Should tournament directors have the ability to re average b

[Rowdy]

hey guys
hey jess... jess ryan here
i been reading this topic and well just as everyone else i have my opinion on it. If u think ne thing i say is out of line, sorry, i dont mean to be a bitch!

first of all.. i'm a little confussed at ur resoning for ur ave and what ur able to produce in tournaments.
Ur not the only one who only bowls once a week and has no coaching, as do i, although i am still able to ave 165. So i dont think that would be the reason. But, however, i also used to bowl back up, and if u were to change ur style i'm sure u would improve.
Even though i say this, i still dont think that would explain ur ave.. as, even though u dont have the coaching etc. u r still able to produce the scores in tournaments. but i can understand now that, yes, the concerntration thing can make ya bowl pretty bad.. i know that when ur having fun it doesn't really matter what u bowl.

I agree that one day u could be a scratch bowler, as could all of us if we just put our minds to it. So, dont let that get to ya.

Going on about what happened at last yrs east coast is just stupid. What's done is done, and there's no changing that. I was dropped every day in 2000 but u dont hear me goin on bout it.
I do think though, that the lowest bowler of each day should be dropped, regardless how they have performed the previous days.

I know that ur ave does not show the standard u are at, so i do think that tournament directors should be able to reaverage ppl they know are better then their ave says they are. As everyone else is referring to you, so will i. Ur average hasn't improved very much over 3 yrs.. and in tournaments u do bowl much better. Im not sayin ur a sandbagger, but u must admit, ur handicap is unfair on others. In such cases as urs, tournament directors should re-ave.

So good luck to everyone.... hope wat i said aint mean!
luv jess

 

[Jess_Marriott]

Hey, i wanna thank 'baz' and "shellby' (sorry if i got it wrong) the things i have just read, where certaintly words of encouragement! and for it to be coming from ppl who dont no me is really nice. thanx! its just a shame that my fellow victorians dont see it the same way u's do!
i no wot the topic is and i no it should stay on that track but ppl where refearing it to me! thats y i am reacting the way i am!
Shellby (not 100% sure if thats rite) i am thinking of going to stroke bowling but it wont be happening till after eccc. but thanx for the advice!!
i am hoping this can soon be resolved!!
catch ya's later
Jess.

 

[Rowdy]

just one other thing
i would like to see wat would happen if there were to be a tournie held at dandy.... this way it would shut ppl up, or prove otherwise

 

[Jess_Marriott]

Jess!! Thanx for ur in put!! its nice to no wot ppl r thinking... i have bowled torunaments at dandy and have got no where, and besides which one of u's r ganna travle that far??
jess, fair enuff on ur comment about not having coaching and stuff i no i am not the only one, but the point is that u have ppl in ur family who r great bowlers, dont get me wrong ur a talented bowler for wot u bowl, but i belive that ur families influence helps u as it would me if i did!!

 

[chopper]

hi guys
don't you think that we need to put this behind us,as the rolls off are coming soon if we all make the teams we will all bowl as a team i hope,not as a pack of bitchs
so please we need to bowl as a team not indival.
TOO BRING THE BRING ALL CUPS BACK TO VIC

 

[Pedro]

FYI, you will find the following clause on most entry forms:

"The Tournament Committee reserves the right to re-rate any bowler."

The decision is not normally at the sole discretion of the TD but rather the TC.

Give the poor TD a break, he/she normally has so much more to worry about.

All concerns should be raised with a TC member and then the committee will decide the appropriate action.

 

[Tam]

Jessica,
If you go back to the start of this post you will realise that I didnt say anything about you. So I was just defending myself. It just so happened that others decided to mention it as it seemed relavent to the topic. I dont have any anger towards you about E.C.C.C last year and as far as Im concerned it has made me a much stronger bowler and I have learnt alot from it. So can everyone please quit there bitching and save for on the lanes at the roll offs.

Thanx

Tam

 

[HBK - Y2K]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jess_Marriott:
[QB]i have bowled torunaments at dandy and have got no where, and besides which one of u's r ganna travle that far?? QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

if there was a good tourny at dandy with some value i'm pretty sure that i'd like ot bowl in it...
Jess there were 5 or 6 of us from Keon Park who tried out for Presidents Shield and one of the roll-offs was at Morwell and Dandy is quite a bit closer...

i don't really have an opinion about tourny directors having the ability to re average bowlers but a suggestion for future tournaments could be to scrap handicaps and bring in divisions where bowlers would bowl in their division based on average and then the competion would be fair (hopefully) with everyone bowling scratch in their division then the person who bowls the best in each division is going to win..
i know that this happens in the championship at the east-coast roll-offs in vic and i believe it works well.

