Just back from Caboolture witnessing the Hammer where the condition was like a reverse block. Why do Seniors have to combat tough conditions???. Condition had to be like the USA will be for World Seniors in August, there is no way Aussie condition will be likened to USA condition for several reasons. I do not think a centre Manager or Tournament Director can be told what pattern they can put down. For the cost of bowling in tournaments all bowlers just want to get good results for their efforts. Why pay for a format then, when on the lanes ready to bowl, they are told there will be less games. One more thing, in all my years of competing, did a SINGLES TOURNAMENT have SIX BOWLERS TO A PAIR in qualifying that is a TEAM tournament, surely a third squad would have made the pain easier.
How tough does bowling have to be???
- Thread starter dockers
- Start date
becka_girl
Proud Vic Chick
Watching the Seniors scores over the past year or so (without actually being at the tournament of course) the conditions havent looked that tough to me. The scores seem to have been pretty high at all events apart from maybe one or two? The group that has had the toughest patterns is the youth and juniors.
I have bowled a singles tournament with six bowlers to a pair, its a pain but it means more people can bowl and more prize money.
I have bowled a singles tournament with six bowlers to a pair, its a pain but it means more people can bowl and more prize money.
Schmicko
King of the Cabbo Carry
Spot on Roy, I have witnessed warren bowl on many occasions over the years, and it was a joy to watch (from behind the lanes)
As far as the pattern goes, it wasn't an 'Aussie' condition it was a wtba pattern, which is used right around the globe.. Yes, it did have an oob's area, however, as seen by the scores, it was very scorable if you were consistent and picked up spares.. If you sprayed the ball all over the place you were punished.. What's the problem?
I believe the reason behind 16 rather than 18 games was because b squad wouldn't have finished until 2 am..
None the less, the more consistent bowlers won the event, congrats to them..
Cabbo bowl and animal (and mrs animal) ran a great event and my hat goes off to them and the other sponsers
As far as the pattern goes, it wasn't an 'Aussie' condition it was a wtba pattern, which is used right around the globe.. Yes, it did have an oob's area, however, as seen by the scores, it was very scorable if you were consistent and picked up spares.. If you sprayed the ball all over the place you were punished.. What's the problem?
I believe the reason behind 16 rather than 18 games was because b squad wouldn't have finished until 2 am..
None the less, the more consistent bowlers won the event, congrats to them..
Cabbo bowl and animal (and mrs animal) ran a great event and my hat goes off to them and the other sponsers
jayboybriz
Active Member
Caboolture holds very well run tournaments all year round and lay a pretty good representation of the advertised patterns. the 'Open' bowlers recently played a tournament there that had 3 different patterns laid out (shark, wtba Atlanta and cheetah) and only 3 out of 32 bowlers averaged over 200. Challenging bowling is brilliant and I love playing on tough patterns rather than ditches. Adaptability in shot-making is a huge skill that is often overlooked in this sport
Glennell
Active Member
I thought long and hard about adding comments to this thread. Being one that found the condition more than I could manage, I don't want the following to be construed as "sour grapes" but....
Schmicko is correct - there was an "out of bounds" and you went there at your own peril but you didn't have to spray your shot or go oob to get an inconsistent result. I agree, those that managed the condition deserved to win and congratulations to them but to only have 9 bowlers out of 100+ bowlers achieve a 200+ average implies it was very difficult and may yet have an impact on future tournaments. With respect, I would like to hear comments from those that bowled in the conditions.
There has been a long standing argument about what pattern should be set to get the best results for the seniors competition. I won't go there again other than to say this condition did nothing for the Queensland Seniors Hammer Classic or the majority of competitors. This is in no way criticism of Animal, Carol or Batesy. As I understand it, they set the pattern as requested by TBA. Here lies my question. Why is the "seniors tour" used for the team selection of the world tournament? If special patterns are required, run a selection weekend where those that wish to nominate enter a specific tournament at a venue of TBA's choice. Over 75% of bowlers competing on the weekend were not trying for the Australian team but were impacted by the world team selection - is this appropriate?
Finally, it was a well run event as it always is. I will be there next year to support Animal and Carol. Congratulations to Warren (it was the 1st time I've seen him bowl and he will represent Australia well), Heather Robertson and all the money winners.
Schmicko is correct - there was an "out of bounds" and you went there at your own peril but you didn't have to spray your shot or go oob to get an inconsistent result. I agree, those that managed the condition deserved to win and congratulations to them but to only have 9 bowlers out of 100+ bowlers achieve a 200+ average implies it was very difficult and may yet have an impact on future tournaments. With respect, I would like to hear comments from those that bowled in the conditions.
