Is this the best way to prepare the juniors for the future?

[Mankind_280]

This years nationals looks like being the highest scoring in history!

congrats to all bowlers

I ask the question to the organisers,is a rining tenpin how you really want to decide the championship?

THOSE SCORES are WAY too high!

Yes you still have to bowl them but i dare say you will need to averaged 225 in the boys and 200 in the girls.


James Sitters

PS: I hope thats better matti!

 

[wchester]

I'll have a few comments about the scoring pace..but it'll take me awhile to calm down first..a
Keep watching this space!

 

[Mankind_280]

So far with a few days to go (676) it looks at as my prediction is correct or i dare share you might need 700 to qualify for boys masters 11 boys have cracked 700, it wouldnt be far off....

the girls is at 590... will crack 600


I'd like to get andrews frawleys thoughts on these scores... or anybody elses.


James Sitters

 

[scoreggia]

I understand where you're going with this thread James. Just check the President Shield scores. Does the words "false sense of security" ring a bell. Is it really fair to the kids bowling these scores that have trained so hard. It may very well say 3 to 1 on the oil pattern but ..........
I dunno but maybe some more opinions might help here. I guess it's open for discussion.

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Its always tough to justify things like high scores to those sitting in front of a screen and not here at the centre. High score are normally due to a number of factors working together.
Our pins are old and they are little defense. The kick backs have been put together to assist pin carry, they were rebuilt last year.
The wood lanes are superb, recoated 8 weeks ago, with a track shot right of 12. Anyone who got to play at Pine Rivers in Brisbane will remember how the lanes were.
kegel sanction technology means that bowlers know lane to lane squad to squad that the oil pattern is consistent.

Sure the scores are a little higher than I would have liked. Play the track and you will score well here. Just look at the girls scores. They aren't swinging through 25 like a few guys have been trying all week. Wayne of all people know about how the track shot can help scores. The lane pattern wants you to play in the track, so work out a way to do it and you will score, even if it means throwing it a little harder up the track. Its apart of bowling, play against it and you will be beaten up badly. Ask wayne about playing the house pro on wood lanes for money in the states. You better watch the scratch league first or you may with a few less bills than you came with.

Sorry to those who thinks it wrong, but maybe if we had put in new pins, shortened the buff a foot, the scores would have been about 15-20 pins lower per game. At least we didn't change them, even after these juniors started tearing them apart.

It has been a pleasure to host the event, sure they has not been many complaints, looking forward to the masters on the weekend as well.
Andrew.

 

[bad_ass]

Can someone pls tell me why ppl are complaing about high scores isnt it betta to se ehigh score's bowled why the sooking???

 

[Mankind_280]

Thank you Andrew for the swift and honest reply

for interest sake, have you played the pattern.... if so what was your best?


By posting here I simply wanted to know what other people think.


James Sitters

 

[willey]

As you can see High Scores are happening at the Nationals, is this bad, I think not , as I have said in previous posts, this is everything coming together right to produce scores. What are we supposed to do trick up the lanes so they can't score, No!
As you can see by Andrew's post they have fixed up the kickbacks, which will increase bounce, recoated lanes which for a while will be very flat until the coating shrinks and allows the wood grain to be more exposed, thereby creating inconsistancies, and having seen the pattern used there is no wall as such.
Now can anybody expect him to not make sure every little detail is right, as many who work in the industry will know, just something simple goes wrong with the lane machine than you have no scores and people go away thinking your house is hard, or you don't know what your doing.
willey.

 

[craig]

i know when i hosted the adult & junior nationals in 1998, back then the scores were high, i took this as a compliment that bowlers were able to take advantage of a good lane condition

and theres more to a good lane condition than the machine that runs over it, the machine just enhances everything that is good around it

lane surface
flat gutter conditions
kickback conditions
pindeck re enforcement
pin condition
pin spotting performance

and many other little 1 percenters

smart operators know this and employ these factors

its easy enough to criticise people for being able to score, but believe it or not, we pay to knock the pins over, and the more we pay the more we want to knock over, and that i would classify to be a fair deal

17 years ago in my last shield, i took 4 balls, that cost me $1000 but i had them balls for years, it cost me a zero to goto shield in QLD, and the game rate was about $2.00 a game, now thats double or even more, each player pays out on average $1000 to get there, they have $1000 -$2000 in gear that will be in the for sale section in 2 years time.

