How much of an issue is "Blocked Lanes"

[willey]

So how big an issue is Blocked Lanes, none what so ever. Why? because you only have to look at the entries in the Womens SPC to realise the % of top Women bowlers in the Country is non existent, therefore the Centres only have to cater for thier own clientel, nobody is bowling tournaments anymore, especially the Women, this was happening years ago before the Blocked Conditions.

willey.

 

[BELMO]

Blocked lanes have been around for many many years.....dont worry about that, its just now new powerful bowling balls kick the 5 and the 10 out alot more often.

Blocked lanes are a problem, and so is the equipment changes, but i think everyone is looking for a drastic change in scoring pace.......thats not what we should be doing.

Nobody wants their house shot to become impossible, but to have a condition where bowlers are shooting massive scores on a regular occurance should be SLOWED DOWN a touch.

Make 200 possible, but 225 HARD.

As a bowler, i love to bowl 300's, but i love to bowl a 300 when noone else does it on that day/event.
When i do it and so do 10 others, it be littles my achievment.

I have no problems with guys bowling 300's or 800's if that makes them happy, but i dont like it when it happens every week.
Bowlers need goals!!! What happens to these players if they achieve their goals quickly in their bowling careers???
Whats left to drive them to want to get better???
(and im talking about league players, not tournament bowlers)
Bowling balls have not helped in the matter, but i dont care what kind of ball is in your hand, i dont care how good it is, if the pattern your bowling on makes you work to hit a target, that ball will only help you strike when you hit the pocket!!!!

my point is.........DONT KILL THE HIGH SCORES, slow them down a touch!

Jason Belmonte

 

[Hooligan]

Due to a long time away from bowling, and bowling nothing but league and the Total Circuit in the 7 months I've been back, I consider myself to be an expert on the subject of the league hack. I throw 200+ games left, right and centre with my 4 game showing once a week. I stand the same place every time and adjust speed, timing, hand position etc, until I find a way to hit between 2nd and 3rd arrow and get to the pocket. Then I ***** that the pins and kickbacks are crap if I don't carry. But then the realization comes that maybe I'm just not throwing the right shot to strike every time.

As mentioned I have bowled a few tournaments and have had to make drastic changes to my shot. I cashed twice, then went over the card at Caboolture, to miss cashing. I then averaged 178 at Toowoomba because I was useless and need more lane time (and some equipment that finishes on carry down). I watched other bowlers score plenty while I didn't. I know I threw the wrong shot on the wrong line with the wrong ball. I know I need to fix my shot to achieve better results. I know this involves pratice. I know the adjustments, wrist positions, timing changes, etc required. How? Because I am educated bowler.

To the educated bowler, they know why they score 200+ at home, they may not care and never compete away from home. Some will, and except that 200 is a mammoth score in many centres.

The point of all my drunken ramblings is that, maybe ditches aren't the issue, maybe making hacks realize that comparing themselves to the rest of the field is more important than the actual scores. Educating bowlers that think they are good, so that they understand that until they beat the likes of George, Carl, Brando, (can you tell I'm from QLD????), and Jason Walsh (coming up here, winning on our circuit, not fair) they really aren't a pinch of you know what.

Point is, for me the condition doesn't matter so much. What matters is, do you know what your doing? Do you know why you didn't strike? Are you performing better than most or worse than most? Do you know how to improve?

Problem is most people don't like bad news or being educated......

Thanks for reading this far.

 

[akdefl]

u? late 60s umm 30/40 years ago? that is the point that we are trying to make the top hat or the crown are wrong/old laying harder patterns 4 the younger or up comming people would help the sport a lot more than laying these patterns/ditch
am i wrong??

A true crown is not a ditch. Far from it. It is closer to a flat pattern and therefore little area to shoot. Bad crowns are too flat and can turn into a reverse block.

I am all for tougher lane conditions. I believe that they can be good, however, what good is it putting down these patterns when we don't have the support of coaches and people that can actually help the kids especially? I am not saying at all that there is no-one. There are some good coaches out there, that know what they are doing. But to put harder conditions down will create a massive frustration to a lot of bowlers, and they would more than likely turn their backs on the sport, rather than try and fix the problem at hand.