There has been a long standing argument about what pattern should be set to get the best results for the seniors competition. I won't go there again other than to say this condition did nothing for the Queensland Seniors Hammer Classic or the majority of competitors. This is in no way criticism of Animal, Carol or Batesy. As I understand it, they set the pattern as requested by TBA. Here lies my question. Why is the "seniors tour" used for the team selection of the world tournament? If special patterns are required, run a selection weekend where those that wish to nominate enter a specific tournament at a venue of TBA's choice. Over 75% of bowlers competing on the weekend were not trying for the Australian team but were impacted by the world team selection - is this appropriate?
Finally, it was a well run event as it always is. I will be there next year to support Animal and Carol. Congratulations to Warren (it was the 1st time I've seen him bowl and he will represent Australia well), Heather Robertson and all the money winners.
Anthony L
Tony Long
Well written and well said Glennell and as a Senior (and l did not bowl this tournament) l do not think we need all these challenging patterns and like Glennell said if a world team is required then run a separate tournament and lay the toughest of tough patterns if that's what it takes... We seem to get a lot of criticism from the under 50 yr olds and others that sit behind and watch and don't bowl, that our patterns are not challenging, well l for one believe that a lot of the seniors bowl for the fun of it, the camaraderie and to catch up with each other 4 or 5 times a year.... Also our tournaments over the past few years have filled up so the old adage comes into play " if it ain't broke then don't fix it " ...Anyway l hope this tournament (Hammer Classic) and the next 2 (Melbourne Seniors AO and Canberra Classic) as the patterns being laid for the latter two are also challenging do not ruin the great run the Seniors have experienced over the last few years... but from what l am hearing it could well impact on them.... just my little say... Tony
Roysa
Well-Known Member
Are you saying Tony that you are hearing they won't bowl because it was too hard on the weekend?
Surely those who bowl the tourneys as a social event will return won't they?
Maybe this should just be taken as something to avoid next year but there is no need to make it a ditch and turn it into a carry contest just to allow everyone to avg 200+.
I don't know many of the seniors so excuse my ignorance but did the better bowlers win?
Surely those who bowl the tourneys as a social event will return won't they?
Maybe this should just be taken as something to avoid next year but there is no need to make it a ditch and turn it into a carry contest just to allow everyone to avg 200+.
I don't know many of the seniors so excuse my ignorance but did the better bowlers win?
Glennell
Active Member
I think there is room for some middle ground. It doesn't have to be a ditch but nor does it need to be that tough. As Tony said, seniors has been very successful for a number of years but a pattern of the weekend's nature is likely to do more harm than good. The objective of the Australian selection is to pick 4 bowlers for a tournament - let's not throw the "senior out with the bath water".
Hi All,
I too don't often comment because the words can get turned into sour grapes. I will say well said Glennell and supported by Tony L and my sentiments too. From the Animal, Carol and Batesy position, I feel for them as the pattern was imparted on them to put down without a choice, and I think a separate roll off for those who wanted to qualify for Vegas should have been the way to go.
I just want to say that calendar permitting, I think most of the Senior bowlers will return in 2014. AC
I too don't often comment because the words can get turned into sour grapes. I will say well said Glennell and supported by Tony L and my sentiments too. From the Animal, Carol and Batesy position, I feel for them as the pattern was imparted on them to put down without a choice, and I think a separate roll off for those who wanted to qualify for Vegas should have been the way to go.
I just want to say that calendar permitting, I think most of the Senior bowlers will return in 2014. AC
strop
Elite Athlete
Well Mr. Lennell, they certainly will be looking forward to April tourneys then.................Adelaide!!!........
I enjoyed the week-end up at Caboolture, I thought it was a little strange to make the decision of cutting back 2 games on the day? Were they expecting a lot of drop-outs.
I think they could have made the decision a little earlier. Other than that great week-end...........except...hell I hate the humidity....
Cheers
Tony
P.S good to see some old faces there too.....Don Brown....Tony Rodderick.....and Wassa....haven't seen for awhile....Great stuff!!
I enjoyed the week-end up at Caboolture, I thought it was a little strange to make the decision of cutting back 2 games on the day? Were they expecting a lot of drop-outs.
I think they could have made the decision a little earlier. Other than that great week-end...........except...hell I hate the humidity....
Cheers
Tony
P.S good to see some old faces there too.....Don Brown....Tony Rodderick.....and Wassa....haven't seen for awhile....Great stuff!!
Down the Road
New Member
Question?
How does the condition be like a reverse block?
