Intrastate Challenge

[Bowling Chic]

Scott,

Do you really think a 150 or below ave bowler, has a chance at winning a scratch event against a 190-200+ bowler.........for money???

Good practice..... for the 190+ bowler not sure, but I guess for the lower ave bowler who can bowl 60+ pins over ave EACH & EVERY game then........yeah right!! The high ave bowlers may as well split the cash & all go home without bowling a ball.

You also said;

"The handicap systems only favoured the restricted players and at the end of the tournament the restricted players gloated about the victory over the open players".

Scott, it is just as negative for an open bowler to gloat about victory in a scratch tournament over someone who they know has 50-60 pin lower ave.

The feeling I've been getting through a lot of these posts is that the open bowlers don't want to bowl in a handicapped event because they wouldn't be guaranteed a win, & hey why would they do it when there's cash/pride on the line?? The same argument can be used by a lower ave bowler entering a scratch event "why bother entering if you really don't have a shot at the money anyway"..... My question is .......What is the challenge really about anyway? To practice with a purpose, prepare our ACT teams for the nationals or win money (& gloating rights)?

I think that Michaels suggestion above about forming teams from the ACT rep sides, both men & women is a great idea. As long as the team averages are relatively the same, then it could be run as a scratch event no problems.

I think:

1. It would provide good practice in a semi serious environment;

2. The cash trophy offers an incentive for bowlers to participate;

3. Bowlers will need to rely on team members to perform to their full potential in order to win, therefore putting a bit of pressure on each bowler (as you have in any tournament);

4. Each bowler is given the opportunity to win the money;

5. It can be run as a scratch event.

In turn it provides "practice with a purpose".

It also gives the ACT Rep teams an opportunity to meet & mingle with the other state teams, & lets face it we need to work on this aspect. Have a BBQ - Top idea. Make it a fundraiser.....even better. You should all wear your training shirts & promote yourselves. Let the public know who you are. Who wouldn't buy a sausage from an ACT Rep bowler??? Who knows you might even inspire someone to take up a league, or even better, encourage others to roll off for an ACT team!!

Bear in mind though, this will only be successful if it is organised properly. I know from past experience that what looked good on paper, didn't go well & was due mainly to poor organisation or attendance.

This is just my 2c worth. Good luck with the Challenge.

Janet

PS Sorry for the long post.

 

[Scotty Gooch]

Ok Janet now dont get on soap box over this I merely made a sugestion as to a possible for the State Challenge.

You have quoted me on one line but taken it out of context I also said that whatever decision are made it must be fair for everyone!

I agree with you a 150 or lower average bowler would not stand much of a chance against a much higher average bowler but the idea that was put up in this forum was to have a challenge where all state rep sides could compete against each other. I thought about the challenges from the past inwhich I was a part of that proved to be just a negative prior to going to nationals. Thats why I made a comment and put my idea forward.

I am all for bowlers of all averages getting together and competiting (disabled, juniors, seniors and rachuig) but if it is to be used as practice then it needs to be constructive practice to the benefit of all bowlers. I grew up in this sport and from the age of 9 or 10 when I first saw Rachuig bowled I made it my goal to be at that level one day that is what I used to drive me and inspire me to practice and learn the game. Thats what I beleive the junior bowlers of today need and the DeVeer Bowlers too for that matter better to bowl with the guys and girls from the Rachuig side and learn from them.

You know this forum is a great idea, bowlers can talk about anything and put forward ideas it's a pitty that some people are now just so negative that they think everyone is just using it to have a dig a other bowlers or centres.

Goochie

 

[stormy]

I will say that the Scoops/Michael idea has merit. But it would be 14 teams as there are 7 people in a team
so

Team 1
Rachuig
DeVeer
Junior
Senior

there are 56 bowlers therefore with equals 14 teams
If it is used as a fund raiser the proceeds could be split between the 4 groups.

I do realise that in this estimate it does not include the Oakfield reps but there maybe someway to incorporate them into the competition.

All said and I would agree that this would be the fairest way of doing it without handicap.- no idividual winner just a team effort.

 

[Greg Ward]

Hi all,

It is good to see a few other interested parties making comment about this topic.

