Is winning all that matters?

[John_Velo]

Hey Stephen,

Always take it as a compliment. I feel very lucky to bowl against the guys in the Friday league. Some from dad's era and a bunch of young guys that can throw a shot good enough to strike on two lane at the same time.

Seeing people’s minds at work is a lot of fun for me.

With bowling Stephen you can compete for many more decades to come, so it will not be fun for a while yet.

 

[twenban]

My point of view is that you bowl in competitions to compete, if you just want to bowl well then you don't need to enter events. Now having said that I believe the really good players do both, they are there to win and also to make great shots especially under pressure beacuse they have a belief in themselves if they make great shots they will win. You need to be aware of your game as well as the score if your to win consistently, somethimes you win because you make great shots and occassionally you win by pure luck. It's whether you know the difference that gives you the satisfaction you are looking for.
I have won by both many times but also have lost with an unlucky shot so it all evens itself out, it's just like life itself the best you will get is maybe be just ahead but it's what you know you have done that matters. People that win at any cost aren't champions and it will catch up to them in the end, it shows a lack of real character.
Great post ...

 

[WAC4504]

Personally, I put moor value on a good game than a win. The way I look at it is, the better you bowl, the moor you will win.

 

[phaggy]

For me, it does depend on what I am doing. I strive to be the best I can be and I know that if I can be at my best than I will be able to beat or compete with some of the best of them. Although, as George said, winning is what everything is measured by and no one ever remembers the losers in the long run. In any competition, be it bowling, golf with friends or family, any sport or even work, winning is what pushes you to go to the next level. You can throw it bad and win, or you can throw it good and lose sometimes, I know which I would rather when it boils down to it. Winning is a feeling that not many things can top in life.

 

[John_Velo]

Hi Phillip,

Good to see another second generation bowler, well in your case a third. Your dad had a very competitive spirit as a junior. Your grandfather all ways use to say do it right and the rest would fall into place.

Image if we could have it both ways.

Say HI to the family for me.

 

[Ubby]

To me, if you got into a competitive arena, you go to win.
Winning and losing are both habits. I know which habit I would rather have.
All this stuff about 'its not about winning or losing, its how you play the game' - this is a lie created by losers. Ive never known anyone to win and say something even close to that.
You can, by all means, be humble about winnng. The point is though, youre still a winner and reaping the rewards of winning.

 

[John_Velo]

Hi Ubby,

I think this goes both ways. So a question, are you humble in defeat, because it is not possible to win all of the time.

In league, if the person I am playing strikes I cheer for them, if they beat me I celebrate their win with them.

If in return they are not humble in winning or losing, then they are just bad sports.

I guess for me, there are Champions of any sport. The prolific winners will be remembered in the history books, the true champions will be remember in the hearts and mind of their followers.

I know a little deep, I hope you understand where I am coming from.

Example, John McEnroe was an unbelievable tennis player, do you remember his records or tantrums.
Ken Rosewall, do you remember his record or his sportsmanship and for the graceful champion he was

 

[Roysa]

Interesting point again there John.... i was having a discussion with a fellow bowler yesterday about our sport in general.

I brought up a point that is one of a very few sports where I or anyone else dont have any direct way to impact the outcome of my opponents results.

By that i mean, in footy i can tackle you and stop you, in tennis i can serve better so you cant reach it and in basketball i can block your shots.

Essentially my thoughts are that alot of the bad sportsmanship shown by people in all sports comes from losing a 'battle' within the game, ie missing a tackle and being heckled for it by the oponent or celebrating a big point in tennis and getting 'in the face' of the guy on the other side of the net.

In bowling you can beat your self more often than your opponent beating you. And there is nothing you can do about it.

FYI in case you are wondering, some of the other sports we thought of... Darts...Golf... feel free to add others.

 

[bowlrig]

Interesting point again there John.... i was having a discussion with a fellow bowler yesterday about our sport in general.

