Save Bowling from Easy Lane Conditions
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Casual Observer
Member
Acceleration is measured in a direction, in this case, towards the pin.
Momentum is the ability of an object to resist acceleration, in this case to stop or deflect.
What the modern balls do is increase the momentum of the ball at the point of impact by having a weight block and a surface that resists the negative acceleration.
Basic physics.
In a collision, if you take out all noise, heat, denting of the pins, friction etc (an inelastic collision, or COR =1) the pins exert the same force on the ball as the ball does on them. Due to the relative weights of the 2 the pins deflect more and bounce around. The ball also does the same (bounces around more) due to the increased forces on it but the weight block assists it to keep the same line through the pins so it appears not to.
Much higher forces at play and higher deflection but you simply dont see it
Momentum is the ability of an object to resist acceleration, in this case to stop or deflect.
What the modern balls do is increase the momentum of the ball at the point of impact by having a weight block and a surface that resists the negative acceleration.
Basic physics.
In a collision, if you take out all noise, heat, denting of the pins, friction etc (an inelastic collision, or COR =1) the pins exert the same force on the ball as the ball does on them. Due to the relative weights of the 2 the pins deflect more and bounce around. The ball also does the same (bounces around more) due to the increased forces on it but the weight block assists it to keep the same line through the pins so it appears not to.
Much higher forces at play and higher deflection but you simply dont see it
RobbieB
Rodentus scientificus
Acceleration has nothing to do with it.
No, it is not. That would be inertia. Momentum is the product of the mass of an object and its velocity, is a vector, and is conserved in collisions.
What? This is gibberish.
The weight block has nothing to do with deflection as such, what the weight blocks and modern covers do is allow the bowler to cover more boards and creat a greater entry angle. A ball with an entry angle of 9 degrees that deflects 6 degrees will carry better than one that deflects 4 degrees but only generates a 5 degree entry angle (random numbers for example only).
Much higher forces at play and higher deflection but you simply dont see it
Put simply, any momentum imparted to the pins comes from the ball. If ball A makes the pins fly faster than ball B, it's because ball A transfers more momentum - and thus deflects more than ball B. Low trackers also tend to deflect more through gyroscopic deflection due to the high axis tilt - the payoff is the loss of angular momentum is transferred to the pin as rotation. TANSTAAFL.
One of these days I should work up some diagrams and write this up as a article.
Today is one of these days....
steve jones
Active Member
Rob - I always knew you were extremely clever - I just didn't appreciate until now how clever you actually are - but please answer me this, just to slightly alter the direction of this thread - how is it that guys on the left get so much of an advantage [with the possible exception of one J Belmonte who could probably average 230 in your car park in Townsville].
To you and and your family Rob allow me to extend all the Compliments of the Season and a healthy and rewarding 2012 [it'll be a tough one though].
To you and and your family Rob allow me to extend all the Compliments of the Season and a healthy and rewarding 2012 [it'll be a tough one though].
Steve... I will try to answer this one.
It is all about friction. The newer balls on the market rip the crap out of the surface, creating a well defined track area, even in the toughest synthetic panels.
There are a lot more right handers in the world, so it only makes sense that the right hand side will wear a lot quicker than the left. Couple that with the "super bungee" balls of today that rip oil off at a remarkable rate, it doesn't take long before the righties have to migrate inside deeper, to find more lubrication for the balls, and requiring balls that will skid further, hook sharper and later, to be effective.
On the left hand side, the lefties can stay in the same area longer, because basically, there is usually only 1-2 per squad. because the friction isn't as high on the left hand side, they can usually use balls that are smoother rolling, due to them being able to generate the angle required to strike effectively being playing the outside part of the lane. Smoother rolling balls, generally, are easier to control, without as many surprises.
It can work as a double edged sword. If the righties work together, they can break down the lane after a few games to create higher scoring conditions. If the righties get so deep on the lane, they can remove some of the oil the lefties need to get the ball to push down the lane.
