Priority, Surface or layout

[da_cowman]

How much difference in reaction do you see between a Fast and a Natural?

Same core. Drill them the same. Hell, even get your abralon and give them both a nice going over with a 1000 pad. Then compare just how much difference the Cover stock makes.

When comparing two balls exactly the same, then of course pin and MB location will be the contributing factor in the DIFFERENCE between these two balls, but the amount of hook and where it hooks, for the most part will be down to the cover.

The cover will still dictate, for the most part, where and how your ball will read. We tend to forget that many covers available today are at least as strong as the most aggressive cover from probably a decade ago. I remember a ball company using the High Performance cover from only one or two years prior on their new mid line balls, just as an example as to how quickly manufacturers move in regards to cover stock technology. And in saying that, the volumes of patterns and lengths as also increased on average, especially at tournaments are usually the reasons for this or vice versa, probably vice versa... But not really relevant at the moment

John, at league your approach is probably a pretty good one. You rarely need to make big moves, especially at StrikeZone so having the same ball drilled slightly differently will probably give you the change in reaction you need to keep carrying.
But how did this approach work at other events you have bowled in? Somedays you'll get away with it, sometimes we all will and won't even have to change balls for a whole tournament (thats called the jackpot). But, sometimes the solid cover polished just doesn't quite give you the same movement as pearl ball, and sometimes the pearl ball dull just isn't enough, and you really need that solid ball to provide the traction to get the carry.

For the most part, I believe in drilling balls up to do what they do best. It's worked for me, and I have had some wonderful exceptions (most notably a 1" pin to PAP Black Ice that struck a tonne), but I've had some real shockers too when trying to fight it. I usually find another ball does the job better almost every time...

Cow

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Stephen,

Thanks for that input, it is the kind of info that helps the League Hack like myself understand the difference between us and tournament bowlers like yourself.

That approach as to what you stick in your bag when going to a tournament is the type of info I was looking for from this thread, to help us choose with thought rather than by colour if you like. The key there is knowing the type of bowler you are, revs, tilt etc. Then drilling the ball to get the most out of the cover and core combination.

Again no point drilling the pin super long if you have no hand at the release point.

I also understand that yesterdays Super ball is today’s entry level ball. That is reflected in the price. I like the entry to mid level stuff because they are cheaper to experiment with. Once that experimentation is done and my understanding is sharper, then the better stuff will go into my bag. Until then I can't justify the difference in cost.

On the layout side and cover choice I found this article that most of you have probably seen, worth a look at.

Understanding Bowling Balls & Layouts - YouTube

Thanks again to every body that has offered input.

 

[da_cowman]

I actually haven't seen that video, and will watch it later on. But I love Fred Borden's enthusiasm. Fred did a few clinics while I was at Wichita and the guy is bouncing, he never ever stops. Gave a 2-3 hour lecture one night, then spent the whole next day coaching about 70 kids in hours blocks. Real credit to the sport.

Cow

 

[jason_doust]

Nice link John. I did a pro shop course with Fred Borden in 1991 or 2. He's a really interesting guy. And Cow's right. He's got some perpetual motion red cordial somewhere!

I think between the comments, we're getting a nice summary together. As Fred Borden says, you're looking to control length, then shape. Surface is the greatest determinant of length and has a say about shape as well. Particularly if you apply reductio ad absurdum and you get no friction, no shape. In fact, absolute friction would also give you no shape. The shape we call hook occurs in between 0 and 1 on the friction scale, which just happens to be binary. Core design (RG, Diff and MB if applicable) is a big determinant of shape. Layout tweaks shape nicely, and in direct relation to your rev rate. Going back to my car analogy, your hand is the engine, it provides the locomotion.

So a lower rev rate player sees less difference from layouts than a higher rev rate player, hence Paul sees a big difference in his Hy-Roads, as they have a strong cover and core and he has a high rev rate. More revs means he has a greater multiplier, as Ed Kee teased me as a junior when we were talking about plastic ball reaction. Going back to the car, his bigger engine sees more difference when he changes gear between balls.

