Stroker Vs Cranker
- Thread starter Hammer
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BigDaz
Active Member
Interesting thread. From my personal observations I believe neither is better.
A cranker who has worked hard on their style building consistency can shoot well. Same apply with strokers I feel.
I myself have transitioned from a stroker with 200 average and bad release, to a stroker with a 150 average and a good release, to an inconsistent 180 average and worse release than where I was 2 years ago.
Having never had a coach and/or well experienced bowlers at our centre there was nobody to tell me when my shot started going bad. Hence terrible release (my hand moves outside the ball on my pushout/ back swing. And I can't recover it to release the ball consistently.
Back on topic. How would one go from a stroker to a tweener or even a stroker to a cranker? From what I have figured out (again no coach or knowledgable players locally) it's all about hand position and wrist angle at the point of release and thru the release. Ive tried everything I know to get more hand on the ball but it seems to get worse the harder I try. Is there a secret ingredient? I've tried bent elbow, hand under ball, the "hand shake" follow thru, wrist angle (cupping), wrist guards and a combination of these things.
Wow long post. While I'm at it can any1 crankers here share their experience of how they started and learned to 'crank' the ball?? I see ppl who say they have bowled less than a year, and get twice as much hand as me. It makes me feel like my 10 years or bowling have been wasted
A cranker who has worked hard on their style building consistency can shoot well. Same apply with strokers I feel.
I myself have transitioned from a stroker with 200 average and bad release, to a stroker with a 150 average and a good release, to an inconsistent 180 average and worse release than where I was 2 years ago.
Having never had a coach and/or well experienced bowlers at our centre there was nobody to tell me when my shot started going bad. Hence terrible release (my hand moves outside the ball on my pushout/ back swing. And I can't recover it to release the ball consistently.
Back on topic. How would one go from a stroker to a tweener or even a stroker to a cranker? From what I have figured out (again no coach or knowledgable players locally) it's all about hand position and wrist angle at the point of release and thru the release. Ive tried everything I know to get more hand on the ball but it seems to get worse the harder I try. Is there a secret ingredient? I've tried bent elbow, hand under ball, the "hand shake" follow thru, wrist angle (cupping), wrist guards and a combination of these things.
Wow long post. While I'm at it can any1 crankers here share their experience of how they started and learned to 'crank' the ball?? I see ppl who say they have bowled less than a year, and get twice as much hand as me. It makes me feel like my 10 years or bowling have been wasted
das1604
Trippin' 4s
I strongly recommend having a look at the info on http://forum.bowlingchat.net/, and the wiki link on that page. That website has the best information on the internet, from the industries best. Mo Pinel of Morich posts there frequently.
Toon
OWN IT!
I thought I might resurrect this thread after a little encounter on the weekend.
I used to put as much revs on the ball that I could possibly do, after taking a long break I changed to a stroker and have had a much more consistent shot, better scores. I don't throw as many big games as I used to but am throwing alot more 220-230 range. As opposed to 250-280 then a 180-190.
However, despite having a better average than I did back then in a much tougher centre. Regardless of scores and injury prevention etc.
I remember being an all out cranker, not because I could carry better, not cause I threw more strikes.
I used to crank cos it was fun. It made throwing the ball exciting.
I bowled my first tournament in 3 years on the weekend and after 18 games I started to get bored of bowling down the line with a lower rev rate.
So I am just going to put the hard yards in and work on my old shot and improve my technique and accuracy.
Anyone else change their style completely and change back?
Or change their style and realise it was afar better option?
I used to put as much revs on the ball that I could possibly do, after taking a long break I changed to a stroker and have had a much more consistent shot, better scores. I don't throw as many big games as I used to but am throwing alot more 220-230 range. As opposed to 250-280 then a 180-190.
However, despite having a better average than I did back then in a much tougher centre. Regardless of scores and injury prevention etc.
I remember being an all out cranker, not because I could carry better, not cause I threw more strikes.
I used to crank cos it was fun. It made throwing the ball exciting.
I bowled my first tournament in 3 years on the weekend and after 18 games I started to get bored of bowling down the line with a lower rev rate.
So I am just going to put the hard yards in and work on my old shot and improve my technique and accuracy.
Anyone else change their style completely and change back?
Or change their style and realise it was afar better option?
That wiki page looks like hours and hours of reading! The forum also looks like it's got some great knowledge on it as well. Thanks for the link!
Cow
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
Hey Daryl,
Just saw this! Sorry! I'll give it some serious consideration and get back to you.
Here's a quick para or two as to where my thoughts are at presently...
The key IMO, with todays friction monster balls, is to make the ball go forwards with the minimum upward lift, a la Belmo. Notice that Jason can generate excellent revolutions and speed with the shortest backswing in competitive bowling in this country. There's a guy who uses the largest muscles in his body (hamstrings, glutes and quads) to great efficiency and effect.
I was in the process of getting my rev rate down a pinch personally, but that's because I want the ball to come off the spot smoother. After about a year of part time work on my downswing and release, I was surprised after shooting some video to find that the bent elbow is almost completely gone from my release, but my rev rate only dropped a hair to 486rpm after analysis of 60fps slo-mo and calculations. I am still able to make the ball rev it's head off, but can now square up a lot more, as my launch velocity is higher, owing to a big reduction of "release entropy", i.e. I maintain more of my forward vector during the release. I hit the ball outwards (reactive ball release), not upwards (urethane release.) Watch 1990 videos of Pete Weber or especially Bryan Goebel, then something since 1996 and you'll get the idea. The interesting thing is that my PAP is now in a state of flux. I can actually shift my PAP substantially (i.e. almost ¾" in the x axis and almost ½" in the y axis.) That means I can now create different rolling characteristics and different layout characteristics with the same ball. Laying out my own gear is now a moving feast. (As if it didn't take long enough before!)