Blocked lane conditions, i still don't believe that they are the biggest problem around. From watching a few tournaments in the last few years, i believe that a lot of bowlers sparing abilities a more of a problem than blocked lanes. This is still the number one issue that the fringe bowlers should be tackling more than anything else. Worry about your sparing game, when you get that good and shooting more than say 85-90%, then worry about the lanes being to easy. The way i see it, it doesn't matter how easy a lane is, if you miss a 10 pin, you just cost yourself 21 pins.

Heres another question for all. How many people rather than complain about "blocked lanes" being to easy and such, will then play the lanes in a lot of different areas to try and find a spot that is going to make them play consistantly and grind out to shoot decent scores?
i think it was brian voss that wrote an article on this, and this is what he would do if he was to come across this sort of thing. Why not, if things are too easy for you, make them harder. Find part of the lane that is less forgiving, and play that.

 

[willey]

I agree with Belmo as far as High Scoring to a point, I like to see High Scores bowled by good Bowlers.

What I don't like is the talk of Tricking up the lanes to cut down the Scores, it makes no sense, you could actually be stopping the Best Bowler from Scoring and help someone who's style suits the same Condition.

As one who has been Conditioning Lanes for 30+ years I believe that the lanes have to be walled to counter the effect the Reactives have in ripping the Conditioner off the lanes. By this I mean, if you had a flat condition this would cause a hole in the Condition from the Balls as a Tournament was Bowled, this would than create an erratic area unable to be bowled on as every lane would deteriorate at a different pace and a different area depending on who bowled before and what piece of equipment they used. Than you also create an Out-of-Bounds out wide.

With a Wall everybody is forced to bowl in the same area, this causes the wall to slowly move in as the Tournament rolls on. If the Condition is Flat, to keep away from the eratic area you must bowl further inside or out wider, both reducing the preferred Strike Angle.

So I believe the Reactives have Created thier own Monster and thier is no other answer than to Go With The Flow. All Hail the High Scores.

Trick or Treat
willey

 

[Deadman Inc]

I'd like to bring up an idea Belmo had in another thread regarding Bronze, Silver and Gold league shots. Phluff also touched on the idea.

Bronze level (easy, house pattern) - All high games and achievements are recorded under the Bronze Level pattern. Eligible awards - Patches and Certificates

Silver Level (sport conditions) - All high games and achievements are recorded under the Silver Level pattern. Eligible awards - Patches, Certificates and Plaques

Gold Level (National/International tournament conditions) - All high games and achievements are recorded under the Gold Level pattern. Eligible awards - Patches, Certificates, Plaques, 300 game ring, cash prizes.

A national guideline can be put in place for each lane condition level (used both in leagues and tournaments). Every 300 game bowled can then be sanctioned under a particular level it was bowled on.

If 10 people bowled 300s in 1 tournament on a Bronze level condition, it wont so much damage the credibility of bowling a perfect game, and if a bowler bowls a 300 on a silver or gold pattern, they should receive the recognition they deserve for achieving a perfect game on a difficult pattern and takes away the gloss of a once a week league bowler fluking a 300 on a ditch. At the moment if a bowler bowls a 300 game on a ditched up house condition compared to a bowler bowling a 300 game on a tough tournament condition, it makes no difference in the record books and both achievements are treated equally when 1 had to work a lot harder than the other.

I think we may as well accept the fact that blocked lane conditions are here to stay and most centres are going to dish out ditches to most leagues. So I think the condition levels will help with the integrity of our sport as well as bowlers inflated egos.

Also all this talk about how the modern bowling ball has had a negative impact on our sport, well I disagree. Compared with other sport, technology has had played a major part with sporting equipment. Technology has improved gold clubs, cricket bats, footballs etc to increase performance, so why not bowling balls?? The bowling balls used today has kept us up with modern day equipment of other leading sports. I reckon it would be a bad image on bowling if we still used old ugly urethanes.

 

[akdefl]

I'd like to bring up an idea Belmo had in another thread regarding Bronze, Silver and Gold league shots. Phluff also touched on the idea.

