lane conditions and equipment

[tonybaby]

for all you technical people,do you think that it would improve the general standard of bowling if centres changed their typical house condition to something more challenging and varied between long and short oil giving people the opportunity to play on many different conditions?.Also what do people think about the general level of technical knowledge that the average house mechanic has in order to set these conditions?would it present a problem.and lastly do centres have the level of equipment required to be able to do all these things with minimum fuss...and if they don't why should they....
interested to hear peoples thoughts on this


tony

 

[Feral]

Hi Tony.
1. It would improve some bowlers in my opinion. However, it will not work in practice. Centres bowl many leagues one after the other without reconditioning or re-oiling, and social bowlers fill in on spare lanes. An example of how difficult it is to get lanes re-done prior to a league (high quality and expesive, that is) - I and my team were waiting for our league to start. The lanes had been conditioned and oiled. On one of the pair we were to bowl on, mum, dad and 4 kids were bowling with bumpers. We asked the centre to re-do the lane to make even conditions - they wouldn't - we don't bowl there anymore.
2. Most techs could lay any condition with the right equipment.
3. Most centres don't have good equipment.
4. No, it is a huge cost outlay. Besides, many centres with Kegel machines don't clean or maintain them as they should so much so that the lanes are not much different to centres that still use a mop and rag.

Just my observations. (See you in Hobart mate),

Feral

 

[*'TOPHER*]

i think putting down long and short oil paterns all the time would kill bowling. not everyone wants the challenge most want the scores, however i think there is a market for the challenging shots! i know id bowl more if they laid them

 

[willey]

Congratulations Ferel, you have just denigrated every Laneman in the Country. Of course you would not have a clue what most Centres are doing or what equipment they have, so obviously you are just having a bad day and have decided to take everyone down with you. I doubt very much any Centre in the World has ever used a "Mop and Rag" to do the lanes.

To answer Tonybaby's question, nobody tries to make the lanes harder, it is monatary suicide, even back in the 60's 70's and 80's the quality bowlers gravatated towards the higher scoring Centre's. All atempts to get Sport Bowling off the ground has failed.

willey.

 

[Porto]

Monetary suicide for sure. The average bowler doesn't want to have to come bowling at 6.30pm after working 10 hours straight and have to get on the lanes and work their asses off to bowl a 600. The average bowler wants to come in, bowl high scores, and have some fun.

There are people who want more challenging lane conditions but a lot of the time it's too hard to make a committment to a league at a centre that's half an hour away.

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Congratulations Ferel, you have just denigrated every Laneman in the Country. Of course you would not have a clue what most Centres are doing or what equipment they have, so obviously you are just having a bad day and have decided to take everyone down with you. I doubt very much any Centre in the World has ever used a "Mop and Rag" to do the lanes.

To answer Tonybaby's question, nobody tries to make the lanes harder, it is monatary suicide, even back in the 60's 70's and 80's the quality bowlers gravatated towards the higher scoring Centre's. All atempts to get Sport Bowling off the ground has failed.

willey.

You nailed that one, Frank...................there is absolutely no money in laying down a challenging or sporting lane condition, the vast majority of league bowlers would eventually seek out a centre with higher scoring lanes.

The majority of bowling centres both in Australia and the world have advanced lane maintenance equipment, they purchased these exspensive machines for several reasons, one of which is to have the ability to lay down consistently high scoring lane conditons.

Even tournaments that I have worked lay down high scoring lane conditions, if they don't, no one will turn up for the next tournament.

When it comes to league bowlers, it's a simple equation................high scoring lane condition = cash flowlow

Shawn

 

[Easy Tiger]

It's always going to be a touchy topic in its own way..

There are a few, not all, service technicians out there who cannot be bothered tinkering with lane conditions to make them more scoreable, more challenging, fairer, or the like. I've seen it. They have said to me "If it ain't broke don't fix it" (literal words). To them, it's not broken, so they "ain't gonna fix it". Then again, often these people don't bowl on the conditions, but I do, and so do the house's league bowlers.

Well the next thing that happened in that house was most of the leagues left.

As I see it, something like a sports league can work - but only on the basis that there is one and one only in a region, for example, only one in Brisbane. Otherwise you won't attract the numbers to compete.

Trying to get a house to lay down different conditions on a regular basis is basically from experience a no-go. I have on occasion had tournament patterns laid down specifically for me to practice on (usually the more challenging ones that I have struggled on, to improve), but I can't get it on a regular basis, as it's a lot of stuffing around, so I can understand their reservations about doing it.

Willey it may not be quite mop and bucket stuff, but surely you of all people remember the days before machines? It's so easy now.. 20 lanes done in 45 minutes max. It wasn't quite so easy back in the day, was it. Lane conditioning (particularly cleaning) has come a long way.