I feel the combined team approach certainly has merit. However one downfall is that the "team" based approach is designed to get bowlers from the same team used to bowling with other bowlers from their team in preparation for their respective comps. But I could be convinced that bowling with bowlers from other rep sides was a good idea as well providing Rachuig bowler 1 doesn't get paired up to bowl against Rchuig bowler 2 etc. [Stormy we normally bowl 5 person teams, but 4 may be OK here.]

On the issue of making the teams even on paper, IE working out the team average with one Rachuig, 1 senior, etc really is no different to having 5 Rachuig bowlers bowling together and then comparing there average against another team - providing we use "real averages".

The idea I put forward of using a Roll off and/or national and/or any other "serious" tournament results should give a level playing field. I would find it hard to believe that any bowler would sandbag at any national event or rolloff and hence a handicap based on those results should ON AVERAGE produce a fair result. Hence using a 66% or 75% of a "real Average" is still a significant disadvantage.

I certainly like the concept of centres putting in a few $ as well as the bowlers. And I like the idea of getting as many teams together as possible including Seniors, Rachuig, Oakford, Presidents Shield, Intercentre teams, De Veer and of course the Legends or some other "all star" teams to add to the numbers.

Is there any reason why the challenge can't be run over three days as per the De Veer three day training session in Sept? That should get at least three centres involved.

Gota go.

Greg.

 

[Craigy]

at the moment there are only 7
bowlers from CIB rolling off next yr
for shield so we have only got 48 bowlers
( Senior Restricted only have 6 bowlers )
so we would need another 7 jnrs maybe
from belconen to make the other jnr team
and we would also need another person to
bowl for the seniors restricted team

* Michael Craig *

 

[Bowling Chic]

Scott,

I hear what you're saying & you know me well enough to know how I feel about bowling in general. You also know that I aspire to Rachuig one day, but only if I'm good enough & work hard at it (& maybe in my dreams). I am liking more & more the scratch events also, so you don't get any argument from me there.

However, there are a lot of people in the ACT bowling arena who are not at Rachuig level & are happy to be where they are, or may not be able to go further with their bowling for some reason or another, & because of this, when Interstate challenges come along they don't need to be told that a scratch event is the only way it is going to be run (which is how it is pitched most of the time). This does nothing for their bowling confidence. It's not great to be hammered in a "training" session. It leaves you quite un-inspired really.

As you also know from my previous post, I am in full support of all ACT teams getting together for sessions both bonding & training & think it should be used as nothing but a positive thing & there should be more emphasis placed upon it. We are one State & therefore should encourage bowlers of all levels, not just the one we are at.

As you said this forum is for people to voice their opinions. I am voicing my opinion on the subject of scratch v's Handicap for "training" purposes, & it's from the point of view of bowlers who don't pop out games over 190+ every time. I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you or your bowl.

I think this forum is a good way of communication & lets us know what other people with the same interest (especially in our state) feel about certain issues. I guess we also have to take the good with the bad in comments that people post. I don't think I have posted anything I wouldn't or haven't already said to you or anyone else personally.

Seeya bud!!

Janet

PS - I didn't think I owned a soap box!!

 

[stormy]

Michael

Seniors have a rep team made up of 7 Male and 7 Female they are bowlers who have reached the age of con ops decent. That is over 45.

As for the juniors, there were 20 that went away to the ICC so getting 7 boys and 7 girls would not be a problem. Off-course the ones rolling off next year for presedents shield should have preference.

may the grass grow greener

 

[Reg Gooch]

Hey all,
Personally i don't think the mixed teams is a great idea (my opinion) as Greg has pointed out the whole idea of training sesions is to bond the teams and to prepare them for the nationals. There are nights set out for state team bonding and i belive these are the nights that we should mingle with the other rep teams. This challenge if it ever gets of the ground should be bowled with the teams that are going away. Now as for the prize money offer why don't the team who wins the challenge put the money won into their fundraiser kitty?

Good to hear from you bro. 8)

 

[Mike S]

Hi All,

Interesting topic.

Stormy you said

Seniors have a rep team made up of 7 Male and 7 Female they are bowlers who have reached the age of con ops decent. That is over 45.

I would just like to point out that the seniors rep team only has six bowlers. I don't believe that they are decending anywhere (yet)

Cheers
Mike

 

[stormy]

Sorry Mike

I was sure there were 7 o'well it must be that they are in the decent. But I'm sure they could dig up a couple extra.

and yes I did know that you do bowl in teams of 5 but its hard to divide 5 into 56

 

[stormy]

well,

lets not this die a premature death even before it gets started :cry: .