17 years ago if i was asked to pay that much money to bowl nationals / shield i would have replied by saying

" i would pay that if i could average 50 pins more"

this is what these kids are doin, and good luck to them

and congratulations to andrew for hosting a successfull event

and to all you Kegel haters out there, you are so fighting a losing battle, kegel will rule the world in 5 years time, no matter who tries to fight it, the machine is so superior to everything else on the market

and dont tell me half the non kegel operators out there aren't tryin to manipulate their machines to try and keep up, i know several pad technology machines the out right block their lanes too load the scores up, sure kegel owners have higher scoring centres, but it's only because the machine does it better without even going near a blocked condition

 

[bowlrig]

Well done Andrew and your staff, Alicia say's the centre is spot on and is having a great time up there.
Good luck to all the kid's bowling shield, they are only bowling on what they are given, they do not have a choice.
People complained about the condition that was set at Bendigo for the Youth Commonwealth Games trials and that was the opposite end of the spectrum.
It is not just the conditioning of lanes but the power of the bowling balls that have increased scoring.
Alot of these kids are very talented and the same kids would still have been in the same ladder positions on tougher lane conditions.

Hey Chucky,

the machine is so inferior to everything else on the market

Don't you mean SUPERIOR
Sorry mate thought I had better check you on that one 8)

Rob

 

[bad_ass]

mr sitters is just pissed cause he dont bowl nomore for awhile so get ova the scores james an stop ur bloody whingen

 

[Matti]

lol...

I think the older pins are better , anyhow's .. But why a new center with old pins?

 

[Levithian]

probably what came with the rest of the equipment. When you go past the point of them increasing pin carry, to the point where they are so dead they dont do anything, thats when you can b*tch about pins

Could be much worse guys, i can remember a nationals where a centre had their machine go down at which point the lanes had not been oiled all day and most of the morning squads the day after. Talk about tough trying to make your way through that mess! the sahara would have given up more liquid than that place :shock:

 

[Craiggles]

I know this might sound a little abrupt but I must say this ...

Do you want "good lanes" or "bad lanes"? Make up your mind!

To me, this question is irrelevant anyway because if the lanes are different to my liking, obviously I have to move my mark in order to find the line I need for striking. If you want to place in any sort of decent placing you will need to apply that know-how to your shot.

The lanes have obviously been prepared very well for the Junior Nationals and I congratulate Andrew and his staff for their preparations.

For the life of me I cannot understand how someone can be criticised for doing something good. We had a big debate about adverse lane conditions not so long ago and everyone knows what I said then about it. I never thought we would be discussing criticism for high-scoring lane conditions.

My final comment is that no matter how good the lanes are, its the bowler who has to put the ball in the right spot. Credit also has to go for the bowlers for the high scoring.

 

[Matti]

Really why would you want to bowl always on good lanes , If there bad it takes more skill to get used to them.. Now the ball's do most of the work for you ..

 

[Craiggles]

I fully agree with you, Matti, and lanes are not always "good" or always "bad". If the lanes were always easier to score then there would be a bit of a problem, but this is not how I see the situation. Also there has to be a good condition for lower averaged bowlers, not just the open bowlers. The open bowlers have obviously done very well on those lanes but its the lower averaged and first-year Junior National bowlers are a little more sensitive as to whether they come back the next year, age permitting of course.

 

[wchester]

High score are normally due to a number of factors working together.
Our pins are old and they are little defense. The kick backs have been put together to assist pin carry, they were rebuilt last year.
The wood lanes are superb, recoated 8 weeks ago, with a track shot right of 12.

I notice Andrew said the track shot was right of 12 and didn't mention anything about the left side. Could this be the reasoning behind why Matt Sing and Anthony Morrell (the two premier junior lefties in Australia) have bowled badly?


Sure the scores are a little higher than I would have liked. Play the track and you will score well here. Just look at the girls scores. They aren't swinging through 25 like a few guys have been trying all week. Wayne of all people know about how the track shot can help scores. The lane pattern wants you to play in the track, so work out a way to do it and you will score, even if it means throwing it a little harder up the track. Its apart of bowling, play against it and you will be beaten up badly. Ask wayne about playing the house pro on wood lanes for money in the states. You better watch the scratch league first or you may with a few less bills than you came with.