Because what creates scores? A squeaky clean backend. If you want a good example of what kills scoring, come to Aspley on a Friday night. The league I bowl in has five leagues on its condition plus social before we get to it, and it doesn't get re-conditioned before we go on as 6th league of the day. Most of those leagues are straight bowlers, with plastic balls. Guess where the oil ends up. Guess what that does to consistent ball reaction. Keeping a 200 average on that condition really is a challenge, I'm on about 197. I managed a 967 for 4 on it too, not quite sure how looking back after last night and the last few months.

To directly answer the original question - yes it would improve the general standard of bowling, but it isn't going to happen, because 99% of centres won't do it.

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Tiger, rest assure that not all technicians have the final say on the lane condition that they put down, the lane condition is sometimes determined by the owner of the centre, though not a popular condition with the bowlers is not neccessarily the fault of the lane man.
The amount of leagues prior to you bowling on em is not ads important as the number of games bowled on em, this will determine the carry down on your lanes.

It is ever so easy to lay down differring lane conditions with todays computerised lane maintenance equipement........the machines have adjustable pre programmed lane conditions stored in their on board computer, all it takes is a push of the button.

The problem as I see it lays in the exspense of the lane cleaner and lane oil, both of which are imported from the U.S.
The lane oils and cleaners are not cheap to start with, then of course you have all the middleman involved in getting the product to the bowling centre, and don't forget the exchange rate of the Aussie dollar...................this all adds up to quite a exspensive product.

Centres cannot afford to lay down what amounts to liquid gold on the lanes then clean it up with another form of liquid gold then pour it down the sink every hour of the day or even 4 times a day.........that is, without having the bowlers to return the extravagant cost, I would think any centre would be only too glad to do this if it could be guaranteed of recouping the cost.

Shawn

 

[double_d]

i remember when i was a junior tech
the head tech ( yoohoo, lol ) was responsible for lane conditions he set the shims in the old century machine all i had to do was select single or double run depending on day and time of day then push the button
but as it happens in most bowling centers i ( the tech ) got the blame for crappy conditions and not knowing how to oil lanes

 

[Brunswick Tech]

Daniel, not much has changed....................LOL

The head tech may in a lot of centres set the lane condition, but you even as a junior tech have the responsibility of maintaining the lane maintenance equipement, if this isn't done correctly, then you will get crappy inconsistent lane conditions.

That vey same machine that you speak of is still in use and the owner at this centre does have a major bearing on the lane condition.

Shawn

 

[Easy Tiger]

i remember when i was a junior tech
the head tech ( yoohoo, lol ) was responsible for lane conditions he set the shims in the old century machine all i had to do was select single or double run depending on day and time of day then push the button
but as it happens in most bowling centers i ( the tech ) got the blame for crappy conditions and not knowing how to oil lanes

You and I have something in common there Daniel. I remember it well from when I did it and got the same comments from a select few, when in fact I was taking more care than some others to ensure the condition was correctly laid. I took a fair amount of care when I was servicing that old machine too..

Where I work now, I believe the Kegel has 4 slots for conditioning programs. If you want anymore than that, you have to connect it up to the Kosi program and download it onto the machine, overwriting what is already there. Then there is the house shot which stays on there, so it's reduced to three. There is a good reason why some centres are hesitant to put down alternate patterns apart from cost and mucking around, and that is:

Previously, a couple of techs in a couple of centres have been accused of setting up lane conditions in league for themselves, only for their specific league. As far as I know, this has only happened on one occasion around these parts, he has been gone for a long time. That said, some bowlers still like to wrongly accuse other innocent techs. That said, changing the pattern has become a sore topic indeed!

And Shawn, you are correct about owner involvement, specifically in private centres. Often they have the final say in what is put down.

 

[Tiger]

i think putting down long and short oil paterns all the time would kill bowling. not everyone wants the challenge most want the scores, however i think there is a market for the challenging shots! i know id bowl more if they laid them

That's pretty true, and the trouble is Chris, there's not enough of us that would want to play on a tough shot to challenge ourselves.
Remember the shot that the house had early in the year?
Scores plummeted BIGTIME and not enough people wanted it kept.
There were no free strikes on that condition, some bowlers dropped 40 & 50 pins in average on it - I wanted to see it in every tournament here
I'd rather average in the 190's and win on a tough shot than average 210+ and finished 6th or something in some sh*tty carry contest.

 

[*'TOPHER*]

I think thats where your wrong matty.

I rekon we have enough people to sustain a small sports league. The way that management just introduced it onto an existing league with a large basis of a friendly or once a week bowlers was ridiculous. Its no wonder people left and teams folded. Someone needs to take names of those that are interested and try to get this idea off teh ground.

At the start of the season i lost a good 40pins on my already lacking average lol but i too would rather shoot low scores on a hard pattern and know that i will be be better from it.

