i hope you are covering the nationals next year graham

C

craig

Active Member
that would have to be the most amusing live web cam i have ever seen, unlike the year before that was always on the lane, this year all i got to see was a shot of the snack bar which i hope improved from appalling (junior nationals status), a couple of the grandstand, which looked half empty and a shot of a victorian whilst warming the pine pony who really looked like he wanted to be photographed at the time (NOT).

No team photo's, no rachuig photo's, nothing

i honestly would find it hard to believe that anyone thought this years rachuig coverage was anywhere near as good as the previous year.

theres my bitch for the year
 
Yes, please refer to my other post, and a post made by robopro. It seemed like there wasn't any coverage this year.
 
Unlike just about every post and every comment I have seen on this forum, I believe some congratulations need to be given to Ian Nicholls on a job well done so far with keeping us up to date at the nationals, I know how much went into the effort you make and will continue to make in providing scores at major tournaments.

The reason I go onto the site is for the scores, and as far as scores go, I was constantly updated with all the results I was looking for right throughout the DeVeer and Rachuig, I had the team points, overall and individual points of every bowler as well as win points, the overall averages that decide the All Star Team, these features were what were important to me.

Some criticism has been made about the webcam and rightly so, but hell it sort of gives you an idea of where you are. And whilst I was not interested that much with it, it did show people that have never been there what the place looks like. The Rachuig Photo's were not your concern as I know they were supplied from a different source, and should be up when Peter can convert them. I know there is an official photographer there so maybe they can be in charge of action shots and candid shots, that can then be posted on the website.

As far as the critics go, Graham does an excellent job with this website, I know most of you protect his feelings and role in the bowling community and please continue to do so, but get real, the reason Graham is not covering the nationals is purely economics you all know that. As for all the critics have a look at the positives sometimes, focusing on negatives, looking for mistakes and errors and critisizing people who are doing their best gets sort of boring sometimes, that includes the TBA, AMF and anyone else having a go.

JUST MY OPINION, FOR WHAT IT"S WORTH.

Regards,
Patrick Birtig
 
webcam

I totally agree with you bworld, I found the tenpin.org site very informative , a little slow in the updates but that is to expected as there is a lot of info to go into the site. It will be interesting to see how they keep up with the masters :!:
 
FYI, the team and opening ceremony photographs have been uploaded to the TBA site today.

They have been late in being posted as one team (NSW) missed the official photo session with the photographer and had to re-schedule 3 times before they finally turned up.

We then needed to convert these 2mb jpeg files to a reasonable size so that you can view them without having to wait an eternity.

This all takes time. If I'd had them on Tuesday morning then they would have been available on Tuesday afternoon.

We thought the scores were more important and have focused our efforts in getting these uploaded as quickly as possible.

Live Scores were uploaded rougher every hour depending upon quickly each round was bowled. If your browser was in the middle of the 60 minute refresh cycle then the scores might appear to be slower. You could select F5 to speed up this process.
 
Economics...I don't think so!

If economics is the reason that the TBA gave Graham the flick, then how is it we now have two men doing the live coverage instead of just (Graham) one ?
Maybe Peter would like to shed some light upon this...
Peter, did you volunteer your services 100% including paying for your own accomodation?
How about Mr Nichols..does your hard work come with a price or are you being over generous and doing it gratis?
 
Wayne,

You certainly know me better than that and I'm quite insulted that you would assume that I have come to Bankstown to profit from the Nationals.

As you have asked, by the time I return home on Sunday night I will have been away 12 days with the Live Scores, etc at the nationals and not received one cent for my time, travel, accommodation or meals.

On top of this I have supplied the tournament with the use of one of my data projectors to display the scores on the 8' screen, opposite the control desk.

TBA offered me some reimbursement but I refused it.

I was coming here anyway with the Vic Rachuig team so I have simply added in a couple of days to do this for TBA. While I was tied up with Rachuig duties the all events and qualifying scores were a little slow as I found myself doing these well after midnight.

In case you're interested, my cost to do this, (including time of work and expenses) will easily exceed $5000.

You might ask why I'd be so foolish? The answer is easy and, Wayne, you know the answer as well as I do.
 
First off Congrats to TBA for their effforts covering the nationals, thanks Peter & Ian, AND well done to Graeme for his oustanding web site that i know is maintained at some personal cost to himself.
Graeme and his partners in the original website were the pioneers as far as getting Australian tenpin bowling on the web and keeping it there, it will continue to be the premier site.
I am not going to wade into the pros and cons of who covers what but lets give credit where credit is due.
There is room on the WWW for us all and no one site can do it all.
In my case I use some of Total Bowlings photos on my site (credit given of course) and many of the results and info is trawled from the pages of Total Bowling.
Peter and I have also worked together recently bringing the Vic State Championship records up to date.
The TBA and myself might never take a warm shower together but at least we have resovled our differences enough that we can exchange info for mutual benefit.
Cooperation and teamwork is the way to go.
And the one thing we all have in common is the love of the game.
 