There are many, many variables.
I'm sure the others will add to this... too busy to go into full details. Xmas in the retail industry sucks
It is all about friction. The newer balls on the market rip the crap out of the surface, creating a well defined track area, even in the toughest synthetic panels.
There are a lot more right handers in the world, so it only makes sense that the right hand side will wear a lot quicker than the left. Couple that with the "super bungee" balls of today that rip oil off at a remarkable rate, it doesn't take long before the righties have to migrate inside deeper, to find more lubrication for the balls, and requiring balls that will skid further, hook sharper and later, to be effective.
On the left hand side, the lefties can stay in the same area longer, because basically, there is usually only 1-2 per squad. because the friction isn't as high on the left hand side, they can usually use balls that are smoother rolling, due to them being able to generate the angle required to strike effectively being playing the outside part of the lane. Smoother rolling balls, generally, are easier to control, without as many surprises.
It can work as a double edged sword. If the righties work together, they can break down the lane after a few games to create higher scoring conditions. If the righties get so deep on the lane, they can remove some of the oil the lefties need to get the ball to push down the lane.
There are many, many variables.
I'm sure the others will add to this... too busy to go into full details. Xmas in the retail industry sucks
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
Synthetic panels have a texture coat on top of the laminate to hold oil in place. (Think little dimples and you get the idea.)
On the RHS (because it ages in dog years), this coating is worn off where the lanes see a lot of traffic and especially where insufficient oil has been applied to protect the coating. The texture gets glazed smooth by white hot reactive resin and then there's erratic or no surface to hold the oil in place, so this part of the lane plays like ice in about 10 frames. Put a long pattern down on this and it's just bloody hard work. MTC at Narre Warren or the Australia Cup just played at Tuggeranong were good examples of this phenomenon. Narre Warren was revolting on both sides, Tuggeranong was ordinary on the left, making it much better than the right, which was abysmal. This is typical of houses that have been walled up from 10-10 for decades and is one of the big reasons I am so critical of lane blocking.
Blocked lanes wear out faster. Attention proprietors and managers. Blocked lanes wear out faster. This means increased costs to you to buy new panels, pay for labour to replace them and the downtime of the replacement period. Blocked lanes cost you money. And this money has to be recouped. So attention bowlers. Blocked lanes cost you money in the long run. They are a fool's paradise.
Merry Christmas Mate (and to all our "special" left-handed friends.)
On the RHS (because it ages in dog years), this coating is worn off where the lanes see a lot of traffic and especially where insufficient oil has been applied to protect the coating. The texture gets glazed smooth by white hot reactive resin and then there's erratic or no surface to hold the oil in place, so this part of the lane plays like ice in about 10 frames. Put a long pattern down on this and it's just bloody hard work. MTC at Narre Warren or the Australia Cup just played at Tuggeranong were good examples of this phenomenon. Narre Warren was revolting on both sides, Tuggeranong was ordinary on the left, making it much better than the right, which was abysmal. This is typical of houses that have been walled up from 10-10 for decades and is one of the big reasons I am so critical of lane blocking.
Blocked lanes wear out faster. Attention proprietors and managers. Blocked lanes wear out faster. This means increased costs to you to buy new panels, pay for labour to replace them and the downtime of the replacement period. Blocked lanes cost you money. And this money has to be recouped. So attention bowlers. Blocked lanes cost you money in the long run. They are a fool's paradise.
See how much more you need to know on the right hand side, Lovey?
