How Important is Accuracy?

[RobbieB]

How far down the lane are you targeting, Jim? I'm sticking to my guns - I cannot see any way anyone with any knowledge of the game at all can be hitting 1 board at the arrows and averaging 175. If you are spotting 2 feet down the lane, then that's a different story. 1 board at the dots is three at the arrows, and it gets worse the closer you target.

 

[RobbieB]

So, I see the ball just prior to, then on, and for a VERY short distance after it has passed over the small target area.

When I lift my eyes the ball is close to the headpin. I don't know how close, any more than I know the distances before and after the target board at the start of the shot.
I'll try and look tomorrow night and give some distances.
This results in my having NO IDEA what path the ball takes. I see it at the beginning and the end only.

That won't work in todays game. Lanes change so fast you need to watch the ball path to pick up what adjustments you need to make from frame to frame. Watch the ball from target to pin deck. Lifting your head after you let it go won't affect the shot.

Doesn't explain the spare shooting though. Are you solid at the line on the spare shots?

 

[jimcross]

How far down the lane are you targeting, Jim? I'm sticking to my guns - I cannot see any way anyone with any knowledge of the game at all can be hitting 1 board at the arrows and averaging 175. If you are spotting 2 feet down the lane, then that's a different story. 1 board at the dots is three at the arrows, and it gets worse the closer you target.

I know all that Robbie. My distance target is at the arrows. You can do what you like with your guns - it makes no difference to my target percentage. What the hell is so difficult to understand about that? I know about the bloody average. Read my last post properly.

Before this happened to me, I always was of the opinion that I could take just about anyone of any reasonable physical condition, and have them bowl, in a short time, an average in the 170s. That you only started to know something detailed about the game, after that.

Now - somehow, here I am, and you're a great help. The best you can say is,' It's not possible to do what you say you do.' Think what you're saying.

 

[Michael Little]

however saying 175 avg but only missing targets 2 times a game, you would be saying either you dont carry any shots in your games or are missing 5 spares a game which doesnt add up to the average person, no offence intended so dont burn me or anything lol - Michael Little



Michael, I still am having trouble being even vaguely polite. You are deliberately saying that I'm spinning some kind of bull****. The rage I feel is real, believe me.
Sure, I'm having great trouble with carry. I've changed balls - changed line - changed angle into the pocket - and leave 4 pins, 7 pins, both of those togrther and, in particular,4-7-9s a couple of times a game.
I know they are leaves from high hits normally. I get perfect looking strikes from what looks like an identical hit. I get almost NO untidy strikes. I miss most of the spares. Everybody has 'unlucky' games from time to time. Frame at a time it may appear OK. Good Hits - crook result, and at the end you find a 146 game - but only one - the 'bad luck' disappears. I KNEW this could'nt go on for months, but it has, and then I get some smart-arse who thinks it's funny and that I'm talking ****.
I see you've been on TVS lately in the 'State of Origin" thingo - s'pose it's all over now, but if it's not ask Jason Walsh if he thinks I'm a bull**** artist. Have known him a long time, and as I won't know what he says, he'll be free to say what he thinks.

How do I hit a target? Really not in the mood to do this thoroughly, but, I only see the ball for a limited time and at limited distances. Essential is a smoooth consistant rhymic, on balance approach. When I have released the ball, I am balanced on the left foot, righr leg out at rear, on balance, and I could stand there reasonably indefinately ( see my avatar )
This approach sees my left foot position in the same ( or close to the same) position each delivery.
I can't describe the next part exactly, but after I bowl tomorrow night, I will have made some mental notes so that I can be more specific.
Generally, I only see the ball for a limited time and distance. Firstly, I see it only for a short distance on the lane prior to it reaching the target board. By the target board, I mean both sideways and lengthwise. That is, a piece of board 1 inch wide, and about 2 inches long. I aim to put the centre of the ball track over that.
Next, and most important, I keep my head and eyes DOWN. For golfers, just like in golf - you won't strike the ball accurately if you lift your head to see where the ball is going to go while you're trying to hit it. ( or in bowling, deliver it) I perfected this over hundreds of hours of practice, in the '60s
So, I see the ball just prior to, then on, and for a VERY short distance after it has passed over the small target area.

When I lift my eyes the ball is close to the headpin. I don't know how close, any more than I know the distances before and after the target board at the start of the shot.
I'll try and look tomorrow night and give some distances.
This results in my having NO IDEA what path the ball takes. I see it at the beginning and the end only. This is why, a few of days ago I had Cameron watching and videoing my shots - so I could see paths, breakpoints, etc., so that I may be able to try to see why I'm going through this period of completely freakish non-scoring V/S apparently OK bowling, which you find so amusing.

