SA CUP format!

[BELMO]

For those who have downloaded the formatt and understand it.

I would be interested in hearing the veiws of the forum.

i think its a great formatt and will improve our MATCHPLAY bowling 10 fold. Hopefully the atmosphere will become as exciting as it is all over the world.
I mean lets be honest, aussie bowling hasnt been the "most exciting" thing to watch but now a strike in the 10th for 150 can be interesting depending on the match! Not to mention a bit more vocal "pump up's" from the bowler themselves.

My only downfall (from what i can think of now) is the payout. For me it seems quite low in all areas. much lower than i thought it could of been. But i guess untill 1st place is worth 6 figures you will always get a complaint from someone.

Congrats AMF for sacking up and having ago at something different. You will get my entry!

Jason Belmonte

 

[Dion A]

I agree Belmo looks like a great format, should be great for those of us watching this year!!! If only they had a junior tourny like it!!

Dion

 

[BELMO]

For the JNRS who read this thread too.

This is the perfect formatt for everyone. Its not bais to the older or younger generations. Its not bias to a lefty or a righty, its ot bias to anyone. It favours the person who throws the strike when needed.

With a cut as big as 32, many more people will make a cut, many new faces and anyone can win the event.
I say anyone can win because i know i can beat anyone in 5 games (head to head) but over 30 games carry over pinfall, Walter Ray has my number

I think this is the perfect formatt for JNRS who are striving to improve. What better training than going head to head with AUSSIES best????

It will make for any interesting event, i just hope it egts the support it deserves.

 

[Power Penguin]

I agree with Belmo and Dion its fair for everyone regaurdless of how you bowl and how old you are also.

 

[bowlrig]

An interesting concept that i think will be very popular.

A chance for some one to have an average day at the office on Saturday with a low cut, go away and think about it then come back and blitz on the Sunday.


Rob

 

[Beanie]

All I can say is WOW, what a format.

The knockout matchplay format gives everyone a chance, but you can afford to lose 2 games each round and still progress, thereby taking the odd lucky shot that otherwise might make a difference out of the equation. In other words, if you lose 3 games to the same bowler, you frankly deserve to be knocked out.

It's also good to see that some notice has been taken of past discussions on tournament formats that have taken place on this forum. Good on ya TBA for listening to the people.

However, I see the following issues:

1) The matchplay qualifying is restricted by the lane draw to the top 24, not the top 32 as mentioned elsewhere in the entry form. These 8 places have been taken by the byes that the top 8 qualifiers get in the first round.

The $75 1st round losers bonuses that the byes are currently getting should be added to the semifinalist losers bonus ($100 each), and the top 20 placings ($150 for 2nd and $250 for first), this would bump the semi-finalist's prize to $350, 2nd place to $850 and 1st place to $1250.

2) If someone qualifying below 8th wants to win, he/she faces playing at least 15, possibly up to 25 games in the masters. And I reckon there is no way that the masters will be done in 4 1/4 hours, it will be more like 6 hours at least. Bowlers should be aware of this when making travel arrangements.

To those bowlers that might complain about the prize money, if you top qualifying you win $1500, if you then go on to win the matchplay you win a further $1000. $2500 so far. Throw in a couple of 300 games and you have yourself $3100 bucks, just as much as many other tournaments in the Super 6 series.

If I could possibly get over for this tournament, I would. It is a fantastic format, so good I might suggest something along these lines for our tournaments here in NZ. But it's too soon in the year for me. Hopefully something like this will happen for the later tournaments (NSW, SPC).

David.

 

[KANAFA!]

i think this is a very good formatt, for everyone bowling. naturally when someone sees that it is a top 32 cut, more bowlers will enter as they think they have a better chance at some $$.( as you will at least get your money back)

i also think, like BELMO said, more juniors should be interested in a comp such as this with the formatt that is in place. i bowled in it last year and you cant buy the experience.

look forward to getting out there, should be a really good weekend.

matty k

 

[jockey]

David raises a good point.

Is the cut really the top 24 bowlers as outlined in the draw rather than the Top 32 as stated in the tournament format rules.

If so is the rolloff for a tie for 32nd really meant to be for a tie for 24th.

The actual event format is unclear. In one place it states top 32 however in the draw outlined it is clear it is only Top 24.

Can Tony or someone from the centre clarify this for all bowlers.

Apart from those questions raised it is a refreshing format that when sorted out should make for an interesting event.

 

[KANAFA!]

i think this is a very good formatt, for everyone bowling. naturally when someone sees that it is a top 32 cut, more bowlers will enter as they think they have a better chance at some $$.( as you will at least get your money back)

i also think, like BELMO said, more juniors should be interested in a comp such as this with the formatt that is in place. i bowled in it last year and you cant buy the experience.

look forward to getting out there, should be a really good weekend.

matty k

 

[Mankind_280]

It does make an interesting point... can someone clear up the entry form misprint....

is it top 24 or top 32???


I love the idea... I'll be there... its just a matter of which squad

 

[Power Penguin]

Mankind_280, the entry form says it is top 32 :roll: :?

 

[Mankind_280]

then how are u going to organise the format

32 finalists

top 8 get a bye

1st Round 24 people = 12 winners
2nd Round top 8 plus 12 winners=20 =10 winners
3rd Round 10 winners= 5 winners


you cant have an odd number of people unless its only the champion.


So how is the great matchplay format (which I support!!) work out??

