Prizefund at NSW Open

[GeorgeF]

Seems like the guys are kicking in a considerable chunk into the womens prizefund. How is this fair? Why not just give the women 9 start per game and combine the prizefunds? Dont get me wrong, I'm still bowling however I dont agree with the prizefund distribution whatsoever......

 

[Roysa]

Dont get me wrong but wouldnt this thread be better positioned in the NSW tourny forum or even the NSW open thread?

Or were you deliberatley making a point George?

 

[GeorgeF]

I'm making a point, I dont care what tournament it is, the prizefund should be distributed evenly and based on entries, guys shouldnt be paying for the girls because there is not enough female participants.

 

[Michael Little]

I agree with George, not just for this tournament but for various tournaments over recent years, the guys entry money or additional sponsorship has gone in to bump up the women's prizefund which I believe to be incorrect. I understand women's entries are low, but perhaps the Euro tour idea of adding some pins to womens games and including them with the men as one field has some merit outside of designated seperate events.

In regards to the NSW Open, it is quite easy to see the costings broken down.

Entry is $230 per person, based on 60 guys that is $13800 in entry money for the men with a payout of $9800. Based on 20 women $4600 in entry money but $4440 being paid out. The womens prize fund is based on 1 in 2 payout, guys 1 in 3 payout.

Guys will bowl a total of around 812 games for the tournament at say a $6 game rate, that is $4872 to the bowl. The women bowl 292 games with $2400 going for game fees. This means that the mens prizefund is being topped up by $872 whilst the womens prizefund is being topped up by $2240 and they receive a better payout ratio.

Also I am unsure if it meets ranking points criteria due to not having the correct ratio of payout for the mens top 10 or last place of the finals which should be a 4:6 ratio? This means 10th place should be $345 if I am not mistaken with 10th place prizemoney currently being at $250. Who knows, I guess as long as it was approved by the TBA.

 

[becka_girl]

I think you will find a lot of females will then not enter the tournaments if you make it mixed.....

 

[Michael Little]

I think you will find a lot of females will then not enter the tournaments if you make it mixed.....

Hey Bec, not saying they all need to be, but in some instances where there is likely to be such a disparity in prize money ratios between male and female it kind of makes sense to do so, combine entries, no disputes/comments about inequality of the prize funds etc.

I know you guys struggle quite a lot for entries sometimes, and hopefully the women support the hell out of this tournament, but the initial prize payout compared to entries based on and entry fee is inequal.

 

[becka_girl]

Hey Bec, not saying they all need to be, but in some instances where there is likely to be such a disparity in prize money ratios between male and female it kind of makes sense to do so, combine entries, no disputes/comments about inequality of the prize funds etc.

I know you guys struggle quite a lot for entries sometimes, and hopefully the women support the hell out of this tournament, but the initial prize payout compared to entries based on and entry fee is inequal.

yeah i get what you are saying....like i would still bowl but some may not
The rankings calendar next year just shows how much we are struggling....kegal which was a womens & mens division this year is now mixed

 

[lgt]

George and Michael are not the only bowlers to make coment on the prize fund payout for Men in the NSW Open. There is a long and varied discussion from many points of view regards the level of womens prize fund, whether to give +pins to women and one division (not currently permitted), or to recognise the value of supporting women in sport.

I have personally added $ to the womens payout, as I have done for that division for many tournaments over the last four years. Whether that has been successful is not an issue, but I will review my committment to supporting tournaments for 2012. I have topped up the mens payout by $1000 ($872 calculation close - $275 ranking fee, printing, tournament room expenses). As previously noted the mens prize fund will be added to with increase of numbers - I never post payouts based on 'hopeful' entries to make the $ look better.

I have worked on combined payout amounts and apologise for any issues this has generated, I will contact TBA for clarification.

Thanks
Leanne

 

[Deano]

Hey guys i can see both sides of the story here. With our Sunraysia Cup next year being our first year it will be mixed but as one of the organisers of it we have they incentive of prizemoney for the highest placed female that dosent qualify for the finals, its only $500 but its better than nothing. We are also doing this with highest senior and also youth/junior. Somthing is better than nothing i spose.

Deano

 

[Michael Little]

George and Michael are not the only bowlers to make coment on the prize fund payout for Men in the NSW Open. There is a long and varied discussion from many points of view regards the level of womens prize fund, whether to give +pins to women and one division (not currently permitted), or to recognise the value of supporting women in sport.

I have personally added $ to the womens payout, as I have done for that division for many tournaments over the last four years. Whether that has been successful is not an issue, but I will review my committment to supporting tournaments for 2012. I have topped up the mens payout by $1000 ($872 calculation close - $275 ranking fee, printing, tournament room expenses). As previously noted the mens prize fund will be added to with increase of numbers - I never post payouts based on 'hopeful' entries to make the $ look better.

I have worked on combined payout amounts and apologise for any issues this has generated, I will contact TBA for clarification.

Thanks
Leanne

And it is commendable adding to the prizefund from own sponsorship, but this shouldn't be necessary, only the women know and only other bowlers know for other various tournaments, but why are some tournaments supported better than others. I mean it is quite logical with some of the previous AMF ones were the customer service was on the poor side, but tournaments like this run by Leanne or Mary and her crew for the Kegel, don't have that excuse as their customer service levels are generally to a high standard. It is up to the women who want tournaments to bowl in, to carry on supporting the tournaments, otherwise there will be literally F all to bowl in and they will have noone to blame but themselves. It really p*sses me off to see tournaments not being supported properly for no genuine reason, clashes etc etc.

