Just throwing it out there.....
- Thread starter emmtee83
- Start date
strop
Elite Athlete
Been through so much of this in the past..............having tournaments is one thing, getting people to bowl is another. As they say you can bring the horse to the water but you can't make him drink it..........
And Matt, you talk about real conditions...........a good all rounder bowler should be able to cope with any condition....right?
You talk about having all these fancy conditions laid down, but really it's only going to help a few if that, and the majority I think won't care.
Good luck guys, hope you can bring the numbers back into bowling........because at the moment I see no future.......
cheers
Tony
And Matt, you talk about real conditions...........a good all rounder bowler should be able to cope with any condition....right?
You talk about having all these fancy conditions laid down, but really it's only going to help a few if that, and the majority I think won't care.
Good luck guys, hope you can bring the numbers back into bowling........because at the moment I see no future.......
cheers
Tony
Tony
If you put down sports patterns then you get the bowlers that want to push themselves and excel in the sport. This is what Matt is getting at, it does get a tad boring closing your eyes at the foul line chucking the ball right, oh I missed my target by 10 boards thats okay its hooking back, WOW a strike gawd that was great!! What does that do for the sport??? Anyway another thread another time!!! Just pointing out Matt was talking about conditions that make bowlers use their skill, not allowing them to score because they don't have to hit a target!!!
Dion
If you put down sports patterns then you get the bowlers that want to push themselves and excel in the sport. This is what Matt is getting at, it does get a tad boring closing your eyes at the foul line chucking the ball right, oh I missed my target by 10 boards thats okay its hooking back, WOW a strike gawd that was great!! What does that do for the sport??? Anyway another thread another time!!! Just pointing out Matt was talking about conditions that make bowlers use their skill, not allowing them to score because they don't have to hit a target!!!
Dion
strop
Elite Athlete
As I said before in my post it will only affect or help a few.
That's fine.........
You talk about making bowlers use there skill, then take away the new, you beaut , reactive bowling balls they have today. Where is the skill in that !!!!!!
No matter how much oil or patterns you put down, they will bring out a ball to make some one else look good that will suit that condition.
You want to see skill start bowling with some of the old non re actives.......
Cheers
Tony
That's fine.........
You talk about making bowlers use there skill, then take away the new, you beaut , reactive bowling balls they have today. Where is the skill in that !!!!!!
No matter how much oil or patterns you put down, they will bring out a ball to make some one else look good that will suit that condition.
You want to see skill start bowling with some of the old non re actives.......
Cheers
Tony
Tony, bring back the rubber balls, im all for it. Or for that matter lets just use plastic balls, and we'll see who wins then. (thats not a sarcastic comment by the way, i am serious) Im not the one who makes these balls that hook at the arrows, i only use them. My point is, as dion said, a harder condition makes the better bowler win. Im not talking about oil how much or how less, its more of how much area is on the lane to hit.
Lets take SPC for example because you werent there, it was tough. Yes there was plenty of oil, but you had a board maybe 2 boards to hit. The outcome? The best bowler won, the most accurate. This is what I am getting at. I am sick of carry contests, it achieves nothing.
Quote Tony:
Matt
Lets take SPC for example because you werent there, it was tough. Yes there was plenty of oil, but you had a board maybe 2 boards to hit. The outcome? The best bowler won, the most accurate. This is what I am getting at. I am sick of carry contests, it achieves nothing.
Quote Tony:
If you are having a shot at me, i think you have seen me bowl enough tournaments now to realise that i can cope with any condition. Several times now i have played the edge to run 1st and a top 3, and played inside 25 to also run top 3. So regarding your comment, 'IF' it was aimed at me, you should think again, if not i apologise but its ones first reaction to defend themselves.
Matt
Slow down tiger. General feedback from the NSW Sport Series has told me that all these 'people who probably won't care' absolutely love the challenge. It helps get them that desire to practise again. As long as you tell them before that it's going to be tough, which a title of 'Sport Series' will do for anyone on totalbowling, and quick explanation for anyone who isn't they are more then happy to compete. Especially for the cheap entry fee that these events can provide!
Later Da Cowman!
Later Da Cowman!
strop
Elite Athlete
No-ones having a go at you Matt.
