Presidents Shield change.

[luke]

i think tbaq needs to look at what moberman just wrote the tournaments over the year is the only fair way to do it. and it proves who the best bowlers are.

luke green

 

[bitchy lil brunette]

silly decision, 5+2 is the best system. yeah sure if you make top 5 you have earned your spot. but what happens if hamish or matt simpson or people like that didnt make it,because of having some problem then how in all honesty can south qld take away there best team. you need the flexabilty to choose 2other people. and at the end of the day we are going away to win shield, and we need the strongest team possible to do that.

Honestly Luke, I could not agree with you more!

 

[becky22]

But what about the people that bowled well on the day, but came in 6th and 7th????? Don't you think it should be fair on them???? It's unfair to people that bowl well in trials but get overlooked because someone 'SUPPOSEDLY' better than wasn't.

 

[GrandLeo]

(Not adding any new information here but ...)

Here Here Moberman! that is the most intelligent blurb I've read on this site for a while! Well done! I hope the powers to be read (and re-read) it!

 

[Stuart Little]

Geez, so if George Frillingos, has a bad day and didnt make the team, does that mean he doesnt deserve to go, being the # 1 bowler in Australia, i disagree with your comment. This is just an example.
No matter which way you go there is always someone that misses out. I think with the pick 2, it gives flexability when chooseing the other two bowlers. Just who picks them???, this i dont know, but would hope that they have some knowlege of bowling, and know reputation of bowlers, not just good friends with there parents.
Hammer
www.lane1bowling.com

If he wasnt the best on the day, they it just shows that he may not always preform! Just because they are the best bowler, doesnt mean they will always be on top

 

[bm2]

selection processes are always going to have these gray areas - you could select the entire 7 and still people wouldn't be happy with the makeup of the team, the same as if only 2 are selected, or if it is 1st 7 past the post. There is always going to be someone who SHOULD HAVE been in the side but isn't, for whatever reason. Just take a look at old forum topics of how many people have missed out on national selection, for whatever reason, to see that it is not just a state problem.

Broni M:x-mas:

 

[disco stu]

here is a resolution for it all

just make the top 5 so that there is no need to worry about being picked for the team

Matt Simpson

 

[beammeupscotty]

Just curious scince there are changes to the actuall bowlers should there be changes to the selection of coaches maangers etc.

Just curious on peoples thoughts on that

 

[~Mrs STORM~]

here is a resolution for it all
just make the top 5 so that there is no need to worry about being picked for the team
Matt Simpson

Definatly the easiest way to make a team...

 

[Stuart Little]

here is a resolution for it all
just make the top 5 so that there is no need to worry about being picked for the team
Matt Simpson

Mattys right, i learnt the hard way

 

[Suzi]

I agree with the first 7 past the post. In the Seniors, we have the roll-offs and the teams are seleced on the first 6 for the open teams (men & women), and the first 3 on handicap for each of the men (<179) & women (< 169) in the restricted team. This may be the rule for some other Adult teams, and I believe it is the fairest for all concerned. It is not that if the person coming first on day one and injuring him/herself, and finally ending up out of the teams don't get a fair chance, but if you are injured, sometimes it is better if you aren't in the team because of that.
Suzi

 

[RobbieB]

Presidents Shield, DeVeer, Rachuig and all other rep team competition is about getting the best team available on the paddock. I personally don't believe that 7 past the post is the best way to do that, and I think that the 5 + 2 system is a good one. There are circumstances that can prevent bowlers from making the team (injury, work commitments,etc), and I think that this needs to be allowed for. However, for the process to be seen to be fair to everyone, the selection criteria need to be clearly set out at the beginning of the year so that all bowlers know what they have to do to put themselves into contention for the selected positions if they miss the top 5. I see no reason why selection cannot be based on an established points system which takes into account league average and tournament results through the year. This would ensure that the selectors AND THE BOWLERS have an established ranking of the bowlers in the rolloff, and simply take the top two points leaders outside the top 5.

Obviously, setting up the ranking system is going to be the hard part, as it would have to weight the available junior events, intercity, and league average, and decide what to do in case some people have bowled more or less events, but a set points ranking would allow an open and impartial selection process.

Comments?

Robbie Buckley.

 

[The Spanner]

I don't think you could use league average, Robbie. Different centres can play 30 pins difference in averages. That would be unfair to the bowlers playing in the low scoring centres.

Even if you set out all the criteria, you will still get people saying 'so and so should be in that side'. There are also costs involved getting to all of the ranking tournaments ... what if you couldn't make a few of them?

Top 7 past the post is the easiest, fairest, and will draw the least complaints, because people will know exactly why they missed out. If the roll off is over 20 or so games, the cream will rise to the top I'm sure.

