMF employee and here are a few things we came up with:

1. I commented on the fact that interstaters that may have had non-refundable airline tickets would be spewing at this decision - great to see that everyone was contacted in (hopefully) a professional manner and had options offered for this problem. Congratulations to Warren and his tournament team.

2. Problems with tournament bowling - well these are many and varied but it goes without saying that it is a two way street, not only does a bowler need incentive and some attraction to spend their cash to bowl, the centre also needs to see some benefit from holding a tournament. Strange to say that I know but both sides have to be happy.

I May be preaching to the choir here but some may not know that DESPITE the appearance, most if not all centres LOSE money by holding a tournament (AMF or private) in comparison to a normal weekend of social play. Now before everyone jumps in by saying bah humbug not on your life, the upshot of this discussion was maybe offer some economic advice to those proprieters and managers and make them realise that ONE weekend out of the year (for those that only hold one tourney in a year) is not going to kill them financially, they have the rest of the year to cover their overheads with whatever social play schemes they choose.
If there is some support from the bowlers to support each tournament as best they can, then hopefully centres may come to the party to drop game prices to boost prize fund for the lower placegetters.

What would be a better incentive to those who feel they are "donaters" than to have a better than expected weekend, come 40th and still walk away with a little cash in their back pocket. So what if it hasn't covered their costs, but hey, it's something. And yes, maybe other centres CAN take a leaf out of Simon's team at Ed Fleming lanes and offer a few little extras for ALL competitors. It can be the small things that make the difference between no one wanting to come back next year to telling all their mates about the great time they had and how it was well worth the money to travel to bowl.

Last but not least schedules, and this is the killer because (shock horror) it involves communication between TBA and ALL the different state governing bodies and their respective grand prix organisers. If people talked late at the end of the year to work out who is doing what and when, then posting the FULL calender (with to be confirmed dates/venues if necessary) somewhere central may become a viable option. People can then be informed and start planning their calender accordingly. Now you may not get EVERY bowler to EVERY event, but it would be a great start....

That's it from me, sorry for the long post, but hope it got a few minds working and feel free to pull me up on any points that I am incorrect on (especially the centre proprieters...)

later guys..

 

[Pedro]

Kimbo,

FYI, 2003 Tournament Calendar for all ranked events was posted on this site and on the TBA website simultaneously on the 1st November 2003.

Local state associations will have already had their calendar's prepared prior to this date so that the list of preferred ranked events could be lodged with TBA for scrutiny.

Vic state calendar is on the VTBA website, www.tenpin.org.au/Vic and I'm sure the other states have something similar available.

Start planning for 2003.

 

[SNEEZY]

I have been reading the posts on this subject and it seems common that the reason the Sydney Cup got cancelled was because of lack of interest, costs, location, etc.

Also, in the last couple of posts it was talked about being a donator of money. Yes!! I agree that this is the wrong attitude to have and it is a shame that it is a fairly common attitude amongst bowlers today.

If we were to look at the results of all the tournaments that make up the super 6 series over the last two years then we will see that the people who make the top 10 of every tournament are bowling at least a 205+ average. For example, the SPC 2001 1st place getter after final qualifying for the males averaged 225 and in 2002 averaged 224. For the women the first place getter after the completion of qualifing in 2001 was averaging 208 and in 2002 was averaging 215. When a bowler who doesn't have a 200+ average considers bowling in the tournaments such as the super 6 and see results like the above. I can see why bowlers think that they the donators of money to those bowlers who always make the top 10 in these tournaments.
:? :? :?

