Lane Topology explained

[DaleS]

http://www.11thframe.com/news/article/6743

Jeff Richgels article - unfortunately a little over my head but a good read none the less.

Dousty I think this ones for you

 

[John_Velo]

You know, i just had this very argument with my dad today. trying to explain that apart from my lack of talent, it can just be a matter of drawing the wrong lane at the start of a block and your toast. then follow somebody with a very sanded ball and high revs, and well it is a waisted afternoon.

 

[jason_doust]

Topology and surface condition are the biggest factors in bowling. Len Nicholson taught about 400 of us this in PBA School in 1992. With the demise of regular re-levelling through resurfacing of timber lanes, all sorts of things get out of whack over time. I bowled at Tuggeranong recently, where extensive work has been done re-levelling the panels after a bad report card and the carry seems to be a lot better. (Only been back a few weeks and GS-X pinsetters need constant attention to pin spotting, so I won't be definitive about it.)

So the topography is better and that's wonderful. (Really!) But the panel surface has been glazed through years of lane blocking (no oil outside 10 board, euphemistically called a house shot) to make them easier for people who'd rather not have to aim or roll the ball well. This neglect means that a flatter pattern plays reverse as a result now. Put down 6:1, which should be pretty easy, and it'll be pretty damned tricky, at least on the right hand side.

I especially appreciate the comments about how the slow bowler is no longer competitive. Between super aggressive bowling balls and topology issues, they can't control the reaction. I spend all my time trying to throw my straight ball release when I shoe up now. It still hooks plenty!

Also, it's very interesting to look at Norm Duke's rev rate. He's a stroker and his rev rate and resultant roll power is well above what a lot of guys hoik out there, claiming the same style of bowling.

 

[Mistagear]

If bowling were all "Match" based as per my system, lane topography issues would be irrelevant, mute, dead !
So would much of the lane conditioning discussion also !

 

[Roysa]

Would it Pete?

Id still have to hit the pocket to win, maybe even make a spare or two.

 

[Mistagear]

Roy,
Current system.
Score totals collected over different lanes and at different times where time and usage alter conditions from one competitor to the next, absolutely will always have problems in creating fair and equitable contests for all participants across time and changing conditions.
Vs
Match system.
Singles/teams competing to find a match winner on same surface and under whatever conditions prevail at that time. Having no affect on past or future matches which may or may not have happened on the lane surface before or after the current time, will have no impact on a fair and equitable contest.


Which system requires perfectly equal surface and conditions to be fair for every participant , which not ?
Which system is more easily able to achieve equity for all competitors, which not ?
Which system is likely to never be considered equal, which system already is equal ?

PS: Which system would find a future bid for inclusion as an Olympic Sport, more accepted by IOC criteria, which not ?

 

[Roysa]

Hi Pete,

If in the future you get 60 participants to an Xgames event, how do they all get to bowl on the exact same condition at the same time without using 30 lanes therefore being exposed to different lane conditions caused by past matches? Are you suggesting only 2 competitors at a time and when that match is complete a wash and re-oil?

 

[Mistagear]

They dont need to bowl on the same condition (in win based results), only condition that matters is prevailing at the time of their current match, and that affects them and their opposition only, at that time . In later matches when the condition has changed or different lanes used, it has no bearing on other match outcomes, past present or future...... unlike the current system (score based results) which does have a huge problems created by changing conditions.
Bowling needs to change from counting pins to counting wins. Imagine if other sports tried to count points scored instead of wins, many sports would suddenly be unworkable to establish fair competitions over diffeent grounds on different days and different conditions.
Do fans worry if their footy team scored less points this week than last, hardy, all they care is for the win. Do they worry what ground their team plays on, hardly. Do they worry if conditions differ between different matches, hardly.
Does it matter if one pitch is slightly different to another or if grass conditioning is different one to another ? or if one has a hill in the middle and another falls away on one side.. none of this matters because of how results are calculated.
Would not matter in bowling either if results were match based

 

[Roysa]

Pete i completely see what you are saying in that the only match that matters is the 1 currently on but that isnt the only match of the event. Ultimately a person is competing against everyone in the event.

Presuming there are people in multiple "Matches" being played on other lanes they are competing to go through to the next round. Lane topography is changing for everyone currently competing regardless.

Not to mention a large event would surely see bowlers moving lanes or they would be playing the same person.

I will leave it at that Pete (maybe agree to disagree?), i just dont see how your scoring method removes the topic of lane topography in competition events.