I brought up a point that is one of a very few sports where I or anyone else dont have any direct way to impact the outcome of my opponents results.

By that i mean, in footy i can tackle you and stop you, in tennis i can serve better so you cant reach it and in basketball i can block your shots.

Essentially my thoughts are that alot of the bad sportsmanship shown by people in all sports comes from losing a 'battle' within the game, ie missing a tackle and being heckled for it by the oponent or celebrating a big point in tennis and getting 'in the face' of the guy on the other side of the net.

In bowling you can beat your self more often than your opponent beating you. And there is nothing you can do about it.

FYI in case you are wondering, some of the other sports we thought of... Darts...Golf... feel free to add others.

What about beating them mentally.......bowlings form of the tackle???


Rob

 

[Roysa]

Hi Rob,

thats what i meant by having no "direct way to impact", sure i can trash talk them (and be known as a complete d!ck in bowling community) but i cant physically stop them in anyway from making a good shot. I cant stand on the approach and block them, i cant block the pins i have zero ability to stop them if they are on a roll (no pun intended). That seperates our sport from nearly all others.

So in summary, i bowl to win, if i lose its cos i didnt execute good enough shots to score better than my opponent, am i mad? Probably, but only at myself as there is nothing i could have done to stop him from throwing good shots.

Additon.... interesting point at the bottom of your signature Rob... very fitting.

 

[jimcross]

A long, long, long time ago, it was common practice, in many comps or tournaments, to be allowed 2 frames practice before starting.
I used to try, and almost always succeed to bowl the first ball and pick off the 10pin, bowl the 2nd and pick off the 7. Change lanes and put it flush in the pocket for a strike.
Looking completely unconcerned, I would then sit down and look bored.

Seemed to sort of white-ant the confidence of quite a few opponents.

Given an hour or so to practice, I could probably still do it ???

 

[Brenton_Davy]

OK, based on experience from last weekend, I executed fairly poorly on the Saturday and was 6th after that day. I used Saturday night to determine where I had gone wrong with my execution and what I had to to do it better on Sunday. Come Sunday and my execution improved considerably and as a result I was able to win the event. My entire focus on the Sunday revolved around making better shots than I had the previous day and the 200 or so pins I lost the first day due to poor executions were found on the 2nd.

 

[Jen3910]

I'm not the world's greatest bowler. I bowl twice a week - one night I have an average of 139, the second night I have an average of 179. The big difference is that i enjoy the second night more. I think if you start trying too hard and getting annoyed when you throw a crap shot, that's when you start to bowl worse.
For me, throwing a good shot is more important than the actual score. I try not to look at the scoreboard except to check what frame I'm on. I try and throw a strike every frame, and I don't stress when I don't happen to get one.
I take it frame by frame and don't look at the overall game. I treat each frame like a new game.

 

[Casual Observer]

I think people should sit back and read this topic then wonder why more league bowlers don't join.

Winning is not everything.

 

[wchester]

Bowlers practice because they want to get better, not because they want to have more fun.
WINNING IS THE ULTIMATE EXPERIENCE

 

[Roysa]

I think people should sit back and read this topic then wonder why more league bowlers don't join.

Winning is not everything.

I took your advice... i re-read every post.

I still dont understand why you think some of the comments on here would impact on a new league bowler.

The comments from the people in here that are saying they want to win are some of the best bowlers in the country.

There is a massive difference between bowling to win and whinging like a little sook when you dont, the difference is what earns respect.

For a new league bowler the choice is available, there are "fun social leagues" and there are more serious "higher stakes leagues". My advice to someone wanting to join a league off the street.... start in a fun one, get a ball drilled, learn how it all works ie the hdcp system, the etiquette to giving way and maybe even get some lessons. Then get another ball drilled (most do once they are hooked) increase your avg and move to a more serious league if they so choose.

To say that an individuals winning attitude scares off new bowlers is just not right IMO.