I believe that AMF and the bondies that sponsor the super 6 tournaments should get together and look at ways of encouraging the bowlers that are out there that may have a 160 to 180 average to bowl in tournaments such as that of the super 6. It is too common that bowlers see the names of elite bowlers that may have entered a tournament and take the view that they don't have a chance and would rather save their money rather than give it a go. Maybe AMF should look at starting a set of tournaments like the super 6 on a scratch basis which is aimed at bowlers with averages of 140 to 190 range and use it as a transition to the more elite type tournaments such as the super 6.
:idea: :idea: :idea:

Last of all, looking at the super 6 calandar for 2001. All 6 tournaments were over and done with by the 9th September with the last tournament being the South Pacific Classic. This year AMF have spread the series out to November. I believe that people didn't attend this event because it is too close to christmas and it is too soon after the Nationals. The 2001 calandar for the super 6 seemed to be successful, maybe AMF should go back and use their old calandar and finish the series in September.
:?: :?: :?:

 

[CSP]

Thanks Graham. I know I'm right. Thai_Tiffany, Not only did I travel to the last two SPC's but have traveled to every National Event in the past 6 years and 4 events overseas. I have been there at plenty of presentations to receive top three trophies, cheques for placing in finals, or just to spectate as I bowled crap and didn't make the final.

Firstly I recall all bowlers being invitated to the SPC after party. Some had to leave and catch early flights and locals that didn't make 42 simply didn't turn-up on the final day. The events that I have missed the final, I have never ever been stopped from having food and drinks at the preso from the tournament Director.

What's your name Thai_Tiffany? and are you taking your post on rumour or were you at the actual event?

Christian.

 

[Jenn Star]

Graham,

Just for your info. My brother had put his name down to bowl and airfares and accomm has been confirmed. We have not transfered his flight, we don't have family there, he is not planning on going to the NSW Grand Prix and Amf certainly didn't re-imburse him.

Just thought i would let you know

Thanks

 

[Phil]

To Sneezy and Kimbo

Dudes,

You just gotta figure out some extra angles for the bowlers to cash.

Ideally side-tournaments where the more, how can I say it, "average" tourney bowler can cash.

Look to Vegas:

Sweepers, Brackets, Pots, Recruitment Incentives, Balls, Slot Tournaments.

Just apply a bit of lateral thinking and you'll get there.

Don't just spew up the same old shit every time..

 

[Greg Ward]

I’ve been following this topic and I’d like to offer a few ideas.

Basically I am coming from the perspective of a “new kid on the block”. This is my first year of serious bowling. I’m a 160 – 170 bowler, and I bowled in three NSW based tournaments this year. Each cost me $150 - $180 to enter. I knew that I had no hope of getting my money back, and to be honest my main aim was to not finish last. If I’m not making a donation to the centre and the ones who are good enough to cash, then can someone please provide me with a better word to use than "donation".

A few Q&A’s.
- Will I donate to the big guns next year if the run of the mill tournament format stays the same? Probably.
- Has my bowling improved as a result of the tournaments I participated in? Definitely and that is the reason why I bowl in tournaments when I know I’m not going to finish in the top half of the field let alone win.
- Was it worth $150+ for me? Definitely not.
- What tournaments would I look for next year?
a) Tournaments that are “lower ranked bowler” friendly. This could mean encouragement or advice from higher ranked bowlers, EG advice like how to read the lane conditions specific to that tournament, what shot I should be playing etc;
b) Tournaments where there is an elimination round on day one, and those that make the cut go on as per normal, but those who are eliminated can go back on day two and bowl for a “best of the losers” cup or similar (either scratch or preferably handicapped based on performance in this tournament). I don’t mind paying $150+ for two days worth of bowling, but approx $15 a game when I know I’m not going to make the cut is hard to justify.
c) There's got to be other ideas or incentives, as discussed in previous posts, to get people at my level to come back.


Gotta run,

Greg.

 

[jockey]

AMF (Industry) / ATBC / Changing Priorities / Costs

In 1989 I bowled in a VGBO (Victorian Graded Bowling Organisation) event that had 140 entries. This Tournament was a scratch event for bowlers averaging 185 and below. Around this time the sport was booming, the ATBA was attracting large numbers to Tournaments. There were waiting lists to get into some of the major leagues around Melbourne, some of them up to 4 years long.

Bowling Costs Inreases (30 cents per year for each year), Failing National Bodies, Bowling Proprietor Indifference and Changing Interests have unfortunately confined those days to Australian Bowling Folklore.