Hear hear

Just a warning that this is not a normal mild mannered Finchy post.....

I would just like to say all credit to whoever covers the multitude of National, State and local events in the Australian bowling calendar during the year. There is too much going on for one person or organisation to cover ALL of the events ALL of the time, and the more we can back up those that take the time and effort to get information through to us all the better.

God knows it is a thankless task and all Graham, Peter and Ian seem to be getting lately is flack and negative criticism for not having instantaneous scores and nice photos on the net, and I think there are a lot of people out there who should pull their heads in and be thankful that we get the coverage we do, from whatever source.

I for one would like to congratulate and thank the whole damn lot of you who take the time and effort to make the scores, results and photos (whenever available) to those of us who are not actually there in person watching the events. I know that I personally would not be able to put in the time and effort that the guys currently do, and I'm sure that a lot of the critics out there would not be able to do a poofteenth of the good job that they are all currently doing.

So - (deep breath) stop criticising and be thankful that we have people in Australia who are prepared to spend their long hours (often in their free time) and lots of their own money ensuring that hot headed windbags have all sorts of tournament information at their fingertips at the touch of a button.

PS: The team photos for the nationals were deliberately "downgraded" for the net so that the official photographer fulfilled his mandate of SELLING the real thing instead of every Tom Diick and Harry printing the photos from the web themselves... He has to make a living somehow... and can I just say from having seen quite a few of the real photos they were excellent as always... :lol: :lol:

Note to self - in future do not get onto Totalbowling forum after having a few ales... :) :) :) :)
 
Pedro...And hopefully you know me well enough to realise it wasn't you I was having a go at. I applaud anyone who volunteers their time and effort into helping publicize our sport.
I just have some issues with the way the TBAL treats some of it's members.

I would love to serve as a state or national rep or in a higher capacity ( is June's positiin out of the question? ) but it appears that I've missed the deadline ( Bendigo never posted anything about nominations )

Wayne
 
ok i dont usually say anything on here but i am going too.

everyone complains about how ten pin bowling isnt recognised as a sport and how we arent in the olimpics or the commenwealth games and all of that. but how are we supposed to be out doing all these things without the TBA. ever since they ahev been running everything they have done is for us the bowlers. and the majority of it has been great sure things dont always turn out great but that is just the way things go. also you have to think about the money side of things as peter has said he did everything for nothing. most people think that it costs just the amount they pay for all these tournements to be running but alot goes on behind closed dorrs that we dont know about.

so before you start saying how much of a terrible job they are doing, get behind them and support them and maybe what you think about them will be different. get your facts right before you start syaing things.

i would also like to say congrats to the TBA committe for both the junior and adult nationals they were both great, you have all done a good job. keep up the good work.

Thanks Bee
 
i totally agree with bee we dont know everything that goes on behinde closed doors and i have helped out with a few tournements the parents and commitie members do alot for love of the game and dont get alot in return... there is alot of bitchyness from bowlers who dont know all the stuff that goes on back stage... so why dont yas find out b4 criticising the parents and commitie members who do alot for this sport just because they love it and because they have their own kids in there and want to get in there and help out...
i agree with you on tis one bee...
congrats to yas
u guys r doing a great job keep it up
 
ok while i agree in some ways with bee and michelle, tba is starting to get their act together, the problem is, they did a lot of piss farting around in the early years of tba that got a LOT of old (and not so) and once faithful bowlers VERY pissed off.. and to be honest i think it will take a long time to whoo them back on the tba's side.

all sorts of things like non-existant league stationary that was paid for and arrived like 3-6 months later (and after all the bowlers had given it up in disgust - so we couldnt then present the awards they had paid for to them),
the letting go of, and being told to "(you know what) off" - "we dont need you" of level 2 coaches and all coaches in general - mind you which has been covered up extremely well over the years...
stories that i have heard about the [(Edit:)atbc] reps visiting bowling leagues and meeting, mixing and promoting with the people that KEEP IT GOING! i would personally love to see that up and going! even if it was only once a year and just a state rep! from a normal league bowlers point of view, how excited would you be to meet and maybe challenge for fun a rep or famous bowler?!
a bowling magazine that used to feature all sorts of stories from all over australia. i'm sure there were reasons why the mag was dumped but reading back on collections at some bowling alleys is nice if you werent around at the time. like back in 93? nationals in tassie the boys open masters was a thrilling final. even just reading it made me shiver! where is that nowdays? (sorry i dont know if i have the right names.. billy gardiner and tony massie in the final?)
sure there's the internet, but what about the people not using the net? or not using it enough to read all the bowling news, you cant take a puter and net access to work to read during lunch or tea :p [Edit: and chances are the stuff on the net wont be there in 20 years to show the kids!]

small and major things like that combining all at once have turned people sour. it really is amazing to hear stories from people that were there during the 70's - early 90's and comparing it to what we have today. actually in a lot of ways it is quite sad. but the future can only get better :)

and to peter, ok so i was in a bad mood when i posted about the website. i apologize. please accept my regards, and remember, there are like over 1000 memebers of grahams site, some/most of which i reckon would be glad to help with the website if you need it or ask for it! whether it be with design, scores, news photos, old classic stories or whatever.

so if your still reading my ramblings, sorry. :p
correct me if im wrong..
it wass just a little dream i have about the future, getting back to the olden golden days of bowlings prosperity!
 