As Terry says, all your balls should do different things at an event and then you can then knit them into a continuum with releases and maybe speed. Otherwise, you're just busting a sweat carrying duplicates into the bowl. A ball that works well from inside 20 board on the long will almost certainly suck off the edge on the short. But at least on those extreme ends, the choices are obvious. It's the medium lengths that can be trickiest, as the differences become mush more subtle and subjective to the individual.

As Cow says, he's had most success using the gear to do what it's designed to do. I think that's a pretty sound philosophy, with a few exceptions. I quite like a strong ball drilled weaker, but I know others who get better results with a weak ball drilled stronger to do the same job. Horses for courses. Cow's point about house china vs real bowling (my words) is salient. They are two very different games and require different approaches to shot shape, especially as the players rev rate goes up.

So, as a guide;

1. Surface for length
2. Core design for shape (surface come in here too, in terms of material - e.g. pearl vs. solid, but this isn't always an absolute indication, depending on the manufacturer)
3. Layout to refine the angle

There's a couple of interesting philosophical points I need to consider before I continue this line of thought... See you in a few years...

 

[Brenton_Davy]

So, as a guide;

1. Surface for length
2. Core design for shape (surface come in here too, in terms of material - e.g. pearl vs. solid, but this isn't always an absolute indication, depending on the manufacturer)
3. Layout to refine the angle

There's a couple of interesting philosophical points I need to consider before I continue this line of thought... See you in a few years...

John,

In relation to your 1st post, Jason has encapsulated it nicely above. I am a believer in having a variety of layouts, then adjusting the surface to suit. Todays game is all about maximising carry, expecially on house patterns, especially during transitions. This requires having the access to different breakpoint shapes and lengths.

It's no good having the perfect length but lacking the correct reaction shape. That's a great way to average 190 which doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[Wal Brooker]

Just to add my two cents to the debate .. recently I was poking around YouTube and found a series on Bowling Tips by a guy called Richard Shockley.

Of particular interest was an item titled 'Bowling Tip of The Week - A Fireside Chat about Drilling'.

To me it sought of made sense to me what the guy was talking about. It's about 11 minutes long and relates to the statistics he has gathered over a number of years working at Kegal.

He talks about why (in his opnion) layout is not so important until a bowler gets to an average well over 200.

Like to hear some of our pro shop operators opinion on his views.

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Wal,

He makes a very good point. The biggest thing for any bowler is understanding where they sit as a bowler. I am a league hack, maybe four good shots in a game averagig 200 on a house shot. Most of my layouts are smooth rolling. Why, because I can't do it twice in row. Drives dad crazy to watch, but I am honest with myself and keep my kit complementing itself. Like Terry mantioned, keep the kit progressive like golf clubs is the best starting point.

 

[jason_doust]

Hi Wal,

Great stuff. Richard Shockley makes some very salient points here. Bowling Tip of the Week - A Fireside Chat about Drilling - YouTube

When a customer comes to me for a ball, I never ask how do they want to lay it out, unless they are very competent in that field. (And that's what people are usually coming to me for!) I'll ask open probes about what part of the lane, what kind of condition, what shape of hook they are after. Then it's my job to choose some balls that will suit, narrow it down to one, get it in, then adjust surface and layout in a manner that will best suit them. (Note here - I don't change OOB surface too often before the customer uses the ball. I usually recommend a ball that has the right kind of surface to begin with.) There's often a bit of discussion that goes on about this point.

There's some really interesting data that he quotes that backs up what I've said about house shots in lots of other threads. Like the accuracy stats:

Var. - Variation
Tgt - Target
BP - Break Point
Spd - Speed Variation in MPH



His pro stats come from Walter Ray Williams Jr. WRW demonstrates that at the top level, it's about quality of shot making.

But back on thread, Richard Shockley makes the point that for a 170-200 average bowler, the right ball and surface is all you need. Once you get past that point, these finer factors become useful. I agree up to the point of the skid-flip ball. I get requests from bowlers for something to go really long and turn really hard. I ask them how much money have they got to waste? Skid flip layouts are for experienced players only and only when they need one to fill a hole in their arsenal. A strong arc ball is much more useful and adaptable. So there's a layout choice for the lower average player (a choice in the negative, but still a choice) that gets applied to almost everyone.

Cheers,
Jason