 

[Tiger]

I think thats where your wrong matty.
I rekon we have enough people to sustain a small sports league.

I think a singles league would be a great idea if they were to revisit the idea of something like that.
They did hatch a plan a few years back of doing this, but it never got off the ground - lack of numbers - and not only that, but management at the time decreed that they did not want bowlers pulling out of already existing leagues to join this league.
With the cost of leagues here now, it's getting more & more rare to see bowlers bowling in more than two leagues a week.
So it'd only work if they didn't enforce the above rule.

The way that management just introduced it onto an existing league with a large basis of a friendly or once a week bowlers was ridiculous.

There were two school's of thought on it, one was that it was a mistake, in that the machine had been messed with, and that it was fixed up when the head-tech came back from holidays, and the other was that it was designed to lower scores across the house.
Perhaps wasn't the best thing to do to the predominantly once-a-weeker's who were battling to shoot 130's on it, my team lost a bowler over it.
What it did do though is showed who could play the game on tough conditions.
I always thought it should've been made as the tournament condition at Moonah as it really made you think about every single shot you made.
You had to repeat your shots, you had to be very precise with your speed, your angles and above all, you had to be very accurate.
Wasn't a condition where pulling out 4 and 5 balls would cure the problem.
The number of 200's a night in Centre League dropped from an average of around 48 per night, to about 6 a night.

Its no wonder people left and teams folded. Someone needs to take names of those that are interested and try to get this idea off teh ground.
At the start of the season i lost a good 40pins on my already lacking average lol but i too would rather shoot low scores on a hard pattern and know that i will be be better from it.

I know what ya mean!! I think my first set on it was a big 472.
It was a big kick in the arse and made me as keen as I'd been in years to bowl.
It felt really good to have got to 200 on it. I just would've liked to have played on it for longer to see how I would've handled it in the longer-term.
I certainly felt more confidant that I could go out and win a tournament again than I do now.
And while I personally liked it, I can understand from a centre's perspective why they changed it because there were a lot who didn't and were going to pull the pin.

 

[willey]

Yes Easy Tiger, I do remember the old days of oiling by hand, spray it on with a Garden Bug Sprayer than later Buff it in with a rotary floor buffer, I could actually oil the lanes faster than all the Century machines up to the Silver Bullit's, than they are too fast, but boy was it hard work.

The most important point you brought up was the lane cleaning, it was almost non existant up to the late 70's, this is what caused the low scoring conditions that everyone brings up when they talk about the" Old Days". Little did they realise that the lanes were always dirty and oily down the Back-End, as the lanes were only washed once a week at the most.

The 60's and 70's were tough scoring times, the lanes were better when not oiled at all, we never got to try the Shellack years like in the States, they had people averaging 230 plus in the 50's.

willey.

 

[androooo]

Tiger and Chris...

It is true. I tried to get a Sports condition league going a few years ago, however staff refused to put down different oil patterns for it each week. Said it took too much time to program the machine, cost too much money to run the machine for just a few lanes, and that the time I wanted to hold it, would eat into their "money making" open play.


What happened earlier this year was simple. It wasn't that someone messed with the machine, or that they wanted lower scores, it was that we had changed oil, lane cleaner and changed the wicks in the machine. Anyone that knows the workings of an AMF Summit, would know that the original configuration of the wicks consisted of 2 different types. 1 set of wicks for the outside parts of the lanes which were "slow flowing" and a "fast flowing" set for between boards 10-10. This makes the machine great for blocking lanes and typical league patterns, but made it rather difficult to put out a flat pattern.

Early this year when the new wicks were put in place, they were a consistant flow speed across the lane. We tried using the same patterns as we had used previously, and needless to say, it was ugly. There was so much oil on the outside it felt like a reverse block. Due to the fact that we didn't have a Lane Reader at the time (was at another centre), it made it rather difficult to see what was going on. We kept shortening the pattern, thinking that was the problem... Nope. All that did was make people play further outside, into a place where, as the bowlers at Moonah would know, usually isn't a good place due to the lack of cleaning our Summit does. It made a lot of people "one dimensional"... throw it hard, no hand, up the middle. I can remember goping in for 6 hours, throwing the ball every way I know how, with many different balls. The result? I walked away even more confused... lol

To me, the perfect league pattern should be able to be played from anywhere. When the condition has been laid down properly, you ca play it from multiple angles. I have proved you can play the swing shot. I have played down the twig with success. Others have found you can play down 10, others 5 board, still others playing 15 out to 10. Lefties (as much as I dislike them ) have shown there is a shot. To me, that is a fair pattern.

Maybe we can entertain the thoughts of a Sports league again. But i won't hold my breath. Maybe when we get a Kegel, we can use it to it's full potential.