I made a statement to all, that a good bowler should be able to cope with all conditions and the ability to adapt. Some don't know how and by then it's too late.
The conditions you want may be good for the few that are interested but for the majority it won't.
As far as the SPC , Not necessarily the best one won, maybe just the one that can cope with the condition on the day, yes plenty of oil, would the same bowler had won if the condition was dryer, ?????? , who knows.
Lets get back to my point in this, Tournament Bowling in this state is dead. You want depth in bowling for it to succeed.
People or bowlers unfortunately come out to yes better themselves, but also to enjoy themselves. The harder the condition I cant see that happening. Although you do need it for the few that want the more oiler condition to keep them interested, and who knows if they shoot the big shot them so be it, that's all they can bowl on. And lets face Matt all I hear about at Cross Roads is how dry it is?? Well isn't it.
cheers
Tony
I made a statement to all, that a good bowler should be able to cope with all conditions and the ability to adapt. Some don't know how and by then it's too late.
The conditions you want may be good for the few that are interested but for the majority it won't.
As far as the SPC , Not necessarily the best one won, maybe just the one that can cope with the condition on the day, yes plenty of oil, would the same bowler had won if the condition was dryer, ?????? , who knows.
Lets get back to my point in this, Tournament Bowling in this state is dead. You want depth in bowling for it to succeed.
People or bowlers unfortunately come out to yes better themselves, but also to enjoy themselves. The harder the condition I cant see that happening. Although you do need it for the few that want the more oiler condition to keep them interested, and who knows if they shoot the big shot them so be it, that's all they can bowl on. And lets face Matt all I hear about at Cross Roads is how dry it is?? Well isn't it.
cheers
Tony
No worries tony, i wasnt sure if you were aiming at me thats why i said sorry if you werent!
In all seriousness, its a really hard call. Unfortunately, my personal opinion is i dont think a sports series will happen here in SA, theres just not enough tournament bowlers, and i think from a cost point of view in this day and age, a lot of people dont want to sacrifice their money for 'experience' like we used to back in the day.
Unfortunately i dont have the answers, so where to from here? i dont know.
Matt
In all seriousness, its a really hard call. Unfortunately, my personal opinion is i dont think a sports series will happen here in SA, theres just not enough tournament bowlers, and i think from a cost point of view in this day and age, a lot of people dont want to sacrifice their money for 'experience' like we used to back in the day.
Unfortunately i dont have the answers, so where to from here? i dont know.
Matt
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
If WA can get a Sport Series up and running then what (or who) is stopping us? For whatever you might think of Michael Tran and his attempts to get a circuit up and running, at least someone is making an attempt.
Fair dinkum, the defeatism around here is endemic. SA (thanks to Tony and Free To Air Satellite Services) that is getting bowling back on TV on a near national basis. Its only in its infancy, but with the right support, anything could come of it, but not if the current mood of defeatism continues. A Sport Series would not be beneficial to our future players, even some of the current ones would also benefit.
THe problem, as I see it, is the current crop have had it too easy for too long and are resistant to any suggestion that maybe the sport was meant to be a challenge. The number of dummy spits I witnessed during the SPC is typical of the attitude that pervades the tournament environment.
Maybe if people KNOW its going to be super tough, they will be more mentally prepared for the challenges ahead, but that is only speculation and won't be known until someone bites the bullet and actually gets something happening. It may well be that it has to start at the Youth circuit level so the new crop of tournament bowlers are EDUCATED in the challenges of Sport Bowling.
Far be it from me to actually force our current "elite" to actually have to be accurate........
Fair dinkum, the defeatism around here is endemic. SA (thanks to Tony and Free To Air Satellite Services) that is getting bowling back on TV on a near national basis. Its only in its infancy, but with the right support, anything could come of it, but not if the current mood of defeatism continues. A Sport Series would not be beneficial to our future players, even some of the current ones would also benefit.
THe problem, as I see it, is the current crop have had it too easy for too long and are resistant to any suggestion that maybe the sport was meant to be a challenge. The number of dummy spits I witnessed during the SPC is typical of the attitude that pervades the tournament environment.
