Moorabbin Tournament 1963

[steve jones]

Thx Terry this is really great to have - pls thank Pat as well I'm sure she has a mine of history. Jim's frustrations are good to see - it means that I am not alone in thinking I am losing my mind - things that I thought were so clear and positive [like when Moorrabbin was built and opened] are way off the mark when the facts are presented under your nose. Annoying it sure is...but it has taught me a great lesson - I will never suggest that what I believe to be right is right - without giving myself an "easy out" when I'm proven wrong.

 

[jimcross]

Yes Steve, it's amazing. I was SO SURE, and WRONG, at the same time. After all, I was there, and I REMEMBERED !! What a lesson, I would have bet all sorts of money. This has made me look closer. I dug out an old 'photo, - actually a frame from a film of a TV show, filmed at West Ryde Centre, and there I am with the TV shirt on ( light Blue / Dark blue) proclaiming " Jim Cross - Bondi Junction". The show was a 'knockout' comp, screened weekly, prob late 1962, and into '63. I think Eric Jang won it. There was no money ( from memory - ha!) just electrical goods. We still had one of the prizes - a radiator- until a recent move. This time I AM Sure ! Well, almost, probably ?
What was that Tourny at Moorabbin ?

This question has shown that there are lots of records around of the early days, and probably lots lost. Would'nt it be great to be able to centralise them?

 

[steve jones]

Jim - just a short comment on what once was. In the early 1990's the ATBC relocated from it's offices in Chatswood to purchased premises in Brookvale. The new location was purpose built and had a formal room dedicated as a "museum" and a significant and well kept library [both literature, records, videos and 35mm film etc etc].

Some time in the mid-late 1990's there was a transition and some of those that were once responsible for keeping the data in place and adding to it - were moved on. I understand that those that came after instigated a downsizing and I am further led to believe that some of what was "downsized" was part of that history [to what degree I am unsure].

So Jim at one time the history and records were significant and well maintained - I know this for a fact as at the time of the move from Chatswood to Brookvale I was the Director of Marketing & Media for the ATBC and drawing a lot of this material together was my responsibility [along with the CEO of the day].

I should add I was not one of those "moved on" as I left the Congress prior to the transition period and then a short time thereafter left Australia to join Brunswick Corporation. Thus I am unable to comment first hand on what actually transpired in the downsizing and transition from one organisation to another.

However someone at the TBA may well be able to advise what is actually available now. I believe one of the current TBA directors was on hand during the entire transition period from the ATBC to TBA, it would be interesting to get some feedback from that individual as to what may have happened to the formal history and records. Perhaps I am wrong [won't be the first time as you know] and no records or materials were destroyed and it is all in secure storage somewhere - or better yet maintained, being updated regularly on display and available to be viewed, just as it once was.

It would be interesting to find out..don't you agree?

Cheers

Steve,

 

[jimcross]

Goodness Steve, I hope you are wrong about the downsizing. I was unaware of any of this, though I was involved to a reasonable extent in the 'changeover', and the later setting up of TBA in the initial period of it's operation, under Peter " Bevan" ? Have I got that name right?
I had previously been NSW Manager of CAMS for a number of years, so had some experience in a similar organisation.
I recently had reason to contact CAMS, about an important publication of theirs ( of 1973 ), only to find that in their 'modernisation", they appear to have lost every copy.
Hope TBA hasn't been so destructive. I have had no contact of any sort with TBA, since those early days. Do you know anybody in TBA to ask about this?

 

[steve jones]

Sorry Jim as I say I was not in Australia at the time of the transition, I was away for the best part of eight years...so I simply can't help you with the Peter "Bevan" confirmation.

 

[jockey]

Jim

The odds are it was the National All Star which as in the magazine that Pat courteously sent me copies of there are listings for the latest centre final winners for 1964. The Bondi winners were listed as David Gielis averaging 180 and Ivy Link averaging 162. Please look at the image below to see if it brings back any recollections.

As to your mention of appliances there is mention of the Hoover Keymatic Tournament and Encyclopedia Britannica Tournaments in listings for upcoming events at the various Sydney Tenpin bowling centres.

Jim on second thoughts it may have been one of those two tournaments as the finals in 64 were played at Bondi Junction with centre finals in all the Brunswick listed centres. Maybe the 63 event was played at Caulfield rather than at Moorrabbin as you currently recall.

 

[jockey]

Jim

Further looking through a copy of one of the 63 ATBC magazines I hope this will help you pin point the event that you bowled in.

Also everyone should take note of the article's theme that Tenpin bowling was the richest paying sport of the time.

Pat we can't thank you enough and I'm sure everyone else who has posted on this thread totally agrees with me on this.

Steve and Jim I thoroughly concur with you two on the need to find out what if any of the history of the sport in this country has been kept intact.

Jim the All Star in 63 was held in Sydney called the $10000 Blacklock National All Star Singles.

 

[lovey]

Hi Jim,
Sorry mate I was only having a joke with Jonsey about Wes. I didnt start bowling till the 70's at St Leonards. In 1962 I was 9 years old.
Cheers Lovey

 

[jockey]

Hey Jim if you look at the post I made about the prize payouts of bowling back then you will notice that the author is Wes Jones.

 

[strop]

Lovey, no need to hide you age now, you meant 19 in 1962 didn't you?

I was only 3 then,

Cheers

Tony

 

[lovey]

Hey Strop,
After seeing you in Sydney you must have had a hard life.
Cheers Lovey

 

[strop]

Surprised you noticed me with my daughters all around me!

See you again this year if you bowl!

Cheers

Tony

 

[jimcross]

Hey Jim if you look at the post I made about the prize payouts of bowling back then you will notice that the author is Wes Jones.