Merry Christmas Mate (and to all our "special" left-handed friends.)
degdos
Member
In regards to plays like ice by jason
Im fairly new to the sport and id like to ask a question on bowling on ice conditions , as the centre i bowl at is fairly new, and i really have a problem on bowling there at times and recently found out that im not the only one.I have no problem on hooking the ball and am interested to know what kind of variables other than the obvious (OIL ) can change the back end of a lane that there is no reaction at all .I have spoken to the centre and no changes to the oil pattern have been made and im now considering changing venues as there is another centre further to drive but much more enjoyable to bowl. I know both centres have different layouts and my home centre is probably the easier layout or so i thought , or am i getting it all wrong as can a plastic ball have that much affect on lane conditons dragging oil down or can maintenance come into affect on lane conditions at the backend where i thought was supposed to be dry.At times and recently the backend of the lanes are like ice and there is very little reaction if any at all.
Still a bad day at bowling is better than a great day at work
Im fairly new to the sport and id like to ask a question on bowling on ice conditions , as the centre i bowl at is fairly new, and i really have a problem on bowling there at times and recently found out that im not the only one.I have no problem on hooking the ball and am interested to know what kind of variables other than the obvious (OIL ) can change the back end of a lane that there is no reaction at all .I have spoken to the centre and no changes to the oil pattern have been made and im now considering changing venues as there is another centre further to drive but much more enjoyable to bowl. I know both centres have different layouts and my home centre is probably the easier layout or so i thought , or am i getting it all wrong as can a plastic ball have that much affect on lane conditons dragging oil down or can maintenance come into affect on lane conditions at the backend where i thought was supposed to be dry.At times and recently the backend of the lanes are like ice and there is very little reaction if any at all.
Still a bad day at bowling is better than a great day at work
Without meaning to sound rude or confrontational, I think you just demonstrated a point that the old hands (I was going to say "we" but my 13 years in the sport is a mere fraction of some of the old hands here) have been trying to fight, and sadly a point the proprietors in general are scared of.
The only bowlers that seem to want it to be harder are those of us that can (or want to try to) handle it, bored with just closing your eyes and carrying everything. It would seem the bowling youth of today would actually simply prefer to score...
Lastly, because I hate people who post useless rants without addressing the question at all and don't like being a hypocrite;
There is a lot that can/will affect your lanes and backend, beginning with temperature and humidity, going through what you are doing personally, to the obvious conditioning pattern or even type of conditioner and WHEN it was applied to the surface. Most new bowlers I see around try and generate all of that hook you're after with sideroll on aggressive equipment rather than clean rotations on the right equipment, you could be experiencing something as simple as your ball burning off all of its energy in the lane or hitting at an angle generated by sideroll friction rather than weightblock momentum (and therefore the energy in the ball is potentially not aligned at impact - I have no idea how to explain that without a diagram). In short there's many factors to consider, and telling you which ones are relevant could only be done with more information or by someone who can see the problem.
In newcastle we had our so called 'prestige' league try and introduce PBA patterns, from the initial responses from fellow bowlers i found they thought the ordinary pattern was crap or too burnt out so they thought it would be 'better' and/or easier with these PBA patterns, sure the machine possibly is a bit behind the times and cant lay the sufficient volume, possibly is not as accurate as the newer machines. However the bowlers still complained about the patterns not being layed right. Only now does the league seem happy with a fresh oiling before their 4game league each night of the ordinary house shot.
From what ive seen they are soo obsessed with their scoring and convinced that they should average 200+ that they think if they dont average as such, its the lanes. They dont seem to take into account that the person beside them are struggling much the same.
Simply observations.
degdos
Member
neither am i young and just want to carry everything , i enjoy the sport and realise that bowling is just more than throwing a ball at ten pins 60 feet away.i posted the question as i was curious about other variables i have not come across as all the old hand bowlers seem to keep to themselves where i bowl.i accept your criticism as it seems my questions have been answered about temperature/humidity and entry of angle , although im aware of the later.as for useless rants and being hypocrytical i will leave that up to your discretion and the other old hand bowlers who have problems with newcomers asking questions or maybe in 13 years i myself will shake my head at the way newcomers enter the sport. TAFL
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
Hi Greg, (I checked your profile.)