It is absolutely pointless the tenpin bowling websites fighting over patronage. If we all worked together in the best interests of the sport and it's bowlers, then both sites and bowlers would be so much better off.

Graham offers a fantastic forum, at totalbowling, which will never be equalled by any other TPB site in Australia. TBA have no interest in a forum on their site.

The TBA site offers a new found communication link and information centre to bowlers at all levels. New information is posted on the TBA site on a daily basis and quite often this will be the only place to find such factual information.

Graham does a fantastic job in producing the Live Scores for the AMF Super 6 tournaments and some of these are with Ian's assistance. Graham works for AMF so why wouldn't he cover them.

TBA host their own annual events in the form of Adult, Junior and now the new Youth Nationals, as well as national team roll offs and development camps. TBA have every right to decide who covers these scores on the Net (if at all). I'm a bit biased here but I think that the scores from the past fortnight proves that it was far from a disaster, as everyone had predicted.

TBA might have cut costs for the Live Scores at Nationals but we made sure that we didn't cut back on the quality. This point should not be lost here.
 
In reference to Pedro,

My coverage of the AMF Super Six has nothing to do with the fact that I work for them. The deal to cover all events for 2002 was completed way back in January, with a current deal being negotiated for coverage in 2003. I joined AMF in July. One of the provisos of me joining would be that TotalBowling would remain independant, and AMF would have no say over how this site is run. This has happened, and should I leave the employ of AMF, the coverage of the Super Six will remain the same and will not change.

Ian Nicholls did a fantastic job of scoring at the Nationals, his results were comprehensive and full. He is developing his scoring system every event and every event it is getting better and better. TBA can take no credit for Ians hard work, moreso the TBA website was just a carrier of Ians hard work. I appreciate working with Ian at events, if he isn't there then so be it, I get on and do it the hard way. Ian makes everyones life easy, without him the coverage would have been totally different. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have no problems with Ian.

Well there is a website called BowlingDigital.com, rnu by a man called Herbert Bickel. I would have to say BowlingDigital.com is the number one website in the world for covering bowling. Do I try and rip off his ideas, try to copy what is already a site far ahead of what I am doing ? NO, I work with Herbert, supplying him with photos and stories to give coverage to Australian Tenpin Bowling across the world. A lot of people visit BowlingDigital, why try and compete ? You ask why not work together ? Why not ask what happens when you disagree with the powers that be. Peter, I applaud your efforts to further the sport in the country, however there is a reason TotalBowling is and always will stay independant. Politics. I will saddened the day when either you piss TBA off or they piss you off and all of a sudden they don't have someone that wants to update their website on their own time. Who will they call on then ? I know the reasons that were given for me not covering nationals, however I am not stupid and can read between the lines. TBA have no intention of using me again, not while you are doing it for nothing, for the love of it all. Love only goes so far.

Good luck and high scoring.
 
Very well said Graham.

I am not replying in this topic to criticise as I will give credit where credit is due. However I do believe as a bowler and a spectator of the internet coverage of the nationals that we should be able to give comments on what we would like to see and what may need improving for next time. Correct me if I am wrong.

I am not sure about others, but I know , as I was unable to attend nationals, that I would have liked to have seen photos of the winning teams in both Walter De Veer and Rachuig. It was great that photos were supplied from the WDV Dinner Dance, but I think most people would have liked to have seen photos of the teams being presented with their respective trophies etc, not photos of people eating and all the rest of it. Same goes with Rachuig. As I am from the QLD I would have liked to have seen a photo of the QLD Ladies team with their trophy. I am unsure if these photos will be put up at a later date but these are just some suggestions for next time. I am also aware that it takes time to load photos etc and I am not criticising for these photos not being there. I am merely giving suggestions of what I and maybe other bowlers would like to see in future coverages.

On the other hand, the live scores were done well. They were available within minutes of the games finishing and I commend Peter, Ian and whoever else on this.

Sorry if I have offended anyone but this is just what I think.

Thanks.
 
Kel,

I understand your point on the photos. However, an official photographer was at the nationals and we had an obligation to him to allow his photos to be produced and sold rather than just posting them on the net and therefore robbing him of any commission or sales for them.

He earns his living from these photographs.

Team photos of WDV and Rachuig teams have been available on the site for quite some time and courtesy of Barry Davies.
 
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