Results Richlands 1/2 A Grand Tornament

[ab]

Results After 12 Games

1. Carl Bottomley 2711
2. Tony Hamilton 2614
3. Steve Hampson 2546
4. George Frilingos 2537
5. Michael Vandongen 2360
6. David Brown 2245
7.Josh Thompson 2119
8.Ricky Carlos 1992
9. Martin Manning 1862
10. Kim Munson 1806

Well done Carl

 

[bfcc]

from what i have been told there were 2 bowlers made money on the night not 1 !! if this is correct the two bowlers need to have a good look at what they did and start thinking that crap like this could be the reason numbers are down :evil: :evil: :evil: and yes i did here it from one of the 2 bowlers.maybe they would like to tell us all how this was sporting and fair when it was a winner take all challenge. i feel for other other 8 bowlers that showed up and bowled in the spirit of the tournament.

 

[Sean M]

Payout......10:1
Hmmmm sounded to good to be true....NOT!!!!
That's my reason for a no show anyway.

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

High Horse

BFCC,

Yes what you were told about this prize split was correct. George approached me to see if I was prepared to deal if one of us one. I wasn't to keen but in the end agreed.

As for being unfair, none of Georges scores were added to mine or vice versa and as we bowl on different sides of the lanes it was kind of difficult to share information about conditions etc. So unfair, I dont think so. Not more than 2 words were said while we were bowling anyway.

This is not the first nor the last time these sorts of things will be done. George also approached me at Capalaba last year and again I agreed. After the event I thought better of it given we had both recevied money anyway and gave George his extra winnings back.

I believe what I do with my winnings is my business and nobody elses. I threw the ball! I won! My Money! Do I tell you how to spend what you receive and more importantly should I! NO!

Before you get to high and mighty maybe you should have a talk with Kelly about the way the Storm Skins are split in the States or Tim Mack on deals done in England when winner take all formats are used.

As I said I'm not a big fan of this but it happened. If anyone is upset by this I appologise but the fact remains it happens all over the world and will always continue in winner take all events.

Out of curiosity can you explain the difference between what was done and Dave backing me in the sweeps at Caboolture. I put money on George and he put money on me. Dave put money on me. No difference that I can see but I'm sure you'll search till you find one.

 

[bfcc]

carl my problem with this is you and george both had 2 chances to win money in what was a winner take all event . you have said it happens all over the world and that may be so but it doesn't make it right . you and george are 2 of the best bowlers in qld if not australia yet you don't have the balls to show up and compete against each other. you had a unfair advantage over the other bowlers that showed up and bowled in the true spirit of competition.

now you may not have a problem with what you have done but when tournaments are struggling to get numbers everyone has to do the right thing to help tournaments stay alive and encourage more people to bowl in them. do you think what you and george did will help get any of the locals that bowled in that event to bowl in more tournaments??

as for dave backing you in the brackets he wasn't bowling in the brackets when he backed you so he had 1 chance to win not 2 .it all comes down to fair play 1 entry fee 1 chance to win not 2!!

carl you and george as sponsored bowlers and respected bowlers have to set the standard for others to follow, there are alot of people juniors, youths and adults that look up to both you and george because you have earned there respect over a number of years by doing the right thing, in my mind you have both lost that respect.

now i am not trying to tell you or george what to do with the money you win that is totally up to you , what you need to think about is tournament bowling is dying and what you did will not help.

 

[GeorgeF]

Jeff

I'm not really sure what the fuss is about. Yes there was a deal, so what! It was a winner take all but being both capable bowlers I approached Carl and asked if he interested in a split. The reason for that is if the left read was better than the left I would have won and if they the right was better Carl would have won. As it turned out it was an extremely fair condition and Carl deserved to win.

In todays enviroment any money you can get is a win. There is nothing stopping the rest of the field splitting the money if the other 8 were able to beat Carl and myself. This is not the first time it has happended and you'll be surprised to know Jeff it happens every day somewhere!!!!

I encourage other people to do it as it increases your chances of making money. Whilst you don't win as much are we pushing for payouts rather than top heavy prizefunds. This is in our own way adressing that problem through a mutual agreement.

Your whole Sports series was about paying down further and encouragement to bowl again. How many you going to get if it was a $1000 take all per event? All we did was try and ensure that we both got money. I see no problems with that.

It's all done Jeff, better mover on to another subject!

 

[wchester]

Jeff,
Yes, they agreed to a split before bowling. It IS very common amongst bowlers especially when the prize fund is top heavy or in this case, winner take all. It's done in pot games, in handicap tournaments, in scratch tournaments like the High Rollers..and believe it or not..it's done in PBA Tournaments.