There are SO many variables in play to answer your question. I suggest that your first move is to seek out a coach just to be sure that your lack of reaction on the lane isn't happening as a result of what's happening on your side of the foul line. I have seen houses dried out and their timber lanes (and now synthetic panels!) destroyed because players complained that they couldn't hook the ball. In almost all cases, the problem is that the players are right. Despite quantum leaps in bowling ball technology, they can't hook the ball. But not because of the lane condition. They just haven't learned the requisite skills to hook a bowling ball and for some reason won't seek out a good coach to help them. There are some good videos on YouTube. I got some good results with "how to hook a bowling ball" in Google. Video is very useful for this.
As for a Coach, Eric Jang coaches in Campbelltown City Bowl, not too far from Bowral in the scheme of things. He's my coach, so there's a recommendation. He charges for his services, which is fair enough, as he is very knowledgeable and able to work with players from beginners to international champions. I'm sure if you call the bowl on a Tuesday or Thursday evening around 6:00, you'll be able to get him although he may be having a break right now, being the silly season.
I'm not having a go at you with this comment. Merely making sure that we get the fundamentals in place. With today's super balls, you don't need to throw it like John Gant to get a good hook. (Check that link out, just for the fun of it!)
To be of more help immediately, make sure that your ball is truly rolling (not still sliding) when it hits the pins but the trick is that must not be decelerating with regard to it's rev rate. And yes, this is a delicate balancing trick requiring keen observation and adjustment to your bowling ball's motion. Move about on different parts of the lane to see what reaction you get. In school holidays though, a lot of polyester and urethane house balls will drag a lot of oil around all over the place, so in all fairness, right now, you could be seeing some pretty sloppy stuff which is nobody's fault. It's just that time of year. (Hence I'm getting some cycling done right now!)
Cheers,
Jason
There are SO many variables in play to answer your question. I suggest that your first move is to seek out a coach just to be sure that your lack of reaction on the lane isn't happening as a result of what's happening on your side of the foul line. I have seen houses dried out and their timber lanes (and now synthetic panels!) destroyed because players complained that they couldn't hook the ball. In almost all cases, the problem is that the players are right. Despite quantum leaps in bowling ball technology, they can't hook the ball. But not because of the lane condition. They just haven't learned the requisite skills to hook a bowling ball and for some reason won't seek out a good coach to help them. There are some good videos on YouTube. I got some good results with "how to hook a bowling ball" in Google. Video is very useful for this.
As for a Coach, Eric Jang coaches in Campbelltown City Bowl, not too far from Bowral in the scheme of things. He's my coach, so there's a recommendation.
He charges for his services, which is fair enough, as he is very knowledgeable and able to work with players from beginners to international champions. I'm sure if you call the bowl on a Tuesday or Thursday evening around 6:00, you'll be able to get him although he may be having a break right now, being the silly season.I'm not having a go at you with this comment. Merely making sure that we get the fundamentals in place. With today's super balls, you don't need to throw it like John Gant to get a good hook. (Check that link out, just for the fun of it!)
To be of more help immediately, make sure that your ball is truly rolling (not still sliding) when it hits the pins but the trick is that must not be decelerating with regard to it's rev rate. And yes, this is a delicate balancing trick requiring keen observation and adjustment to your bowling ball's motion. Move about on different parts of the lane to see what reaction you get. In school holidays though, a lot of polyester and urethane house balls will drag a lot of oil around all over the place, so in all fairness, right now, you could be seeing some pretty sloppy stuff which is nobody's fault. It's just that time of year. (Hence I'm getting some cycling done right now!)
Cheers,
Jason
That wasn't directed at you at all mate, if you look back down this main forum you'll find a number of conversations where people are happy to dive in and rant or criticise without contributing, makes me want to tear my hair out (fortunately nature is saving me that trouble). I was meaning that I wasn't going to be a hypocrite and do the same so I provided some thoughts in addition to pointing out that you were proving a trend.