AMF must be commended on The Super Six as it was and still is a great idea, however it fails to address the fundamental problem with the sport in this country. There is no set National Tournament Structure in place that allows bowlers to develop to an Open Play Level, to be competitive on the Super 6 Circuit.

We ideally need to have in each state a structure whereby we have:

State Level Tournaments (Adult, Youth, Junior)
National Tournaments (As per National Ratings Events)

The TBA and Bowling Proprietors need to get together and try to put some sort of structured Tournament Schedule in place in each state. They could incorporate existing tournaments such as Warrnambool Cup etc, and should contribute to a State and/or new National Ratings structure.

I think the current qualification for National Ratings recognition needs to be reviewed as I beleive it is not in the best interests of the sport. Prizemoney should not be a factor as it is the bolwer we are trying to develop not a bowlers bank balance.

When the ATBC was in limbo the Development of the game suffered and now this is showing through as there are not enough bowlers who have been developed to replace those like me who unfortunately need to start listening to their ageing bodies.

Listen to what's out there that seems to be working such as the 1 in 2 payout, and try more 1 day formats which in the end encourage more participants while help eliminate or reduce associated costs.

This is the only way we may once again see the heady days of 1989 back in Australian Bowling.

Jockey

 

[Thai_Tiffany]

Christian,

I was there all weekend, I bowled (crap) and got told to p*** off when drinks were up.

I was not alone.

You should check your facts with the TD. He was very specific.

The same thing happened last year. In fact, last year, drinks were in the creche with the AMF gestapo guarding the door. I can recall a blue between the TD and Malloy over the same issue. Especially so, as Malloy enjoys a drink or two, LOL.

 

[janm]

The mathamaticians in here can look at the two tournaments listed below and come to their conclusions about entry fees prize funds etc. but to me Sydney looks pretty good when you take in all the variables,
10 years apart, games fees up of course, accomadation and air fares up, and held at opposite ends of the year, but at the same time wages up.
The ATBA tournament held in Nov 1992 had 75 entries and i believe a similar prize fund and entry structure.
I think and Iann correct me I am wrong, that 1993 ATBA saw a bit of a drop off and the talk was much the same as is happening now, top heavy prize funds, same people all the time etc.
My thoughts, just too many tournaments close together, too late in the year and just after Rachuig are more the reason for Sydney not happening.

2002 Sydney Cup Qualifying 12 Games
Top 20 M/Play No Stepladder
Prize Fund based on 90 Held in Nov
1992 Geelong Cup Qualifying 10 Games
Top 16 Matchplay Top 4 Stepladder
Prize Fund based on 90 Held in Jan Actual Entries 89 (7 interstate)
Entry:275 Sydney Entry 120 or 95 ATBA Geelong
1 4,000 1000 + Free Entry 1993
2 2500 700
3 1800 500
4 1500 400
5 1350 320
6 1100 300
7 1000 280
8 950 260
9 900 240
10 850 230
11 800 220
12 750 210
13 700 205
14 650 200
15 600 195
16 590 190
17 580 140
18 570 130
19 560 120
20 550 110
21 400 100
22 360 100
23 340 100
24 320 100
25 300 100
26 295 100
27 290 100
28 285 100
29 280 100
30 275 100

 

[Shaun24]

Acording to my calcs,

Based on 90 entries AMF was down $695 and that was without games. mayby i stuffed up the cals but i did them twice cause i was stuned.

They are paying out $25445 in prize money yet only reciving $24750 in entry fees. (based on 90 entries)

Someone please correct me if i am wrong.

Shaun

 

[Thai_Tiffany]

Don't forget the $2250.00 in GST they'd need to pay in December.

By my calculations they would need $15,000 worth of sponsorship just to break even, assuming that the 1460 games where at $5.00 per game for a linage cost of $7300.00.

Add in another $5000.00 for other overheads, such as cost of Entry Forms, tournament accreditation, airfares and accommodation for tournament team and after tournament drinks.