Bronze level (easy, house pattern) - All high games and achievements are recorded under the Bronze Level pattern. Eligible awards - Patches and Certificates

Silver Level (sport conditions) - All high games and achievements are recorded under the Silver Level pattern. Eligible awards - Patches, Certificates and Plaques

Gold Level (National/International tournament conditions) - All high games and achievements are recorded under the Gold Level pattern. Eligible awards - Patches, Certificates, Plaques, 300 game ring, cash prizes.

A national guideline can be put in place for each lane condition level (used both in leagues and tournaments). Every 300 game bowled can then be sanctioned under a particular level it was bowled on.

Yeah, good point, but one question, who will police it? Who will make sure that the patterns are being put down properly, meaning when a silver level is supposed to be down, who's going to stop them from putting the bronze down?

Also all this talk about how the modern bowling ball has had a negative impact on our sport, well I disagree. Compared with other sport, technology has had played a major part with sporting equipment. Technology has improved gold clubs, cricket bats, footballs etc to increase performance, so why not bowling balls?? The bowling balls used today has kept us up with modern day equipment of other leading sports. I reckon it would be a bad image on bowling if we still used old ugly urethanes.

Yeah, i hate bringing golf up, but they made the golf ball do amazing things aswell, but the R&A had the balls (no pun intended) to stand up and put a stop to it. They have just also brought in a new rule for 2008 which will make a lot of drivers illegal in competition play next year. Its to do with the springyness(?) of the face of the drivers. Once again, they had the balls to put a stop the certain equipment taking away certain skill levels, and i applude them.

 

[Deadman Inc]

Yeah, good point, but one question, who will police it? Who will make sure that the patterns are being put down properly, meaning when a silver level is supposed to be down, who's going to stop them from putting the bronze down?

Good point. TBA could put the national guideline in for next year and every accredited league has to put in what level condition they wish to bowl on for the season. I know most leagues get what their given so 80-90% of leagues will be bowled on the Bronze level, with only sport leagues bowling on silver and gold level conditions. It wouldn't be too hard to police the condition levels for tournaments. Sports league are the way of the future and within a few years I'd like to see sports leagues bowled in every centre and the opportunity for all bowlers to bowl on silver and gold patterns

 

[akdefl]

Good point. TBA could put the national guideline in for next year and every accredited league has to put in what level condition they wish to bowl on for the season. I know most leagues get what their given so 80-90% of leagues will be bowled on the Bronze level, with only sport leagues bowling on silver and gold level conditions. It wouldn't be too hard to police the condition levels for tournaments. Sports league are the way of the future and within a few years I'd like to see sports leagues bowled in every centre and the opportunity for all bowlers to bowl on silver and gold patterns

Another 2 qestions. And please don't think that i am just directing these at you Deadman, this is for everyone that supports this idea.
1. What happens when, and we have seen it this year, 3/4 of the league is un-regestered bowlers, yet the league president and a few of the bowlers want a silver lane condition? Becuase they are un-regestered bowlers, does this mean that they wouldn't have a say in it?

2. I know other techs will say the same thing. What happens if say on a busy league night the 2 leagues at 6:30 want bronze and the 2 leagues at 8:30 want silver? Would bowlers be willing to have to wait for upto an hour? What sort of logistical nightmare does this create for the tech/center/league. This could also have a massive impact on the social bowling side of things. This also raises a subquestion now.
2a. Once again, i know of some league presidents that always crack it about lane conditions, how many of the leagues that bowl on the same level condition after the earlier league, will then request a re-oil, because why should the other leagues get fresh conditions and not us??

It will be too hard to do. The only way i can see anyone being happy in the centers would be to have bronze down on a monday, tuesday, thursday etc, silver on the other days and set your leagues up to suit, but then people wouldn't want to switch days for certain reasons.

Also, just becasue the TBA set out a guide line for lane conditions, donesn't mean that it will be followed. After all we have a lot of experts here in the subject and over the last few years that have bowled in tournaments where they know that the lane pattern was not to TBA guidelines.

 

[wchester]

Also, just becasue the TBA set out a guide line for lane conditions, donesn't mean that it will be followed. After all we have a lot of experts here in the subject and over the last few years that have bowled in tournaments where they know that the lane pattern was not to TBA guidelines.