 

[-d-_-b-]

Gday all,

i do think matty O has made an important point in that if you just muck around in league it is understandable why some people would be annoyed to say the least at Jess.

However it is natural for most bowlers to go into 5th gear when it is tournament time. I personally am one of those bowlers who finds just that little extra during tournaments not because i stuff around during league, and not because i dont take my league seriously, rather its just the adrenalin and atmosphere of a tournament that just lifts you.

With Jess a lift of 50 pins or so is quite incredible and congratulations are in order, everyone has a few great tourneys where they bowl light years ahead of their normal game. Also difficult lanes would greatly affect the averages of entering bowlers, my bowling partner at southgate is one such person, over 4 years he has brought his ave up at southgate from 130 odd to just under 170. Put him in a tourney and i would be suprised if he didn't average about 180 minimum. This is due to his difficulty experienced when bowling at shouthgate, however he now bowls in high rollers and has told me he was averaging low to medium 180's over about 30 games or so. Simmilarly take him to Enfield and he will average close to 200 most times. Is he a sandbagger??? most definitely not

The question this does raise however is the role of our leagues as opposed to the role of TD's in trying to prevent sandbagging. auSSie13 who posted previous messages on this topic actually runs my league on saturdays and he raised a very valid point.

Liquidity

Every week no more than a few days after bowling league i can go to a website and see my scores for the week, the change in my average etc. Not only for me but for every person who bowled in our league that week. How does this help, well it helps for several reasons

1/. it prevents the missinformation and misunderstanding which have obviously occured here
2/. more relevant to this topic it makes my true ability far more obvious to the tournament directors if the need to re-average did occur.

Significantly though i wouldn't be able to sandbag in my league even if i wanted to. Afterall whats the bowlers motivation for sandbagging???? Its to win, people dont play bad just for kicks. In the shuttles league however the scores are so readily available to everyone that it is rather apparent when a person is just having a bad day as opposed to "bagging". Also having a league like the shuttles means that you do have to be almost right on your game every week in order to win, bagging would infact be counterproductive as by losing a few games you would be too far behind to catch up.

Granted this is an extremely difficult topic, not to mention a sensitive one. However getting stuck into people who happen to bowl well for 2 days out of a year is not a way to solve the problem. We need to look at the cause rather than trying to patch over the symptoms.

Thats my two bob

Kozzi

 

[milkman]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, ">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matty_O:

The reason tournies ask for your highest league ave, is to handicap you on your FULL POTENTIAL that you have displayed in league. This will make the handicaping system fair for everyone!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Matty: I have an issue with this statement. I bowl at two centres, Sunshine and Mooroolbark. One is a wooden surface with very broken down conditions, and another is a synthetic, with a kegel machine.

At Sunshine, I average 190 on the dot. Its hard to score, and if you average 200, you are doing mighty fine. At Mooroolbark, I average 220, easy to find a line, very forgiving if you miss your target.

On Wed this week, sunshine held a marathon doubles tournament. They asked me if I wanted to bowl, and I seriously thought about it, just for the fun. However, they wanted to use my HIGHEST league average. The highest league average at Sunshine is 202 or something, so how can you justify using a 220 average for this tournament? It wasnt a handicapped tournament, but an average cutoff of 370, which meant I had to find a 150 average bowler to bowl, which I didnt want to do.

I cant offer a solution as to how to get around this. For a house tournament, I would of assumed they would use your highest league average at that centre, however, this still leaves room for your "sandbaggers" to clean up all the house tournaments.

For an overall summary, and relating back to the topic as a whole, should tournament directors have the ability to re-average bowlers? I say yes. Just remember, its not just leauge averages, there is also a yearbook average, that combines bowlers tournament results as well (i think)

 

[Matty_O]

Jess,
If you are not trying in league, which is what not concentrating is, then you should understand why bowlers feel the way they do. Almost every single bowler I bowl with gives 100% every game, every week. If they did not, I wouldnt want them on my team.