Jim,

Not sure why you are cranky with myself mate, I never said you were full of sh*t or otherwise, what I said and you were happy to take my paragraph out of context is that when stating such statistics you do leave yourself open to some mirth or disbelief to a degree. People will have a hard time understanding that you are averaging lower than what could be expected after proclaiming to be highly accurate in hitting your target (again not having a go). Usually a bowler regardless of talent or otherwise that hits their target so often but scores low, has some other issues not going quite right in their game, reason why I mentioned about either missing a lot of spares, not carrying from the pocket well or a combo of both. Have bowled plenty of games myself where I have shot low scores but been bloody accurate and done as many things right in each delivery as possible, it is bowling after all. Every bowler has been there.

And by the sounds of the leaves you say you are consistantly leaving, you know you are coming up a little high in the pocket, so two instant options, keep the same delivery and move 1 brd left or release the ball the same as when you flush the pocket, if you are accurate to a brd or so, then it is the angle, ball roll, trajectory, breakpoint etc that is changing slightly, which can come from a myriad of things. Be interesting what you see from the video you took.

I never personally had a go at you or called you out to be a liar, certainly wasn't laughing at you at any stage, my "ouch" with a mad smiley and haha after it was in response to your angry post, as I had no comprehension you were aiming your post at me, didnt think my original post was having a dig at you, I don't need to ask Jase or Cam anything, I believe you, I know you old timers from back in the day usually bowled straighter than the young punks of today and accuracy was a must.

Kinda feels like you want to have an argument for the sake of it, I am happy to debate and discuss things, but won't put up with blind ignorance to what is actually written in the first place. I know how you bowl, I have watched and bowled with you a few times, you probably wouldn't remember though as it was a while ago. I have no idea how I am a smartarse and don't believe I have posted in such a manner. Even in my first post, I was giving myself what I feel is a reasonably honest assessment of myself, I am not accurate all the time or said I was some super duper bowler or believe I am above anyone else (not many things piss me off me more), never proclaimed to be and know I will probably never be that much of a dead eye dick. What I did say is what I try to make sure I get as many things correct as possible in my delivery, if I hit within a couple of boards of each other and the rest is in sync it usually works out well.

And I was being genuine in my question about your methods of targeting, there is no age limit to when you stop learning in this sport or anything in general, so yes someone else can benefit from someone else's system, knowledge etc.

Cut a long story short, aim your rage somewhere else because it certainly isn't warranted in this direction.

 

[Brenton_Davy]

however saying 175 avg but only missing targets 2 times a game, you would be saying either you dont carry any shots in your games or are missing 5 spares a game which doesnt add up to the average person, no offence intended so dont burn me or anything lol - Michael Little



Michael, I still am having trouble being even vaguely polite. You are deliberately saying that I'm spinning some kind of bull****. The rage I feel is real, believe me.
Sure, I'm having great trouble with carry. I've changed balls - changed line - changed angle into the pocket - and leave 4 pins, 7 pins, both of those togrther and, in particular,4-7-9s a couple of times a game.
I know they are leaves from high hits normally. I get perfect looking strikes from what looks like an identical hit. I get almost NO untidy strikes. I miss most of the spares. Everybody has 'unlucky' games from time to time. Frame at a time it may appear OK. Good Hits - crook result, and at the end you find a 146 game - but only one - the 'bad luck' disappears. I KNEW this could'nt go on for months, but it has, and then I get some smart-arse who thinks it's funny and that I'm talking ****.
I see you've been on TVS lately in the 'State of Origin" thingo - s'pose it's all over now, but if it's not ask Jason Walsh if he thinks I'm a bull**** artist. Have known him a long time, and as I won't know what he says, he'll be free to say what he thinks.

How do I hit a target? Really not in the mood to do this thoroughly, but, I only see the ball for a limited time and at limited distances. Essential is a smoooth consistant rhymic, on balance approach. When I have released the ball, I am balanced on the left foot, righr leg out at rear, on balance, and I could stand there reasonably indefinately ( see my avatar )
This approach sees my left foot position in the same ( or close to the same) position each delivery.I can't describe the next part exactly, but after I bowl tomorrow night, I will have made some mental notes so that I can be more specific.
Generally, I only see the ball for a limited time and distance. Firstly, I see it only for a short distance on the lane prior to it reaching the target board. By the target board, I mean both sideways and lengthwise. That is, a piece of board 1 inch wide, and about 2 inches long. I aim to put the centre of the ball track over that.
Next, and most important, I keep my head and eyes DOWN. For golfers, just like in golf - you won't strike the ball accurately if you lift your head to see where the ball is going to go while you're trying to hit it. ( or in bowling, deliver it) I perfected this over hundreds of hours of practice, in the '60s
So, I see the ball just prior to, then on, and for a VERY short distance after it has passed over the small target area.

When I lift my eyes the ball is close to the headpin. I don't know how close, any more than I know the distances before and after the target board at the start of the shot.
I'll try and look tomorrow night and give some distances.
This results in my having NO IDEA what path the ball takes. I see it at the beginning and the end only. This is why, a few of days ago I had Cameron watching and videoing my shots - so I could see paths, breakpoints, etc., so that I may be able to try to see why I'm going through this period of completely freakish non-scoring V/S apparently OK bowling, which you find so amusing.