How true! If we can't trust the Sport's governing body to stick to it's own rules, what makes one believe that all the proprietors will be above board and actually lay down the condition that they say is gold or silver, and not try and sneak in an easier shot "for the sake of keeping their bowlers happy"

Also...how in the world do you regulate the three levels of lane conditioning to the bowls who are still using wick oiling machines.

 

[Deadman Inc]

On Wednesday night at AMF MtGravatt in Brisbane, the lanes are oiled in the afternoon before a 6pm teams league, then re-oiled again for my league that is scheduled to start at 8pm. This is a 30 lane centre and 30 lane league and sometimes we have to wait up to a half hour (mostly around 15mins) for the lanes to be oiled before we can start. It doesn't bother most of the bowlers knowing we'll be bowling on fresh oil.

Say a national guideline is brought in. Every league will be based on a Bronze level condition unless it's an accredited Silver or Gold level sports league. If bowlers want to bowl on a silver or gold level condition they should join a sports league. Leagues that want to sanction their league as a sports league and bowl on silver or gold level lane conditions, but have other leagues bowl before, same time or after them, it's their responsibility to organize with the centre about re-oiling or time changes to their league to accommodate. My league on Wed nights had to do this and its been a successful arrangement. If an arrangement can't be made between the league and centre, then they'll have to bowl on the standard Bronze level.

If there's a will theres a way for it to work. Most centres will more than likely have no leagues bowling on anything higher than bronze level, and other centres will have no more than 1 or 2. These days league bowlers are in their comfort zone and 99% of existing leagues wouldn't want to change their ditched condition.

 

[Phluff]

1. What happens when, and we have seen it this year, 3/4 of the league is un-regestered bowlers, yet the league president and a few of the bowlers want a silver lane condition? Becuase they are un-regestered bowlers, does this mean that they wouldn't have a say in it?

In the end it wouldn't really matter what level condition they bowled on, nobody would get awards as with 3/4 of the league unregistered, it wouldn't be a snactioned league. But as for selecting a condition, it would come down to the league working it out themselves.

As a bowler, I'm all for running leagues with tougher patterns. We have a sports league going at the moment, and I know that even though most of the bowlers are 10-15 pins under "normal" average, they are enjoying the challenge of the conditions and improving each week. Plus it's great to see Tonx get beaten by a girl with a 130 average

As a tech, I hate the idea of having to re-oil for leagues with a different pattern, but that's cause I'm a lazy bum! With todays oiling machines and the fact most leagues would be on average 18 lanes, it would only take 30mins to do the lanes, so if leagues are prepared to delay the starting time, it's really no big deal.

The main stumbling point, as mentioned in a few posts above, is policing the conditions. Not every centre is in the position we are and has access to a lane monitor, however all a centre really needs is the equipment to be able to take a tape reading before league. Then maybe the TBA or local associations could recieve these tapes and analys them. The USBC requires it for sports leagues and this hasn't stoped centres from running those leagues. In fact, sports leagues have increased over 130% in the past 12 months. I don't know of a single person in the industry who wouldn't love to see that scale of growth here.

In the end however, it would come down to an honour system, trusting centres are putting down the conditions they say they are. It would be up to individual bowlers to elect to their league committee people they trust, and for those committees to ensure the centre is doing the right thing. If they aren't, then find a centre that is!

 

[willey]

It's just too hard to comprehend or police a split level conditioning system, so it's never going to happen. Who could possibly have the knowledge or ability to do it, I know in the industry we even had trouble having our lanes sanctioned because of lack of manpower, just ask Peter Zambelis( Rambo 1) about the problems of having a high Score being ratified when through no fault of his or the Centre's the lanes were'nt measured.

willey

 

[Lefty Can't Carry]

Blocked lanes are not just a problem here in Oz, but worldwide.
Bowling Digital features an article(24/9/07) by John Jowdy, who says that the problem is also rife in the "good old USA" as well.

Many informed people have claimed that the problem of higher scoring is because of the reactive balls, with their greater hitting and hooking power. The oiling or blocking may contribute as well, but as we all know, unless there is enough oil on the lanes, the reactives won't even get past the arrows, but end up in the gutter.

The problem with special oiling for "Sport" leagues, is the extra time & mainly COST.
Unless the centre has only Sport leagues on that particular night, the tech needs to service & fill the oiling machine more times over a 12 month period, and this will be cutting into profits, and the "bean counters" who run the show, would not be in favour of this.

