Kicking Ball Returns

[Jase]

As the title says…

Most of us have been guilty of it at some stage in time myself included…Some bowlers are getting a name for themselves as serial Ball Return Kickers…

I think perhaps it’s time we looked at this a little more seriously…

I have bowled in a few events this year and noticed it’s becoming a regular occurrence…Everyone gets frustrated and most times it’s the stress from the weeks leading up to the event and not so much the spare they just missed or the split they received that has caused the anger venting habit…

Centre Owners and or Managers are getting to the stages where they won’t tolerate it anymore, some I have heard say that why should I hold a tournament and have my centre cop abuse when I can have social players do the same for more money per game to cover the costs… and I must say, I can’t blame them either… I am sure once that one of the centre Managers and or Owners threaten the bowlers with covering the costs of what they have just damaged; it will make a few open up their eyes at what they are doing…

I think we should all take a step back and think about the damage it can cause, not just to the centre but to the sport as well…It’s ok to show some emotion but not at someone else’s expense…Let’s have some respect for their property and the fact that they are sharing it with us while we are there…

Last thing the game need is, Tournament directors begging centres to hold their events…

Any thoughts?

 

[xballs]

That will teach that ball return for looking at me twice - I told it the first time & it just didn't listen. :kicking:

I could say I have never done this - but that would be a big lie. Only in league - never in a tournament.

To this day I have never understood why bowling centre owners don't put punching bags in - I am shore these will be well used.

 

[JWhitty]

Have to agree.

I'm not a kicker of the ball return, I play football and I don't see that kicking fairly solid objects is helpful, but I've seen plenty who do.

When I'm officiating over an event I don't tolerate it, if I can identify the kicker (sometimes they're at the other end of the centre and I only have suspicions...) I will almost always say something.

At an event I ran recently, one particular bowler booted the return. I like this guy, he's a good bowler and a nice bloke, and will probably be the first to name himself here, but I said to him something like "I'm not sure what the ball return did, and I didn't see what your shot was about, but I'm sure the ball return wasn't to blame". He stepped away to bowl, and I walked off on my way, but as I came back past him he stopped me and said "Jeff, you're perfectly right, that was uncalled for and I apologise". The point of the little story here is that many people do it and it's not necessarily "with intent to wound", but I believe it's worth a talking to.

I'd also like to expand peoples thinking, where does this become acceptable? I see people slap the approach, punch/hit/kick the wall on the end pair, slap/kick the chairs in the players area, and the benches in front of the public areas... In my opinion, I am inclined to have a word in any of these circumstances, and for all but the approach slap I might consider that first warning. For the approach slap, I'd let it go with a quiet word the first time, then a 'first warning' for a persistent offender so to speak...

Maybe we should get harder on this, an amendment to the code of conduct that says any violent offence warrants an immediate yellow card (or red, if severe enough or the yellow is already issued)?

As a football referee, violent conduct is penalised with an automatic red - if you take a swing with foot or fist at anybody - not just your opponent - you're gone. Take Vukovic from the final, suspended for up to 15 months for fairly minor contact on the referee

So after all that rambling, let's be tough and send a clear (no longer acceptable) message!

 

[rpac23]

It is a common occurance. I see it alot during the League of Nations at Manhattan Superbowl @ Mascot. The league's president has enforced a rule to remove 1 point per offence. I think that worked... for now.
I myself don't usually kick things, but i do brush a foot or leg past a chair every so often. So Jeff, you wouldn't hear me, but you could see me

 

[bowlrig]

I agree with Jeff, there needs to be a tougher line taken. In saying that though, other offences such as ball lofting also need to be looked at.
Why should a bowler damage my property for something that in essence was their own fault.
These problems start with our elite bowlers and filters all the way down to the league bowlers.

I like to see a bit of attitude from tournament bowlers but please respect the property of others.

Rob

 

[GeorgeF]

I look at it this way, kick ball returns all you want, your probably going to hurt yourself more than the ball return your kicking. Showing some emotion is great, the whole bowling centre then knows your bowling bad


HOWEVER, the onus does come back onto the bowler, you break it, you pay for it! Maybe a small disclaimer can be signed prior to the participation of tournaments legally binding them to any damage they might cause. Maybe this alone would make bowlers think twice about kicking or damaging anything in a bowl.

 

[safadao]

why don't these 'kickers' go outside and kick in their car doors?

Answer: because it is theirs.

Be respectful, it can't be that hard.

 

[jason_doust]

Guilty as charged - especially in my angry young years. But I can honestly say I have never damaged one beyond a scuff which rubbed off.

I like seeing players getting animated. Watching robots is dead boring. Kicking a ball return is no good, but usually harmless. Once stuff gets broken though, even I reckon the line has been crossed. You have got to seriously lose control to do that.

Ball lofting is an interesting one though. So many houses put almost no oil outside 10 because people expect built in bounce (a.k.a. lane blocking/cheating) in the lane condition, so power players are forced in early and then just have to head west to stay competitive. I can honestly say I've been to houses where lofting the ball was the only way to get a good reaction. Robert Smith recently won the Windy City Classic lofting the 6th arrow and Belmo won the Brunswick Cup lofting the capping beyond what would ordinarily be considered "normal". If there's not enough oil to the right to permit a smooth strong delivery, when does "projection" become "loft" and when does "loft" become "wrong"?