Maybe if people KNOW its going to be super tough, they will be more mentally prepared for the challenges ahead, but that is only speculation and won't be known until someone bites the bullet and actually gets something happening. It may well be that it has to start at the Youth circuit level so the new crop of tournament bowlers are EDUCATED in the challenges of Sport Bowling.
Far be it from me to actually force our current "elite" to actually have to be accurate........
tonx
New Member
Cow nailed it here.
Also, if you want more tournament bowlers, you have to hit up leagues for 180 average bowlers, then offer them something that is good value with a chance to win a little spare cash. You then have to coach them for free, offer to help them with their ball surface for free, and then after the event, try to get them to put the time in to practise... once you do all that, you will start to get new bowlers into events....
cruzer
Member
The small amount of bowlers putting their hands up and saying that they will bowl in a "Sport Series" is a reflection of the amount of bowlers that are interested.
I think that a actual poll should be set up to try and guage if there is any interest in holding a "Sport Series" here in S.A.
By the way I am 100% behind a "Sport Series",with applaudes to anybody willing to set one up.
Cheers
Paul K.
I think that a actual poll should be set up to try and guage if there is any interest in holding a "Sport Series" here in S.A.
By the way I am 100% behind a "Sport Series",with applaudes to anybody willing to set one up.
Cheers
Paul K.
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
Tony, trust me, if they had been dryer, Paeng would have absolutely crushed it. What he did was play the percentages, ie just make sure he hit the pocket and leave easy spares. Something the majority (myself included) need to to re-learn.
strop
Elite Athlete
Perhaps so brenton, Paeng is good.
Good luck in finding the bowlers to bowl in what ever is started up, you will see the same old faces out there that have been there for many years.........Have you seen the new ones as yet to come out in there droves. Do we see them coming up in their ranks.
How many times of late have we seen tournaments try to start up with only a few bowlers going to support them (same old ones for that matter).
Now those tournaments may now have gone again.
A new sport series will appear, and yes what......same old faces yet again......is this going to bring out the 1000's just sitting there waiting for this to happen to put there hands up to bowl.
Don't get me wrong I also think any tournament trying to get off the ground is good!! , no matter what type.........
I just don't think we have the numbers that will support, but I suppose you have to try.
Good luck
Cheers
Tony
Good luck in finding the bowlers to bowl in what ever is started up, you will see the same old faces out there that have been there for many years.........Have you seen the new ones as yet to come out in there droves. Do we see them coming up in their ranks.
How many times of late have we seen tournaments try to start up with only a few bowlers going to support them (same old ones for that matter).
Now those tournaments may now have gone again.
A new sport series will appear, and yes what......same old faces yet again......is this going to bring out the 1000's just sitting there waiting for this to happen to put there hands up to bowl.
Don't get me wrong I also think any tournament trying to get off the ground is good!! , no matter what type.........
I just don't think we have the numbers that will support, but I suppose you have to try.
Good luck
Cheers
Tony
When there is a will there is a way!
If there is a need, people will bowl!!
I sense will and need!!!
Tony you are forever bagging my generation for what we are bowling in, but maybe you should be looking elsewhere?? These younger bowlers have their own circuit to bowl in which is in its 3rd year of running successfully. Membership base now exceeds 40 and we are pushing 30 entrants an event. These bowlers are getting out there and having a go. Furthermore the circuit has always had input from bowlers, with representatives on the committee, and this year has been organised almost solely by one of the bowlers. If the Juniors and Youth can do it why cant the Adults?? And why are there endless postings on here saying there are no tournaments for Adults to bowl in?? Maybe its time to follow the example set by the SAJYC; shut up, organise something and get bowling back to where it should be in this state!!! Michael and I have had discussions about getting a Sports Series started in SA and I offered him a bit of advice and things that I had picked up from organising the SAJYC, but sadly while all this bickering continues he (and Chinner) are still the only two to approach me about anything. I have said I will not run an Adult Circuit but I would be more than happy to help out anyone who wants to start one, yet we still have this post?????? I think Michael will be able to get this off the ground, maybe it will shut a few people up!!!
Dion
If there is a need, people will bowl!!
I sense will and need!!!