I've had more than my share of honor scores and can honestly say that most of them were aided by the pattern. Wood lanes will almost always allow an accurate track player to shoot numbers providing the oil pattern has given them hold at the pocket. It's my contention that the pattern in the Jr Nationals is the main culprit. Take away the hold and scores will be lowered significantly.

However, I've seen the majority of these girls bowl before and these scores are out of line with their overall ability and skills.

Girls Averages

1 Bianca FLANAGAN 38.5 pins per game over average

2 Tracey MADDEN 44.9 pins per game over average

3 Kara BUNTING 51.9 pins per game over average

4 Hayley DONNELLY 55.1 pins per game over average

5 Cassandra FAGG 38.7 pins per game over average

6 Amanda FROST 4.1 pins per game over average

7 Samantha FISHER 23.7 pins per game over average

8 Emma TUBB 28.4 pins per game over average

9 Kimberley HAINING 37.1 pins per game over average

10 Tiffany BOWDLER 35.6 pins per game over average

 

[CSP]

Frawls is correct in saying there is a number of factors for high scoring. Being in the industry along time both working and competing, those factors definately come into the game.

The high scoring by these juniors will be great for their future as they will have the confidence and belief in themselves to consistently score high. This only comes from the bowler being accurate too.

I was at the centre for the final day of shield and saw a number of bowlers bowling very accurately and gained the result of a high game. Those kids the couldn't hit the same target twice didn't score very well.

James, I don't know why you brought this topic up because the most important thing is that the juniors were very happy with everything and were enjoying the atmosphere of the shield.

Christian

 

[micky_macca]

High score are normally due to a number of factors working together.
Our pins are old and they are little defense. The kick backs have been put together to assist pin carry, they were rebuilt last year.
The wood lanes are superb, recoated 8 weeks ago, with a track shot right of 12.

I notice Andrew said the track shot was right of 12 and didn't mention anything about the left side. Could this be the reasoning behind why Matt Sing and Anthony Morrell (the two premier junior lefties in Australia) have bowled badly?


Sure the scores are a little higher than I would have liked. Play the track and you will score well here. Just look at the girls scores. They aren't swinging through 25 like a few guys have been trying all week. Wayne of all people know about how the track shot can help scores. The lane pattern wants you to play in the track, so work out a way to do it and you will score, even if it means throwing it a little harder up the track. Its apart of bowling, play against it and you will be beaten up badly. Ask wayne about playing the house pro on wood lanes for money in the states. You better watch the scratch league first or you may with a few less bills than you came with.

I've had more than my share of honor scores and can honestly say that most of them were aided by the pattern. Wood lanes will almost always allow an accurate track player to shoot numbers providing the oil pattern has given them hold at the pocket. It's my contention that the pattern in the Jr Nationals is the main culprit. Take away the hold and scores will be lowered significantly.

However, I've seen the majority of these girls bowl before and these scores are out of line with their overall ability and skills.

Girls Averages

1 Bianca FLANAGAN 38.5 pins per game over average

2 Tracey MADDEN 44.9 pins per game over average

3 Kara BUNTING 51.9 pins per game over average

4 Hayley DONNELLY 55.1 pins per game over average

5 Cassandra FAGG 38.7 pins per game over average

6 Amanda FROST 4.1 pins per game over average

7 Samantha FISHER 23.7 pins per game over average

8 Emma TUBB 28.4 pins per game over average

9 Kimberley HAINING 37.1 pins per game over average

10 Tiffany BOWDLER 35.6 pins per game over average

Actually Matt Sing did bowl a 740 to cut for masters and he had the whole left side of the lane to himself, even he would admit that. Ant Morrell is suffering a back injury lately so that could have something to do with it.

 

[willey]

Maybe I can shed some light on Wchester's argument about the juniors bowling well above thier entering average.
I know the Northen NSW side practiced on tougher conditions for weeks befere the event, we made sure they had at least a 3:1 pattern on a couple of occasions during practice. We also made sure they had equipment set up for early flip in case the pattern was long. All this and a lot of extra practice for weeks must have some effect on thier bowling, and I can bet you every other team did just as much and possibly more.
Maybe this can set his mind at ease.
willey.


Than again he might like the old days of little or inconsistant backends, because thats what they had in the dark-ages. Thats what causes the scores of today " friction ".