Tough one...

 

[eraser20]

why don't these 'kickers' go outside and kick in their car doors?

Answer: because it is theirs.

Be respectful, it can't be that hard.

Couldn't agree more.

Also it's a bad message to give some of our younger and more impressionable bowlers who idolise some of these "better" bowlers.

Noelene

 

[jockey]

I can't recall ever having the pleasure or lack of it of kicking a ball return.

That said I too think that tournament directors are far too soft on this blight on the game. Without naming them there are a few current Aus reps who are serial offenders. Great bowlers or not I think this should make them ineligible from representing our country as they are supposed to be the example for bowlers to follow.

I think we need to clamp down hard on this as these people should know better. It's a pity none of the tournament directors where I have seen these offences take place have had the balls to throw these serial offenders out.

If I was a tournament director I would make the briefing the first and final warning. Any one kicking a return would be asked to leave the lanes immediately. I'm pretty sure that the problem would disappear very quickly.

 

[mannah]

We did have an incident in league a few years ago now where a habitual lofter (big guy, heavy ball bouncing on the arrows). Had been warned several times previously about bowling not tossing the ball. Eventually got very frustrated one night and really lofted the ball landing actually past the arrows and broke 2 boards on the lanes. The bowl made him pay for the replacement of the boards. He got the message after that the his bowling actually improved once he stopped lofting so much. Still very much a power bowler but at least he was actually bowling the ball then. Got the message across not only to him but some others in the league who were also starting to copy him.

 

[rpac23]

What about the good old towel whippers? Damn whipping the towel on a seat makes a loud bang!

 

[Deadman Inc]

When it comes to tournaments, i like the idea of bowlers being stripped of pin count for equipment abuse. If a bowler decides to kick the ball return, they should be stripped of 10 pins, and as we know, 10 pins can be very costly in our game

 

[tenpinyo]

What about the good old towel whippers? Damn whipping the towel on a seat makes a loud bang!

not referring to anyone in particular are u mr palma?

 

[Carmers]

I kind of agree that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with. I think the trouble is that bowlers have been allowed to get away with it for so long. If bowlers were given warnings etc as they shoul dhave then it may not be such an issue.

I know personally, last time I got to that point of frustration, I was seen by the tournament director who came over and had a word promptly. Needless to say, I didnt do it again.

To me, you receive a warning, then yellow, then red.

Just my opinion. Lol.

 

[bowlrig]

Ball lofting is an interesting one though. So many houses put almost no oil outside 10 because people expect built in bounce (a.k.a. lane blocking/cheating) in the lane condition, so power players are forced in early and then just have to head west to stay competitive. I can honestly say I've been to houses where lofting the ball was the only way to get a good reaction. Robert Smith recently won the Windy City Classic lofting the 6th arrow and Belmo won the Brunswick Cup lofting the capping beyond what would ordinarily be considered "normal". If there's not enough oil to the right to permit a smooth strong delivery, when does "projection" become "loft" and when does "loft" become "wrong"?
Tough one...

I am talking about the bowler that executes a bad shot then decides to launch the ball 20' or more down the lane. Not good for the pines and can leave
a nice mark if it lands on the edge of a synthetic. But who cares they paid to bowl so they have the right to, NOT.

Rob

 

[walc]

It's a bit of the old... 'bad tradesman blames his tools...' In this case it's not even 'his' tools!! If you are annoyed at the shot you just had, don't do it again...

Who threw the damn thing?? The ball return?? Nah, I didn't think so either!!

 

[Bec__x.]

i agree,
although im not completly innocent.. i have kicked the ball return a couple of times.. but never in a tournament.

I honestly dont think there is any need to kick the ball return or walk past and hit the chairs in the players area.
i mean, seriously, its no one elses fault except yours that you threw a crappy shot or missed an easy spare. just let it go.. because there is always next frame..


thats just my thoughts.

cheers,

 

[rpac23]

not referring to anyone in particular are u mr palma?

Not really... Why? Are you guilty?

 

[Shadows Fall]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.

Just imagine if a Bowling centre manager or proprietor is having a bad night/day, and to release their frustration they go outside and kick your car. I bet you wouldn't sit back and tolerate that.

Yet some bowlers expect to kick the bejesus out of ball returns, chairs, walls and anything else that looks at them the wrong way, and bowl staff are expected to "turn a blind eye".

Some people need to get a grip on reality, and realise what a bufoon they look like.

Besides the fact that "wilfully" damaging property is a criminal offence. And before the cornflake box lawyers get on and say that they had no intent to damage anything, there is a section in the law that talks about "probable consequences" of ones actions (i.e it is a probable consequence that kicking/punching or otherwise striking of a ball return or other equipment will result in damage being incurred.

I can talk with authority on this as 1) my parents own a bowl and I regularly see people of all talent levels kicking ball returns and punching walls, and

2) I have been guilty in the past of abusing equipment. And I now totally realise how stupid I must have looked.

As a famous man once said "you can kick the ball return into the cafe', but it isn't going to change anything"

At the end of the day it is only a game, and in today's environment of wars, diseases, death and poverty - getting bent out of shape over missing an easy spare or not getting a strike really is silly.


Just my two cents worth

Cheers

Steve