Hi,Terry,
yes, that's the Wes Jones I was talking about. I notice he got in a 'plug' for 'his' centre - Totem Bowl.
I've definately sorted out what I represented Bondi Junction in. It was that 1500Pound Hecla Tourny mentioned in Wes' article. It was a weekly televised event.

Don't know what the tourny was at Moorabbin. Prob never will.

Bowling was so vibrant at that time, and was kept in the public eye by people like Wes, and the proprietors, who saw social bowlers, as people to be helped in their bowling efforts, in order to convert them to regulars in leagues, and on to higher things.

All this required work, and there were plenty of social bowlers, so I suspect proprietors tended to get lazy, and just watched the casual bowlers come and go, while the money rolled in. Their league bases started to shrink, but so what? There were plenty of casuals.

Without the league base, and not keeping up the publicity barrage, all sorts of other sports filled the void. Try finding any mention of, say, Basketball back then.

So it was that having left bowling in 1963, and other things taking up my full attention, I knew nothing of what was happening.

I returned, as a proprietor, in 1994, and asked other proprietors who I got to know, what the hell have you done? Where's the sport disappeared to?

I can see the fun, fun, fun bit, but that means you've got to get new customers every day. You're competing with every other 'entertainment' type and venue around.

With so many sports now established with a high profile, no wonder bowling has a hard row to hoe.

Sorry - got a bit carried away, but ,
, would you believe i
I feel a bit strongly about it.

 

[Belly]

Jonsy


I have been thinking about this tournament in 1963 I am sure that Sully & I went to the tournament as IBA Junior repsresentatives. Also what year did Gary Burling win the Blacklock at Mentone Bowl.

Keep it going


Belly

 

[steve jones]

..now Belly you see I'm confused [easy thing to happen given I'm an idiot]. Firstly as hard as I have tried I can't help Jim Cross with his 1963 Moorabbin event..and now you ask me a question that I can't reply to either. Terry Silva has some great records on hand and in one of his posts in this thread he mentions that the Blacklock was in fact the All Star.

Now my memory suggests that these were in fact two separate tournaments - but I'm betting Terry is right and my memory is wrong because he has media clippings to prove it. So I now have no idea and can't be sure of anything - and frankly can't even be sure I was sitting next to you at the 1983 Grand Final...did Burling play in the back pocket in that game....or was it Schultz?

Oh - one thing I do know - was that Mick Neylan won an All Star at Mentone - but that was 1969. Perhaps Gary was in Bangkok with Richard Hall that year ....or up to some funny business with Zikman.

Jones.. ...I'm pretty sure that's who I am.

 

[gaoulin]

Brunswick National All-Star
1962 Olympic Bowl Leichhardt - Eric Jang
1963 Olympic Bowl St.Leonards - John Fitch
Tournament name change to Blacklock 10,000
1964 Fairlanes Bowl Rockdale - Lance Loughlin.
The tournament was again renamed as the National All-Star & moved to Mentone Bowl under the sponsorship & operation by Alf Emerson. Unsure of the year, but I do know that the first edition of the National All-Star in Mentone was won by Joe Velo.
BTW I'm certain that Gary Burling has never won the Blacklock.
The eventual replacement in Sydney (Rockdale Bowl) for the transfer of the All-Star (Blacklock) was the Hawaiin Invitational !
Question - does anyone know the whereabouts of the original/perpetual All-Star trophy?

 

[Belly]

Thanks for the update,
You are right it was the National All Star I was getting confused with and all these years I have thought Gary Burling won the event. My appologies to to the great Joe Velo.

 

[steve jones]

Hi Eric - it's been a while - trust all is well and the cards are falling as they should. The last time I saw the trophy was, I think, at Mentone [likely 20 plus years ago however]- Warren Stewart runs Mentone these days I'll ask the question. Mind you it may well have been in amongst the ATBC Brookvale collection which we now appear to understand is likely to be in landfill somewhere - which would be just perfect!!

Thx also for the update and clarification on the branding.

Be well,

Steve

 

[steve jones]

.......it's not at Mentone.

 

[jimcross]

Brunswick National All-Star
1962 Olympic Bowl Leichhardt - Eric Jang
1963 Olympic Bowl St.Leonards - John Fitch
Tournament name change to Blacklock 10,000
1964 Fairlanes Bowl Rockdale - Lance Loughlin.
The tournament was again renamed as the National All-Star & moved to Mentone Bowl under the sponsorship & operation by Alf Emerson. Unsure of the year, but I do know that the first edition of the National All-Star in Mentone was won by Joe Velo.
BTW I'm certain that Gary Burling has never won the Blacklock.
The eventual replacement in Sydney (Rockdale Bowl) for the transfer of the All-Star (Blacklock) was the Hawaiin Invitational !
Question - does anyone know the whereabouts of the original/perpetual All-Star trophy?

Hey Eric, It's sure been a long time. Hope you're well.

Jonesy, and everyone else. I started this, and was indeed just as confused about what I THOUGHT happened, as some others.

The Tournament was when and where I said it was, but because I confused the qualifing as a centre representative thingo, I probably overstated the status of the tourny. It could have been some minor, local type thing.

The qualifing I did, which I think I'm entitled to be proud of ( Averaging 254+ with an AMF hard rubber ball, with a conventional grip, drilled directly over the 'mushroom' weight block ) was for a TV weekly Knockout type event, filmed at West Ryde, sponsored by Hecla, and, I think, won by Eric.

So, I misled you all. Sorry, but hasn't it been interesting?

You wouldn't like to hear, just once more, what my score was, and what I bowled it with ? No ? Sure ? OK then, I won't tell you.