 

[jimcross]

I never gave this any thought before, but Pete just might have something. The thing, on X games, is that all you come out of each match with, is a win or a loss.
Present system you come out with a win - yes - but with carry over, albeit on uneven conditions. X Games, a win with a 180 game is the same as a 250 game on the scoreboard, and you all get to bowl on the 'good',as well as the 'bad.'
Hmmmmmmm ?

You may need to incorporate a regular lane change format to make it completly even, and this could be difficult.

 

[Mistagear]

Last post on this, then I'll shut up.
In my bowling tournament, match based.
Last Fri, Carlton Vs Nth Melb on lanes 1 and 2 using a fresh house condition.
Sat morning before lanes washed, St Kilda Vs Fremantle on lanes 1 and 2 and
GWS Vs Gelong Cats on lanes 3 and 4
Sat arvo after lanes washed Port Adel Vs Melb on lanes 9 and 10 and
Western Bulldogs Vs Essendon on a difficult sports pattern on lanes 5 and 6.
On Sunday, a pin-total based event was run by Normal Score Inc and when lane conditions were not equal through the whole event, competitors were rightful in being aggrieved over changing conditions.
Next week when Syd Vs Hawthorn on lane 1 and 2 on an unwashed sports pattern, nobody will care that the condition is different to either the Carlton Vs Nth Melb or St Kilda Vs Freemantle match, because all that matters is win/loss.
Nor will GWS, Gelong, Adel or Melb care that their match was on a different lane and different condition. Western Bulldogs and Essendon will not be concerned that nobody except they, played on the sports pattern and that the lane is 6" longer.
The contest is match win/loss based not score/pins based. Players fans and betting agencies have no concerns about unequal topography, because conditions do not matter. All that matters is that Sydney wins but we dont care by how many.. surely you agree about Sydney ?
Cheers, Pete
PS: Go Swans

 

[Roysa]

Sorry I cant just leave it.... Do they progress after winning a match or not? or is there just 10 matches and 5 winners?

Eventually they have to move and or face different conditions to those that their next competitor has faced. Its unavoidable.

 

[Mistagear]

Conditions will change but the point I'm trying to make..
They do not matter when they do. Lane topography would no longer be important.
Deal with whatever condition is present better than only your opponent at the time, and you win your match. Whoever continues to do that wins the tournament = fair system

 

[Loose Cannon]

So the topography is better and that's wonderful. (Really!) But the panel surface has been glazed through years of lane blocking (no oil outside 10 board, euphemistically called a house shot) to make them easier for people who'd rather not have to aim or roll the ball well. This neglect means that a flatter pattern plays reverse as a result now. Put down 6:1, which should be pretty easy, and it'll be pretty damned tricky, at least on the right hand side

This was particularly evident last sports series at blacktown with a flat short pattern at around 2:1 ratio , tricky alright ,like threading a needle every shot. The lane topography & its inherent conditions definitely added another anomaly to the challenge, evidence with the the average of the entire field of 48 bowlers being only 161.

 

[Geoff300]

Topology and surface condition are the biggest factors in bowling. Len Nicholson taught about 400 of us this in PBA School in 1992. With the demise of regular re-levelling through resurfacing of timber lanes, all sorts of things get out of whack over time. I bowled at Tuggeranong recently, where extensive work has been done re-levelling the panels after a bad report card and the carry seems to be a lot better. (Only been back a few weeks and GS-X pinsetters need constant attention to pin spotting, so I won't be definitive about it.)

So the topography is better and that's wonderful. (Really!) But the panel surface has been glazed through years of lane blocking (no oil outside 10 board, euphemistically called a house shot) to make them easier for people who'd rather not have to aim or roll the ball well. This neglect means that a flatter pattern plays reverse as a result now. Put down 6:1, which should be pretty easy, and it'll be pretty damned tricky, at least on the right hand side.

I especially appreciate the comments about how the slow bowler is no longer competitive. Between super aggressive bowling balls and topology issues, they can't control the reaction. I spend all my time trying to throw my straight ball release when I shoe up now. It still hooks plenty!

Also, it's very interesting to look at Norm Duke's rev rate. He's a stroker and his rev rate and resultant roll power is well above what a lot of guys hoik out there, claiming the same style of bowling.

You sound like the bad report card was a bad thing mate !!! lol Sorry but it needed it, It was really bad

 

[Alberto]

Conditions will change but the point I'm trying to make..
They do not matter when they do. Lane topography would no longer be important.
Deal with whatever condition is present better than only your opponent at the time, and you win your match. Whoever continues to do that wins the tournament = fair system

We have Mr Righthander bowling on 9 & 10 that both have bad topology sloping to the right gutter playing Mr Lefthander who has no topology issues on his side of the lane...I don't see where this is fair with the righty bowling up hill finding it hard to go through the pins.