The solution to the problem is complex and multi faceted. One fix, will lead to the next, etc., etc., etc.

My idea, as somewhere to begin is..................HEAVIER PINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Over the past year or so, I have noticed that the pins seem to be falling over with just the slightest touch. At first I put this down to the pins being old, and the base of the pins rounding off as they wear. However, even when new pins were installed, the pins still kept falling over( although not quite as easy at first).

After watching the Tenpin Masters on TV at Barnsley, and listening to comments made by Chris Barnes, when he talked about the use of "Twister" pins being used there.
These seemed a bit harder to knock down, than the AMF "Series II" that are used by most of the AMF centres that I have been to.

I know that bowling pins are made to a standard, and the weight must be within a certain range to be approved.
But a few years ago, I noted on a PBA video I saw, the Pro's were using GOLD painted pins, which the commentator said were especially made for the tournament, and were heavier than the standard pins, and therefore harder to knock over.
The scores were still very good, but I put this down to the Pro's ability.
There didn't appear to be as much pin action, as we are used to seeing today, and the bowlers had to be more precise in their delivery and ball placement.

Now I know this is not the absolute solution................but we need to start somewhere, and to me, this seems the cheapest and easier way to begin.
Centres regularly replace the pins, so the extra cost of the heavier pins could easily be absorbed.

If one or two centres installed the heavier pins, it would be relatively easy to monitor the scores for their different leagues, by refering to "before HP"(heavy pins) league sheets, to "after HP".

That way, we would know if this is a step in the right direction or not.
If it doesn't work, then the centre is not out of pocket, as the would have been replacing the pins anyway.

 

[Andrew S.]

There is also an additional problem. How do you know that the required pattern has been put down until you start bowling on it?

Most Centres dont have the equipment to measure the pattern and if they did what would happen if their tapes showed it was not the intended pattern?

Would the Centre re-oil just for that particular Sports League?

 

[androooo]

Heavier pins will hurt women and kids more.

My solution is simple.

It's not the lanes or oil, it's the balls.

BAN RESIN!

 

[Easy Tiger]

Heavier pins will hurt women and kids more.

My solution is simple.

It's not the lanes or oil, it's the balls.

BAN RESIN!

Fair enough, but then you'd have to scale back volumes of oil because I'm pretty sure in general there's a bucket load more oil on the lanes nowdays than there was in plastic or early urethane days. And even then there is still the arguement about average league bowlers not being to throw free hook anymore with their big particle and resin balls on house walls.

And what would ball companies do? It would be the end of sponsorship for all but the very elite players, and the reduced revenue to the ball companies would ensure tournament sponsorship would suffer.

What would centres do with those expensive Kegels that they invested tens of thousands in then? What would Kegel itself do?

 

[androooo]

Who says you have to put out 100+ units with a Kegel?

Kegels were designed to put oil out "consistantly" from lane to lane

 

[Easy Tiger]

Who says you have to put out 100+ units with a Kegel?

Kegels were designed to put oil out "consistantly" from lane to lane

But it's also the volumes they can put out.

In all seriousness, this thread means nothing. All the talking in the world on here won't do any good, simply because it is up to the governing bodies of the sport to regulate the sport.

There hasn't been much evidence of that in the past, and the past is the best indicator of the future.

So what's TBA, WTBA, USBC, etc going to do?

 

[GeorgeF]

I totally disagree, blocked lanes are not a problem at all. Who cares if there is 30 300's in one night.? If I owned a bowling centre I would have the most ridiculous scoring pace in the country.

Bowling is a business, and the bowlers (majority) demand easy conditions, as a business owner, I'd deliver. There is no use posting over and over again about tougher more 'realistic' conditions because its not in the best interest of the centre and its never going to happen in this country. You got to remember you are trying to cater for less than 1% of the National bowling population, who cares!

I'm sorry, easy conditions are here to stay and with TBA not enforcing their own policy it shows conditions are not taken seriously by anyone. I averaged almost 250 for 31 games at the AO, thats a joke!!

Post all you want, nothing is changing........... I'm sorry but those are the facts