 

[Michelle]

There's a comment made that a lot of females won't enter tournaments if it's mixed, but obviously women aren't supporting there own tournaments now without it being mixed!!! I'm all for women in sport but if they can't be bothered bowling tournaments and supporting their own bowling why should the men have to give their money to them.. It's not their fault, they are still supporting tournies.

I just spent a week at the nationals and more than half of the women there I've never seen at a tournament.

 

[Michael Little]

There's a comment made that a lot of females won't enter tournaments if it's mixed, but obviously women aren't supporting there own tournaments now without it being mixed!!! I'm all for women in sport but if they can't be bothered bowling tournaments and supporting their own bowling why should the men have to give their money to them.. It's not their fault, they are still supporting tournies.

I just spent a week at the nationals and more than half of the women there I've never seen at a tournament.

I agree, where the hell are all of these players, not just women but guys as well when there are other tournaments to bowl in and support? Not everyone has to bowl in every national tournament around if they don't think they are suited to doing so, but plenty of entries at this years nationals suggest there are plenty of tournament bowlers around and it is the smaller events like the Orange Open, the Newcastle Cup etc and other equivalents in other states that need the support. These events give an outlet to enter a tournament for a smaller fee, still compete against other similar skilled bowlers and win some decent money, and they deserve support.

 

[CT]

You shouldn't be paying into a prizefund that you can't compete for, it is that simple. If $150 of my entry fee is prizefund, then the prizefund i'm bowling for should include that full amount. It isn't fair to ask people to pay $150 in prizefund and only have $100 of it in the prizefund they are actually competeing for. (Figures are just for example)

 

[lgt]

Not quite sure I understand that one Chris - but I think you are referring to state champs etc where there is an advertised breakdown of costs.
With tournaments it is an advertised payout and entry fee - and up to the bowler to make the choice to be invovled.

Just to support the NSW Open and reaffirm that the advertised payout is based on 60 men, and currently we have 80 men. I do not post payouts based on 'hopeful' numbers to have the payout look better. To date I have never had to reduce the payout for a ranked event.

Leanne

 

[amagill]

Not quite sure I understand that one Chris - but I think you are referring to state champs etc where there is an advertised breakdown of costs.
With tournaments it is an advertised payout and entry fee - and up to the bowler to make the choice to be invovled.

Just to support the NSW Open and reaffirm that the advertised payout is based on 60 men, and currently we have 80 men. I do not post payouts based on 'hopeful' numbers to have the payout look better. To date I have never had to reduce the payout for a ranked event.

Leanne

I think what Chris is trying to say there Leanne is, that if $150 of his entry fee is to go to a prize fund, he expects 100% of that $150 to go to the Men's prize fund, not $100 to men's prize fund, and $50 to the women's prize fund.

That is how I understood it after reading it.

Andy Magill.

 

[Michelle]

The issue isn't with the amount of men entries being higher than what the prize money is based on, the issue is with the lack of female bowlers supporting the tournament and the men's money going to their prizefund. It's obvious there are a lot of female bowlers out there of they can't be bothered bowling why should the men have to suffer! No offence but the women don't pay our bills.

 

[GeorgeF]

I think we should adopt the European formats and give women 8 or 9 pins start, this gives women a lot of advantages

* Improve your skill level
* Compete for more money
* Gain more valuable experience

It's worked in Europe for 5 years now, why cant we do it?

 

[Michael Little]

I think we should adopt the European formats and give women 8 or 9 pins start, this gives women a lot of advantages

* Improve your skill level
* Compete for more money
* Gain more valuable experience

It's worked in Europe for 5 years now, why cant we do it?

Because my friend, I do not wish to watch you bowl in a skirt, those white pants are hideous enough as they are

On a serious note, am sure some events could adopt this to their formats, although maybe a few women shouldn't be allowed to enter as they may walk away with the loot!

 

[lgt]

The current rules for ranked events do not permit + pins for women- and it is something I would like to discuss with TBA. The ASC acknowledges the need to support women in sport with valid reasons, and funding of National Sporting Organisations, such as TBA, is dependent on ticking this box.

Might be time for the NSO to step up and support womens divisions in tournaments?

Leanne

 

[FLOWER]

Sad to say, the Kegel in 2012 has had to cut the Women's division as it is impossible to create a reasonable Prize Fund for the women with approx. 30 entries or less. The 2011 inaugural Kegel Qld. Open included the Women's World roll offs - I feel certain that some bowlers who nominated would not do so if that roll off was not included and much as I support women's bowling and have done so for many, many years, I cannot justify including a separate payout.

The Qld. Ladies Classic is the only remaining 'stand alone' women's National event in the calendar and with a drop of approx. 12 bowlers this year, it is difficult to imagine centres giving up their social/party play to host so few. Sad but true and my sympathies are with Leanne and others right now. Us 'poor, maligned' tournament organisers are between a rock and a hard place. I don't think giving women x number of pins per game will encourage more women to bowl - it is preaching to the converted! The Top women will compete but tournament organisers will struggle to fill 'women only' events with up and coming and dedicated lower average bowlers who want to bowl with their idols.

It is stating the obvious re difficulty in getting sponsors. They are just not interested in giving lots of $$$ for 30 or less women.

Flower