How does the condition be like a reverse block?
rychenroller
Active Member
All lane patterns taper from edge to middle (from small amounts of oil "outside" to more in the "middle")
This taper has a ratio value...generally the higher the ratio from oil in the outside and middle track areas to the middle of the lane, the easier the pattern. A reverse block is the reverse of this taper. You generally see it after a lot of games. So basically on a reverse block, if you throw the ball in the middle, it hooks, if you throw the ball outside it sits.
This taper has a ratio value...generally the higher the ratio from oil in the outside and middle track areas to the middle of the lane, the easier the pattern. A reverse block is the reverse of this taper. You generally see it after a lot of games. So basically on a reverse block, if you throw the ball in the middle, it hooks, if you throw the ball outside it sits.
wchester
Bowling Tragic
It wasn't that many years ago when having nine bowlers average over 200 ( approx. 12% of the field) in an Australian tournament would've been a good result. Today's bowlers are spoiled by the modern version of the game......No matter the condition, the best bowler still came out on top. Well done Warren!
Down the Road
New Member
So the original post from dockers, is this in reference to the whole tournament or just the last few games of the squad?
If it is just the last few games of the squad and the oil has moved around/been removed from the lane, thought this was just part of the game.
Is this correct?
If it is just the last few games of the squad and the oil has moved around/been removed from the lane, thought this was just part of the game.
Is this correct?
Risking offending everyone I must be live on another planet as it wasn't a reverse block, my only moves were left and the only time I couldn't get the ball back was when I missed released it and if everyone remembers back in the day that's what it was like. I bowl on a 6:1 pattern regularly and found the condition no harder and I average over 220 except I simply bowled bad on the weekend but I liked the condition as I didn't have to bowl over 30k's to get the ball down the lane.
To had further why is scoring the requirement of a good tournament? It was a competition and I was under the impression that people entered to compete against other bowlers and as a social event to catch up. If you simply want to bowl high scores then just bowl socially but as far the competition goes it was the most successful senior event I have bowled in. The scores were close, the result in the men's being decided by the last frame and the result evenly distributed by left and right because it's the first time a right hander has won in years, not to mention the huge score differences of the past with the winner averaging 240 and the minor place 100's of pins behind.
I agree about the selection and I see no reason why a roll-off wouldn't have been better and they needn't have re-oiled after 6 games and left it at 12 games, plus the condition would get easier as the house pattern would come through for the last 6 games which would improve the scoring but why is everyone so concerned with scoring in a competition, who stays to watch a 30 to 0 football game with ten minutes to play, that's a flogging.
Give the condition a chance because when you go back to your home centre your average will go up because of how hard you had to work on the weekend and your game will improve because you will become more accurate and execute the shot better. No sport in the world do you get better after reaching 50 so why should bowlers start averaging 240 after 50. My highest average in a tournament I won was in 206 when I was 51 and that I find crazy unless you feel bowling is not a sport and your OK with manipulating the result. But please everyone give it a chance because in just a few years many other bowlers will become eligible to bowl and Seniors are the future of bowling in Australia just because they feel the TBA doesn't care is no reason to be angry, since when has it ever cared.
If you want your bowling to improve then this will do it and the game can grow also hasn't high scoring killed off bowling world wide and it will have the same effect in Seniors eventually as well.
To had further why is scoring the requirement of a good tournament? It was a competition and I was under the impression that people entered to compete against other bowlers and as a social event to catch up. If you simply want to bowl high scores then just bowl socially but as far the competition goes it was the most successful senior event I have bowled in. The scores were close, the result in the men's being decided by the last frame and the result evenly distributed by left and right because it's the first time a right hander has won in years, not to mention the huge score differences of the past with the winner averaging 240 and the minor place 100's of pins behind.
I agree about the selection and I see no reason why a roll-off wouldn't have been better and they needn't have re-oiled after 6 games and left it at 12 games, plus the condition would get easier as the house pattern would come through for the last 6 games which would improve the scoring but why is everyone so concerned with scoring in a competition, who stays to watch a 30 to 0 football game with ten minutes to play, that's a flogging.
Give the condition a chance because when you go back to your home centre your average will go up because of how hard you had to work on the weekend and your game will improve because you will become more accurate and execute the shot better. No sport in the world do you get better after reaching 50 so why should bowlers start averaging 240 after 50. My highest average in a tournament I won was in 206 when I was 51 and that I find crazy unless you feel bowling is not a sport and your OK with manipulating the result. But please everyone give it a chance because in just a few years many other bowlers will become eligible to bowl and Seniors are the future of bowling in Australia just because they feel the TBA doesn't care is no reason to be angry, since when has it ever cared.
If you want your bowling to improve then this will do it and the game can grow also hasn't high scoring killed off bowling world wide and it will have the same effect in Seniors eventually as well.