The reason tournies ask for your highest league ave, is to handicap you on your FULL POTENTIAL that you have displayed in league. This will make the handicaping system fair for everyone!

Maybe you should start to take league more seriously, you may be surprised at how much your game will improve and how little everyone else will complain.

 

[Lawrey]

look people,
GET OVER IT if ya can't handle the handicap don't bowl h'cap tournies! which is wat i got told by my sis who had da same trouble!
bowling is a game ok? some people wanna have fun like jess. she shouldn't have 2 please any of u!
and if u all can't handle it and the bitching goes on ur gonna lose bowlers. so just quit da bitching its obvious pplz use this site 2 bitch n complain bout pplz coz dey dun have da guts 2 say it themselves!

jess lawrence!

 

[ecca55]

no matter what league u bowl in you should take it seriously, especially when u go into tournaments, i have been bowlin for 10 yrs and have neva had any coaching either jess! and i manage to hold a higher av. and u r not back up u r a straight bowler, i am what u call backup. i suggest u take league more seriously, try a diff centre and maybe get some coachin!!!

 

[HBK - Y2K]

some people who bowl handicap tournaments are up to the standard to bowl scratch. It would be a waist of time to even enter a scratch tournie....
they would want their competition to be fair, and if u have way to much handicap then u should, it isn't fair for those who actually have an average that reflects their ability.

 

[Rowdy]

sorry that last post was supposed to be in my account

 

[Jess_Marriott]

Matto,
just a reply to wot u said about how if i took leauge more seriously how much my game would improve and how lil ppl would complain. Due to all these statements on here, i have been taking my leauge a lil more seriously and sure i seen an improvement in my bowling.. but i even if i did keep improving the fact remains that unless i hold a 160-170 ave, ppl r still ganna be complaining. because it seems i am not good enough! i am not always out there to be the best ave bowler, i am out there to do my very best and at the same time have a lil fun!! and if averaging 130 is the best i can be then thats wot i am ganna do!! i may as well just live with the complaining going on Because its neva ganna stop!!
Thanx Jess!

 

[Lawrey]

are u saying that h'cap are crap
eg: look at carly allen and tracey madden they were all once h'cap bowlers 2!

 

[patrick]

ok i have sat back long enough... time for my 2 bobs worth

i think that this seems to be a personal attack on a bowler so far... and i thought that kind of thing was banned? graham? milkman?

i dont know most of you from a bar of soap so this is purely my opinion!

i think that under certain circumstances YES people need to be re-averaged before the tournament (by their own association commitees). i have seen people bowling in the restricted masters at nationals that would have had a chance against some/most open bowlers a few years back!!

BUT: the question was should it be allowed DURING a tournament right?? that is dead wrong! you cant just screw someone that is bowling good during a tournament!! thats like taking someone out the back and knee-capping them!

but like milkman said, they have yearbooks that can give someone a more accurate average by not just using 1 league average.

i myself think that using a league average for a tournament is wrong... look at nationals, it is taken on the 31st of DECEMBER! when is nationals? JULY!
in 2000, i went from a low 180 entering average to a 205 average at the time of the nationals! that is a huge difference!!

maybe whoever is complaining about these sandbaggers needs to STOP COMPLAINING! and start thinking up ideas about how to prevent it?!
thats about the only way i think it will go away!


oh and jess is it? do u ever consider using your (past) tournament averages?! if you bowl 18 games in a TOURNAMENT it is considered a legal average....

just my opinion.
bye

 

[Matty_O]

Hey Cam,

People know when they bowl at mooroolbark that they are gona score high, week in, week out.
It probably does inflate the average a little but thats the price people pay for wanting to bowl on the biggest ditch in Melbourne.

P.S. STATE CHAMPS HERE WE COME BABY!! I want the gold dude!!

 

[Jess_Marriott]

hercules,
Yea its Jess. As a responce to ur comment about using my past tournament averages. i had no idea that u could do that. who would verify it? and then y does it say on form ur HIGHEST (or wot eva) LEAUGE AVERAGE??


As a lil addition to wot Lawrey said, handicap bowlers r just as important as those who r scratch bowlers. We all have to start somewhere and congrats to u if u start high enough to b a scratch bowler! But those of u who r handicap bowlers just hang in there, we will all get there one day if we put our mind to it!!

Thanx Jess!