Tony you are forever bagging my generation for what we are bowling in, but maybe you should be looking elsewhere?? These younger bowlers have their own circuit to bowl in which is in its 3rd year of running successfully. Membership base now exceeds 40 and we are pushing 30 entrants an event. These bowlers are getting out there and having a go. Furthermore the circuit has always had input from bowlers, with representatives on the committee, and this year has been organised almost solely by one of the bowlers. If the Juniors and Youth can do it why cant the Adults?? And why are there endless postings on here saying there are no tournaments for Adults to bowl in?? Maybe its time to follow the example set by the SAJYC; shut up, organise something and get bowling back to where it should be in this state!!! Michael and I have had discussions about getting a Sports Series started in SA and I offered him a bit of advice and things that I had picked up from organising the SAJYC, but sadly while all this bickering continues he (and Chinner) are still the only two to approach me about anything. I have said I will not run an Adult Circuit but I would be more than happy to help out anyone who wants to start one, yet we still have this post?????? I think Michael will be able to get this off the ground, maybe it will shut a few people up!!!
Dion
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
strop
Elite Athlete
No problems Dion,
You quoted,
There are people still out there that know how to organise and run major tournament organisations.
It's ashame some of you weren't around to see when bowling was at it's best supported.
I remember when You started I did offer a constitution and bowler or the year points and bits and pieces only to find no interest from you and others. So be it.
I see you have your 40 odd bowlers bowling this with a endless supply of other up and coming juniors to draw upon. Well haven't you?
Like I said lets look at the support for Salisbury classic, barossa cup and both the Elizabeth tournaments. Fantastic wasn't it!!! For the ones that didn't bowl you all can sit back and make your excuses why you didn't bowl, really not interested.
Please all prove me wrong with this, I seen the good times and now the not so good times, call me negative or whatever.
You and brenton stay positive and keep your head in the clouds on this.
Me,I'll keep my feet on the ground and stick with reality.
So many things have killed this game, just to mention a couple, Cost......Equipment........
As I say I wish you the best in whatever will be started......I will always admit if I'm wrong and for all sake I hope I am.
Also good luck in Rachuig.........another tournament now not worth winning because of it demise.
Cheers
Tony
You quoted,
Unfortunately the SAJYC is only a little version of the ATBA of SA of yester year
There are people still out there that know how to organise and run major tournament organisations.
It's ashame some of you weren't around to see when bowling was at it's best supported.
I remember when You started I did offer a constitution and bowler or the year points and bits and pieces only to find no interest from you and others. So be it.
I see you have your 40 odd bowlers bowling this with a endless supply of other up and coming juniors to draw upon. Well haven't you?
Like I said lets look at the support for Salisbury classic, barossa cup and both the Elizabeth tournaments. Fantastic wasn't it!!! For the ones that didn't bowl you all can sit back and make your excuses why you didn't bowl, really not interested.
Please all prove me wrong with this, I seen the good times and now the not so good times, call me negative or whatever.
You and brenton stay positive and keep your head in the clouds on this.
Me,I'll keep my feet on the ground and stick with reality.
So many things have killed this game, just to mention a couple, Cost......Equipment........
As I say I wish you the best in whatever will be started......I will always admit if I'm wrong and for all sake I hope I am.
Also good luck in Rachuig.........another tournament now not worth winning because of it demise.
Cheers
Tony
Matt ,
Don’t knock it till you guys try it…Qld run a Sport Series on as low as 25-35 bowlers…It’s a low Cost thing and all done in one Day…Gees we have run them with 21 before…Its open to all age groups…This crap of segregating ages is not on…On these patterns we are all equal unless your Carl Bottomley of course…
$75.00 Entry
8Games Qualifying…Top 15 3 man Match Play after the re-oil and Lunch period…
You don’t win a hell of a lot BUT EVERYONE in the 15 get some coin back…It’s a great day on challenging conditions both Long or Short…Thin or thick volumes…There is a core group who look forward to the 5-6 events throughout the year…
Give me a Reason why you guys don’t think it can work…If you Dion have 30 odd bowlers from that surely you could get 10 interested…Then another 10 or 15 and you have a small Sport Series…We are not talking about bowling for BIG Money…Its an event throughout the year to help you learn and also help cover the some costs along the Way…It’s also not that hard to pick up a SMALL sponsor for the circuit to have a points section attached to it…
I cannot see how you cannot make this work…