I still cannot understand why you have a problem with splitting or chopping as it's called in the States. The two bowlers involved paid TWO seperate entry fees for a chance at winning ONE HALF the prize fund apiece.
In my mind it's no different to betting a large sum of money on a 1-5 favourite at the racetrack...or in the case of lots of Australian punters, it's exactly the same thing as joining a Tattslotto Syndicate.

The rest of the field at Richlands still had to beat the high scorer on the day to win all the loot. That was the format before, during, and after the arranged split.

No matter how you slice it. At the end of the day, the better bowlers will ALWAYS go home with the dough..in this case they simply chose to limit their take to 50% of the prize.

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

Your right BFCC

I've just had a quick word to GOD ( I don't mean George) and he explained to me that when the moral high ground needs to be reached your the man!

I guess now I've been put in my place and I'll come to you prior to making any future decisions with regard to my bowling. I'm kind of in a hurry but is it okay if I pay the full entry and bowl at Redciffe in their event? Just checking as I wouldn't want to go against the moral god himself.

And as for people looking up to George and myself. The only reason this became any sort of issue is that you put it on a public forum. If you have had a genuine concern about this it may have been worthwhile coming direct to the source or does it make you feel more important placing it on a public forum. Somehow you know what others dont.

The reality is I paid $80 like everyone else. I won $500 because I knocked over the most pins. End of story.

Will it improve local numbers? I dont see why it should change. As you said George and I can both play and would be likely favourites along with a few others at most events so why should one of us winning cause any great concern. As for entries both George and myself support as many tournaments as anyone in this state including going to Richlands at 9 pm on a Friday night which for your information would not have had the required numbers if it weren't for us.

I dont know whether your jealous or what your real motive is but I cant see why putting the better bowlers down is in your interest of improving tournamnet numbers. They have a name for your syndrome and its called tall poppies.

All I can say is if you really want a say in these things come and play in them. It's a case of put up or shut up!

By the way this first really started at the TV show when Cara and Maxine made a deal to split any winnings. Again there would have been 2 against 1 but did we care? NO!

Finally as for losing your respect, well I'll be losing a lot of sleep over that. Snore, Snore, Snore.

 

[bfcc]

well carl you certianly put me in my place , me and my morals will just go and sit in the corner and wait for you and george to say it is okay to come out.
the reason i put this on the forum was i saw the bad side for tenpin bowling and was hoping that this might stop it from happening again.seems like i am the only one that saw this as a problem , so i must be wrong . i wish you and george the best of luck at redcliffe.

 

[Kimberley]

As you all can see from the standings list, I bowled and help hold up the back end. I had my name down and was going to pull out at the last minute. The only reason I bowled even though I was tired and sporting and injury, was that it was unfair to the other bowlers that had made the journey to support the event. If I didn't bowl I was told by the staff at Richlands that the prize money would not have been $500, winner take all. I have been given a great deal of support from these bowlers and could not let them down. It was a shame not to see more of the top class bowlers there.

As for the prize splitting, I know myself that I have agreed with certain bowlers to split any prize money won in the tournaments that we bowl in. One example is the scratch skins that Richlands held earlier in the year. I made this agreement with another bowler and we cleaned up. Yes.... I actually bowled 4 x 220+ games in a row to take the money and also took a couple of second places too! I think that it is more common to make these agreements than bowlers realise.... I just don;t think it is talked about much.

I agree with Carl in the fact that he did beat all the other bowlers on th night and he did deserve the win. However, what Carl decides to do with his winnings is entirely up to him.

Just my thoughts!

Kim

 

[Tiger Bottomley]

Time to stop

I think this debate is at an end.

Do I think what was done was bad for bowling? No

Would I be upset if others did it against me? No, So long as they werent sharing information about the conditions. ( which happens anyway. Just stand and listen to bowlers talk)

Would I do it again? Definately not if there is more than one place on offer. Like most events. But in a winner take all or skins format I dont know.

Did I belive it would cause any furore? No

Jeff,

You obvoiusly have your opinion that your more than entitled to but I think you would sometimes be better served going to the people involved rather than placing things on a public forum like this.

I dont believe I've done anything to the true spirit of competition and if I felt I had I most certainly wouldnt of done it. I've had many occassions where I've asked for prize funds to be altered even though it would affect my Hip pocket. Ask George if he was genuinely happy about my prize fund change at Capalaba last year when we were running 1,2.

I hope this can be laid to rest and we can get back to the bowling and real issues.

 

[jimcross]

Just read this post,and find it difficult to understand what the fuss is about.
In any Tournament,some win money and some dont. - Does'nt matter whether it's a prizemoney run-down,skins,or winner take all.
The prizemoney won by the person or persons,belongs to them,and they can do whatever they want with it,and surely that includes giving it away.

How can what somebody does with THEIR prizemoney have any effect on,or indeed be the concern of,anybody else?

If I'm missing something here,will some bright spark please explain to me what it is.