 

[jl]

think about it... if the top 8 get a bye to start, doesn't that make it a total of 40 qualifiers, of which 32 are real people??

also springs to my attention that there is a possibility that the 2005 SA Cup champion could earn less for winning the event than other qualifiers.

* SA cup winner could have finished 32nd after qualifying = $200, plus $1000 bonus for winning the event. = total prizemoney of $1200

* 1st place qualifier could get knocked out at minimum in the 2nd round (because of the bye) = $1500 for first qual. + $125 bonus for 2nd round = $1625 prizemoney

while i agree this is a great format, doesnt this seem quite strange that the winner of the event could win less prizemoney than someone else? i suppose you could say this is a type of skins event. odds are this probably won't happen anyway

 

[Mankind_280]

One way to fix it would be

top 48

top 16 get a bye

17-48 (32 spots) play- 16 get knocked out
32 play=16 are knocked out
16 play= 8 knocked out
8 play= 4 knocked out
4 play = 2 knocked out
2 play = 1 champion!!

OR

40 Start- 8 Byes
32 Play- 16 win
16 plus 8 bye= 24 players= 12 winners
12 play = 6 winners
6 play = 3 winners
3 winner final first to 4 games


I have tried several ways to do a top 32 with a bye and it cant be done. you need 16 people in the 2nd round for the final to be 2 people



Just my 2 cents


Any more ideas??

PS: I believe it will be top 24 and the 32 was a typo... but we'll see

 

[da_cowman]

Valid point Mankind. I can't seem to figure out how they are going to achieve it, fairly, with 32 qualifiers and 8 first round byes. Junior Nationals was conducted with the same format earlier this year and that was top 28 cut with top 4 first round byes. You have to reach the magical 16 or 32 bowlers left in the 2nd round in order for this to work. So unless it's changed to no first round byes, or the amount of people cutting is dropped or raised.

Will be interesting to see how it is finally done.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[da_cowman]

think about it... if the top 8 get a bye to start, doesn't that make it a total of 40 qualifiers, of which 32 are real people??

also springs to my attention that there is a possibility that the 2005 SA Cup champion could earn less for winning the event than other qualifiers.

* SA cup winner could have finished 32nd after qualifying = $200, plus $1000 bonus for winning the event. = total prizemoney of $1200

* 1st place qualifier could get knocked out at minimum in the 2nd round (because of the bye) = $1500 for first qual. + $125 bonus for 2nd round = $1625 prizemoney

Even if top 8 aren't included in first round it still doesnt work.
32-16+8
24-12
12-6
6-3

The Prizefund pays out better to the people who bowl well on both days. Much fairer if you ask me. Also, there is more luck involved in winning matchplay rather then qualifying first. Take Junior Nationals this year. Steve Reynolds chucks 980 for 4 to lose to Adam/Joel (sorry cant remember which one!) Reeve who chucked 999(I THINK!) but Steve probably wouldve beaten anyone else out there. Also, this format means you can bowl a higher pinfall and still lose. Paying out higher to the guy/girl that bowls better then anyone over 12 games is understandable, even if it does result in the winner getting less.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Graham]

I *think* that the back page is correct .. and the inside page isn;t worded quite correctly.

Im pretty sure it's32 spots in the Final - 8 of which are Byes. So in reality the Top 24 make the final.

I will double check on that though.

 

[Mankind_280]

how many entries is the prize fund based on... it doesnt say in the entry form.

 

[DaveK]

I already have my entry in - this format looks great. I look forward to seeing all bowlers that can get to this tourny have a go.

Dave Kuhn. SA

 

[BELMO]

also springs to my attention that there is a possibility that the 2005 SA Cup champion could earn less for winning the event than other qualifiers.

* SA cup winner could have finished 32nd after qualifying = $200, plus $1000 bonus for winning the event. = total prizemoney of $1200

* 1st place qualifier could get knocked out at minimum in the 2nd round (because of the bye) = $1500 for first qual. + $125 bonus for 2nd round = $1625 prizemoney

JL does have a point.
How does the winner of SA cup make less money than top qualifier.

From my experiances i think its a great idea to pay the qualifers a "positional" ammount of money. But to have it higher than the "winner" of the event seems a little rocky.

If it were me i would have a lower qualifier prize fund and hit the knockout part hard.
I mean we want all players to feel they can make money as well as win an event.
Having the prizefund heavy for the qualifiers will mean the majoirty of the money will be earned by the usual guys who were making money at the old super 6's. (and you must admit, the top 16 could almost be picked each event)
Change it so its heavier in the knockout.... That way, the real bowling is in the head to head. Noone really wants to bowl for $50 but for $500 a round, now there is something worth fighting for.
I mean if you get knocked out in the 1st round you only lose $150, than those getting knocked out in the 3rd round.
i mean COME ON...... lets make it so when someone hits that double in the 10th to win the first round it earnt him free accomadation for the weekend and not a round of drinks at the bar.
Plus after he hits that double i bet he lets the bowling centre knows he just did it, when its for $500, I know i let out a Huge "WHOSE NEXT" or a Hewitt "COME ON". Puts a little fear into those watching and espically to the guy who is up next to play you
But for $50, excitment wont occur till the semi's. Thats my tip.

This formatt is great for aussie bowling.
Great to watch, fun and exciting to bowl in, and there is no chance of a player who is 1000 pins ahead making the tournament rather boring and anit climattic.

Now with a few minor touches this formatt can be PERFECT!

cheers

Jason Belmonte