MikeS and Matt F- how about calling a meeting and get this idea :idea: thrashed out - I don't believe that it should be "training" it should be a way of combining a challenge with a side wager and lot of commandery rather than purely team verses team. :wink:

The longer it is left the less time there is to organise seeing how the ACT Champs are on for the next couple of weeks several of the juniors will be away at the end of the month - so September would be a goer :?:

Any thoughts????

 

[pixie]

the whole idea of training sesions is to bond the teams and to prepare them for the nationals. There are nights set out for state team bonding and i belive these are the nights that we should mingle with the other rep teams

have found this discussion very interesting so far and think that mikel's idea shows great merit, after all training is training regardless of who you follow in a line-up. you may even find that those who did participate might pick up a few pointers from bowling with different people of different skill levels. we have had numerous training sessions in which the guys have all played as a team as have the ladies, not sure how much bonding has happened with that so far......as for the nights set out for bonding where we can mingle with the other teams, so far of the two that have been organised one was cancelled due to "lack of interest" (very disappointing) and at the second one we found that several people did not turn up and those that did broke off into rachuig tables and de veer tables, not a lot of mixing happened.

I think you will also find that the rachuig men have already shown this year they have no problem answering a call to "assist" bowlers in a challenge as the juniors found before they went to melbourne, where the rachuig men turned up in force, whereas there was less than half a dozen de veer people, both men and women. :wink:

[/quote]

 

[stormy]

Forget the bonding for once and enjoy the company of others bowling in your team their team - if you haven't bonded already hehe then one day out to help and be helped by either more experienced bowlers and to encourage less experience bowlers has benefit to all - I feel sorry if you cant see this.

 

[pixie]

That is what I was trying to say, I just used a few examples.....

 

[stormy]

now lets convince the others. It would be a shame if the fun of bowling is lost on a few that expect but will never achieve perfection.

 

[DrewC]

Challenge

Sorry guys call me what you will but the rachuig boys
have very limited opportunity to bowl together (with most committed to tournaments all over the place) so the chances are we get we will more than likely bowl as a team.

Stormy, Mike is now the TBA State manager so this 'challenge' probably falls to the State board which Matt is the President. I agree it would be a good idea to organise formats etc ASAP. It would also be a good idea to get some prices from the centres again probably something for the board to do.

I believe there is already a weekend selected for the challenge and it is sometime in September. I don't know what the venues are If the Oakford team is invited then I guess only Tuggers Belco and Woden are suitable. (Goochie can confirm whether or not Queanbeyan is set up for disabled bowlers)

Take it easy.

Drew

 

[DrewC]

Challenge

P.S If your planning to win you gotta train for perfection. :wink:

 

[stormy]

Hi Drew

I said some not all.

This statement was not aimed at those that are going away to tournaments such as you, Matt & Brett and Scoops- are an example of what hard work and practice can do. (besides bending the elbow hehe)

and I believe in practice practice practice, but to achieve perfection one must achieve perfect practice.

to achieve perfect practice you then achieve what you set out to do - nothing less

But one must also be able to enjoy and have fun as well as help - must never lose sight of the people and friends around - otherwise ......

 

[Grim64]

I believe it was once said not to mix politics and some other crap, lets get bowling, and worry about the rest of it later.

I would personaly would like to bowl with/against the Rachuig boys. If I don't win, I hope I am clever enough to learn something whist I am at it.

After we bowl, we drink and eat. It is that simple.

8) :?:

 

[Trace]

hey everyone!

Firstly I have to say that i love this idea! Coz i have to admit that any chance i get to bowl with/aganst the rachuig/de veer men i seem to bowl better...i guess its just the whole idea of opening some serious whoop tooshie, and maybe winning hehehe.

The one thing that i have to ask is that everyone seems to be soo hung up on a scratch/handicap event...there are many other ways to have a competition. Triplex, 9 no tap (well maybe not everyone, just so i have a chance) whatever that game is where you get 3 frames with automatic strikes and you get to choose 3 different games(am i making any sense). All i'm saying is why not do something different which lets everyone bowl their own game, but there is an equal footing?

just my thoughts luv me