 

[da_cowman]

Interesting point again there John.... i was having a discussion with a fellow bowler yesterday about our sport in general.

I brought up a point that is one of a very few sports where I or anyone else dont have any direct way to impact the outcome of my opponents results.

By that i mean, in footy i can tackle you and stop you, in tennis i can serve better so you cant reach it and in basketball i can block your shots.

Essentially my thoughts are that alot of the bad sportsmanship shown by people in all sports comes from losing a 'battle' within the game, ie missing a tackle and being heckled for it by the oponent or celebrating a big point in tennis and getting 'in the face' of the guy on the other side of the net.

In bowling you can beat your self more often than your opponent beating you. And there is nothing you can do about it.

FYI in case you are wondering, some of the other sports we thought of... Darts...Golf... feel free to add others.

Yes there is.
It's just not common, and when they pro's do it, you never see it on TV.

George has actually just started a topic on this very thing. The 'Pattern Carving' as he so delicately worded it, is how I can stop you from scoring to your potential. Or perhaps, more importantly, make it easier for me to score to mine. I'm pretty it's mentioned on the telecast for the PBA World Championships in 2009, Duke v Barnes. Randy mentions how in practice Duke used a dull sanded ball inside to mess with Barnes hook and hold spots. Duke, having just won the prior game playing the twig felt he didn't need to throw shots out there to much as he was happy with his reaction.

When the PBA used to do the best of 7 elimination formats it was common for players to sacrifice their first two games to adjust the lanes to their preference. Sometimes it was quite evident in the scores. Bowlers could go 160-170-260-250-260-250. We look at it and think, damn they worked it out brilliantly, when in truth, they fine tuned them brilliantly.

The formats of tournaments over here don't allow for this to happen very often. Otherwise we might see it a little more often. But it is possible for me to affect your outcome, it's just not as instantaneous as we've come to expect from other sports. But, it definitely does happen.

Cow

 

[jimcross]

If you don't have a desire to win, you're decended from some sort of alien from outer space. To be competitive is the basis of humanity's achievments, and most of their disasters and atrocities.

 

[John_Velo]

Hey Jim,

You know, (and this is now totally off track so forgive me for this next piece) is the desire to win not a creation of white man’s greed and the very reason we stage war against others. It is the same reason we believe that we are better and others, when in reality we come into the world the same way and descended from an evolution of the apes.

Others have said winning is all that matter, if they never win why do they continue to play a game they always lose at. I would dare to say because they love it and enjoy the sport for what it is. A sport for all sizes, types and ages.

But back on topic now, yes everybody likes to win. But the question raised is that all that matters? Clearly to some yes. For me winning could also be bowling 8 good shots this game when the last had only five good shots. Having a high game of 275 and when you bowl a 280 you beat your last high game or series. So in affect I beat myself.

I agree that at the elite level you have the ability to break lanes down to make it harder for the others on that pair of lanes. Falsely slip at the foul line and make out that the approaches are sticky to put your opponent off a little, or dare I say, crackle your drink bottle while your opponent is mid swing.

But at the end of the day you have to play yourself more than anybody. If your technique is perfect, your understanding of your mechanics spot on. You will bowl well enough to win a lot, but not all of the time and the only person you really beat is yourself by not being the best you could be.

When I bowl my aim is to beat my high series and game. I have no control at league level or any other level to really control my opponents or their results. If they are better on the day they will win.

So we should smile and enjoy this wonderful sport and embrace the experiences and people around us.

 

[Casual Observer]

Roysa, as much as anything else, people bowl league for a night out each week because they enjoy it. If people are looking to join a league to enjoy their bowling each week then they are not as likely to join one where the participants want to win at the cost of the social side of things.

If winning was everything then you would not shake hands at the end of each night or congratulate people on achieving a milestone and so on. These are the sportsmanship and the social side of it. Sure people like winning but it is not everything and not a single person on here truly thinks it is or they wouldn't do those things.