Previous 5 matches on 19 & 20 all between right handers.....pair is now totally trashed. Next Match Mr Righthander plays Mr Lefthander. Mr Righthander has to play deep inside with low cover ball that causes loss of carry
Mr Lefthander can still use his super aggressive ball playing down the edge....I don't see how this is fair either.

Topology and conditions will always play a part when right and left are involved in the same match on the same pair, just as above in regards to panel wear as it differs between left and right due to the amount of traffic.

 

[Mistagear]

On average, 80% of population are right handed, so approx 80 % of the time match based would beat totals based. The remaining occasions, part way through a tournament, when right handed meets left handed, depends if the lanes have opened up for the right handed players or been trashed.
So using totals based system, possible to disadvantage players close to 80/100% of the time as conditions change. Using match based, disadvantage would be possible around 20% of time.
In a world of perfect lane topography, the right/left argument would still exist anyhow, therefore I dismiss it as non-changeable no matter what you do.
You can have lanes mapped and altered in an attempt to have oil patterns play the same each time you put them down. Trouble is then you will need to have a fresh condition laid before each lane change, otherwise following bowlers will not have the same condition depending who bowled what, prior to them arriving at that pair. It remains an impossible goal to create equality through lane topography and will likely only succeed in making someone a lot of money.
The alternative is to look at other sports and create playing rules which negate the need in the first place. Only then will it be possible to solve the current problem. IMHO of course

 

[jason_doust]

You sound like the bad report card was a bad thing mate !!! lol Sorry but it needed it, It was really bad

Not at all Geoff. You were on the money and it was a very good thing. It needed it very much. And I'm sure it's not the only one.

 

[Troyza]

You sound like the bad report card was a bad thing mate !!! lol Sorry but it needed it, It was really bad

Still beating the dead horse, I see.

 

[RobbieB]

On average, 80% of population are right handed, so approx 80 % of the time match based would beat totals based. The remaining occasions, part way through a tournament, when right handed meets left handed, depends if the lanes have opened up for the right handed players or been trashed.
So using totals based system, possible to disadvantage players close to 80/100% of the time as conditions change. Using match based, disadvantage would be possible around 20% of time.
In a world of perfect lane topography, the right/left argument would still exist anyhow, therefore I dismiss it as non-changeable no matter what you do.
You can have lanes mapped and altered in an attempt to have oil patterns play the same each time you put them down. Trouble is then you will need to have a fresh condition laid before each lane change, otherwise following bowlers will not have the same condition depending who bowled what, prior to them arriving at that pair. It remains an impossible goal to create equality through lane topography and will likely only succeed in making someone a lot of money.
The alternative is to look at other sports and create playing rules which negate the need in the first place. Only then will it be possible to solve the current problem. IMHO of course

Topology issues don't create inequality issues - they create equity issues. Sure, lane conditions will breal down, and adjusting to those conditions as they break down is part of what makes elite bowlers elite. But it is reasonable to expect each pair to not have issues that are totally unpredictableto the bowler, and could cost them several frames when they move. A lane hooking differently because it is drier or wetter is easily adjusted to idf it's flat. A lane with a lump in it that the bowler does not know about is not.
With regard to match based tournaments - this is possible without using the x-games system now. In any case, topology issues would be MORE important in such a tournament, due to the fewer opportunities to win a match point and the greater penalty that would thus attach to losing a match due to topology influences.

Back to the original post subject - this part scares me a little:

An important factor to note is that topography impacts slower speeds more and lighter weight balls more, Thompson said.
“The longer the ball spends on a slope the more it’s affected by it,” he said. “And lighter balls are affected more than heavier balls because it takes more force to move a heavier object. And different axis rotations are affected differently because of the different force vectors."

Speed, fine, rotation, meh, but ball weight? Gravitational force is proportional to weight - the force acting on all balls is exactly in balance with the ball weight. If lighter balls are indeed affected more, it's not directly due to the weight of the ball. Something to ponder; rg factors and drag in lane oil (slowing the ball down faster) are the first things that come to mind. Rotation makes sense from a gyroscopic inertia pov, since the slope places the centre of mass slightly to the side of the contact point, creating torque, and the precession will depend on the axis of rotation and tilt. Hmmm...