 

[ACE]

i think robbie has a good point in saying that everyone should be aware of the slection criteria. I myself would like to know what it is, just out of curiosity. That way, there can be no making-up-the-rules-as-we-go-along.
HOWEVER, when using criteria to judge, it is up to the selectors' discretion as to how well everyone meets the requirements. in the end, you get selected or not based on somebody's opinion. This WILL cause problems, because everyone's opinion is different, hence the arguments over who makes the team that go on at the moment.
I'm not saying that the one selection system is better than the other, but both have flaws. On the Top 7 system, you may have someone bowl a blinder and never do it again, but they made cut, so they get in. While this is entirely fair, and kudos to that bowler, once again, people are going to be unhappy to see it happen if in their eyes someone who missed out could do it better.
The idea of having a points and ranking system that goes on for longer isn't bad, except for those who can't make every tournament due to work, injury, etc. NQ is a big area, about 800km between cairns and mackay, so people may be unwilling to travel. I'm not sure where all the SQ bowlers are from, or if distance would be a problem down there too, so I can't speak for them.
In the end, Top 7 is probably the fairer system for giving credit and recognition to those who bowled well, rather than overlooking them for somebody else. Provided you have fair and knowledgeable selectors, the 5-2 system can work (i owe my first year of shield to it) but there is always going to be someone dissapointed. Still wouldn't mind knowing what the selectors' criteria is though.

 

[Halo05]

The basic reason for the change is the increasing number of complaints received in the State office.
Parents want to know why their children were not selected, why other children were selected and so on. We have had parents using words like favouritism, bias and nepotism.
We have had parents telling us they are taking their children out of the sport because of this.
And Peter Martin is right too, bowlers are starting to get lawyers involved over selection issues. However when a parent tells us that they are taking their kids out of the sport thats an even bigger worry.
Any parent with a child involved in any competitive sport will be acutely aware of the selection process, and there will always be cause for doubt and suspicion when their child is subject to judgement by others.
By resorting to 7 past the post it will go a long way to ensuring fairness in the eyes of both the competitors and their parents.
Not everyone will agree with this move. However the board feels that it is in the best interests of all Junior bowlers to eliminate the present level of criticism regarding Shield selections.

Yes few years ago i have biggest complaint and very Piss off, you know why when i bowl in roll off normally my average was 178 by that time and i wasnt pick to be in the team, one person(cleary remember the person from towoomba) who has lower average worse 142 that person got into team, as i was hurt by it.

the whole parents have no idea why i wasnt in the team they knew i was top qld bowler and rank 1st many of parents have confusion what is going on there was no warning anything about new rules that have change since by than. i started withdrawn with qld team because i am not interested into it.

also the selection who pick the person because father or mother who work for, also pick the person (their interested), etc that is load of crap.

that is biggest loss and also i dont want apologize from qld team at all.

 

[Stuart Little]

Yes few years ago i have biggest complaint and very Piss off, you know why when i bowl in roll off normally my average was 178 by that time and i wasnt pick to be in the team, one person(cleary remember the person from towoomba) who has lower average worse 142 that person got into team, as i was hurt by it.
the whole parents have no idea why i wasnt in the team they knew i was top qld bowler and rank 1st many of parents have confusion what is going on there was no warning anything about new rules that have change since by than. i started withdrawn with qld team because i am not interested into it.
also the selection who pick the person because father or mother who work for, also pick the person (their interested), etc that is load of crap.
that is biggest loss and also i dont want apologize from qld team at all.

Can i ask who you are?

 

[fairy_dust]

Yes few years ago i have biggest complaint and very Piss off, you know why when i bowl in roll off normally my average was 178 by that time and i wasnt pick to be in the team, one person(cleary remember the person from towoomba) who has lower average worse 142 that person got into team, as i was hurt by it.
the whole parents have no idea why i wasnt in the team they knew i was top qld bowler and rank 1st many of parents have confusion what is going on there was no warning anything about new rules that have change since by than. i started withdrawn with qld team because i am not interested into it.
also the selection who pick the person because father or mother who work for, also pick the person (their interested), etc that is load of crap.
that is biggest loss and also i dont want apologize from qld team at all.

and can i ask who the toowoomba person was???

 

[~Mrs STORM~]

Yes few years ago i have biggest complaint and very Piss off, you know why when i bowl in roll off normally my average was 178 by that time and i wasnt pick to be in the team, one person(cleary remember the person from towoomba) who has lower average worse 142 that person got into team, as i was hurt by it.
the whole parents have no idea why i wasnt in the team they knew i was top qld bowler and rank 1st many of parents have confusion what is going on there was no warning anything about new rules that have change since by than. i started withdrawn with qld team because i am not interested into it.
also the selection who pick the person because father or mother who work for, also pick the person (their interested), etc that is load of crap.
that is biggest loss and also i dont want apologize from qld team at all.

Maybe it was your poor english skills?

 

[Mini]

I have to admit, being from Toowoomba, I too am interestde in hearing who this person is and who from my home town beat them.

 

[kenny_jim]

thats a very weird case halo, me and matty j were trying to think back ova the years the other day to see if we could figure out who u r, i think alot of ppl would be very intesrested to find out who u r, cause there isnt many stories goin round like urs , have a good day