So to get your rev rate up, try doing the same thing (counter-intuitive until you really think about it). Hit forward on the release, and conserve/convert your swing energy into release energy. Ask me at the next sport series or something.
It's a slow work, as Vincent van Gogh said of his garden.
Cheers,
Jason
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
You haven't been to BowlingChat.net, Cow..? Wow, this is bowling nerd nirvana...
bomber_comfort
Member
Having gone from a stroker with say 200 Revs and avg 210+ but having a really bad release to getting this ****s with that and learning a correct release(still learning) I believe the best answer is power player (someone that flicks that wrist). Learning to smack the ball with your wrist cup to uncup very fast is the best way to bowl IMO. You get all the accuracy of a stroker but the power and revs of a cranker.
Don't get me wrong though this is bloody very hard to do and to learn unless its your first way you bowl (learn young). As a 26 year old trying to unlearn everything I used to do and do things this new better way is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. To do this you also must be strong: Wrist, back, leg and core exercises done many times a day every day to strengthen everything. You need to be able to have enough strength in your wrist especially in order to cup/uncup your wrist with no effort and with your body totally relaxed and limp. Wrist must be like a limp fish (wave your wrist back and forth really fast, yep that limp), but at the same time so strong in a relaxed state that it holds your ball in the cupped position all the way till you unload past your ankle. Your wrist needs to be able to hold to ball by your side (arm and elbow straight) in the max cup position with no thumb in the ball(fingers only, if you need your thumb your wrist and fingers needs to get stronger). When you can do this, it means when you put your thumb in the ball your fingers and wrist are doing all the work meaning your thumb is limp and lifeless. Also helps if you have big hands which I do not. You also need a bloody good coach, you are no chance learning this by yourself.
Do this correct and master it and you can get high 400 revs(someone with a big hand could get 550 odd), which IMO is more than enough and makes the pins go everywhere. I nudge low 400’s at the moment and I get more than enough power and pin action. I am still learning but am improving with it greatly each and every week and game bowled. With this release one day I will be a good bowler, might even be very good however like everything that day will come when I have perfected my release and then repeated that 10000 times.
Its also my opinion that average does not mean **** as to if you are a good bowler or not. Release ect is how you can tell how good a bowler someone is. You can have the worst release in the world and still average say 215-220 on the easy oil patterns and with the monster balls out today. Most people look at that average and say oh hey he must be really good, well not exactly. It just means that his/her shot works very well on that lane condition or centre and they are very good and experienced at getting the most out of that shot on that condition they are used to. If they had PBA experience leagues over here those same bowlers would be stuffed and would average around 170-180 odd on the harder patterns. Where as someone with a great release that might also average 215-225 on the same house oil patterns but has to battle it every week but good enough to still score high. These bowlers would still average the same in the PBA experience leagues if not just a slight drop to say 210 average. The really good bowlers would even improve on the harder conditions because they have enough oil to make the ball do what they want to feel totally comfortable.
Don't get me wrong though this is bloody very hard to do and to learn unless its your first way you bowl (learn young). As a 26 year old trying to unlearn everything I used to do and do things this new better way is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. To do this you also must be strong: Wrist, back, leg and core exercises done many times a day every day to strengthen everything. You need to be able to have enough strength in your wrist especially in order to cup/uncup your wrist with no effort and with your body totally relaxed and limp. Wrist must be like a limp fish (wave your wrist back and forth really fast, yep that limp), but at the same time so strong in a relaxed state that it holds your ball in the cupped position all the way till you unload past your ankle. Your wrist needs to be able to hold to ball by your side (arm and elbow straight) in the max cup position with no thumb in the ball(fingers only, if you need your thumb your wrist and fingers needs to get stronger). When you can do this, it means when you put your thumb in the ball your fingers and wrist are doing all the work meaning your thumb is limp and lifeless. Also helps if you have big hands which I do not. You also need a bloody good coach, you are no chance learning this by yourself.
Do this correct and master it and you can get high 400 revs(someone with a big hand could get 550 odd), which IMO is more than enough and makes the pins go everywhere. I nudge low 400’s at the moment and I get more than enough power and pin action. I am still learning but am improving with it greatly each and every week and game bowled. With this release one day I will be a good bowler, might even be very good however like everything that day will come when I have perfected my release and then repeated that 10000 times.
Its also my opinion that average does not mean **** as to if you are a good bowler or not. Release ect is how you can tell how good a bowler someone is. You can have the worst release in the world and still average say 215-220 on the easy oil patterns and with the monster balls out today. Most people look at that average and say oh hey he must be really good, well not exactly. It just means that his/her shot works very well on that lane condition or centre and they are very good and experienced at getting the most out of that shot on that condition they are used to. If they had PBA experience leagues over here those same bowlers would be stuffed and would average around 170-180 odd on the harder patterns. Where as someone with a great release that might also average 215-225 on the same house oil patterns but has to battle it every week but good enough to still score high. These bowlers would still average the same in the PBA experience leagues if not just a slight drop to say 210 average. The really good bowlers would even improve on the harder conditions because they have enough oil to make the ball do what they want to feel totally comfortable.