The bolded section shows where the problem is.

Finishing "my left foot position in the same ( or close to the same) position each delivery" shows a slight inconsistency in your trajectory. You might hit the same board 9 times out of 10, but if your trajectory is inconsistent (and one board at the approach equals 3 at the arrows and 5-6 at the break point, depending on how far down the lane your ball hooks.

Now, I don't know you from a bar of soap, but I have seen enough elite players in my time, including professionals at the US Open, and only those guys have anything like the type of accuracy you claim. If you consider that an insult, then that is your prerogative. I consider myself a realist and having had over 30 years continuous experience, I have never seen anyone average that sort of accuracy.

 

[willey]

Jim, Big Daz has your answers, todays game, because of the high volumes of Oil in the middle of the Lanes, requires you to bowl a Straight Ball, at All Spares, for consistancy.

Therefore if you can hit 80% accuracy, with a Straight Ball, than you will give Walter Ray a run for his Money

willey.

 

[RobbieB]

Since you ignored the second post, Jim, I will make one more suggestion. Take a piece of carbon paper, and tape it across your target area with a blank sheet on top. The marks left will tell you whether you are as accurate as you think, and also whether the ball trajectory through the target area is the same from shot to shot.

Other than that, not sure I can help or even know what you want. Accurate bowlers don't miss single pins, period. If your second shot is horribly less accurate than your first, then you have an alignment problem with corner pins, and you don't leave 4-7's and 4-7-9's from pocket balls, so if they look perfect then you need better glasses.

I'm sure you won't agree with that assessment, but one thing I have come to realise over the years is that the laws of physics really don't care what you think.

 

[GeorgeF]

I"ll answer the original question.....

How important is accuracy?

Not as important as matching up your equipement to the condition at hand. This is todays game Jim, accuracy comes into play more so when the pattern ratios are very low but even then the 'matching up' part is just as important. I deem myself to be accurate but the reality is I dont have to be as I have good technical knowledge.

 

[jimcross]

Jim, Big Daz has your answers, todays game, because of the high volumes of Oil in the middle of the Lanes, requires you to bowl a Straight Ball, at All Spares, for consistancy.

Therefore if you can hit 80% accuracy, with a Straight Ball, than you will give Walter Ray a run for his Money

willey.

Yes, that's all true. I haven't explained myself well about the spare shooting. I bowl an almost straight ball at spares. I have trouble explaining it to myself, but I not only have trouble hitting my target board, but I also pull the shot either right or left. As I start my approach, I lose all faith that what I am about to do is right. It's all mental, and every time I miss, the uncertainty grows. I have difficulty believing I can't control it...but ??
Maybe the solution may lie in just stopping bowling for a time, then starting again with a clean sheet.
This is why I have such a ridiculus average, when I find the pocket close to every shot, but without a high percentage of strikes. Generally, I leave easy spares ( except 4-7-9s.), so should still score high 180s or 190s, with a few bigger ones thrown in.

 

[jimcross]

I"ll answer the original question.....

How important is accuracy?

Not as important as matching up your equipement to the condition at hand. This is todays game Jim, accuracy comes into play more so when the pattern ratios are very low but even then the 'matching up' part is just as important. I deem myself to be accurate but the reality is I dont have to be as I have good technical knowledge.

Yes George, I agree with all that and also with the fact that you are accurate ( more so than the majority of current top bowlers.) I'm not critisising them - I wish I could get the carry they can. I can't, and physically, It's too late for me to change.

Anyhow, I wish I hadn't started this discussion George. At least I know you've seen me bowl, and know I can throw big games with my now fairly useless old style release, using accuracy as my main effective weapon.

Now that the experts tell me that it's not possible for me to be that accurate, I really am in the poo.

 

[Ryan_E]

Sorry for not reading the entire thing, but for any ball thats left of the 6 pin, I throw the same as a strike ball with a move of target and feet. I find it difficult to throw a sraight ball at my spares.

Is this an option Jim?

 

[jimcross]

Sorry for not reading the entire thing, but for any ball thats left of the 6 pin, I throw the same as a strike ball with a move of target and feet. I find it difficult to throw a sraight ball at my spares.

Is this an option Jim?

I've thought of trying that Ryan. I'm a bit concerned about how oiling patterns will affect the breakpoints bowling across different areas of the lane. Not that I can do much worse! May give it a go.

Actually that used to work well on the old conditions, that is - pre-reactive balls, wooden lanes, etc, useing 3 boards per pin foot position, or 2 boards per pin target board ( at arrows.)

 

[Ryan_E]

If you have a clean ball and your speed lets the lanes take the ball at the backend, hopefully you will be alright!.

How much movement do you have on your strike balls? In boards.

 

[jimcross]

If you have a clean ball and your speed lets the lanes take the ball at the backend, hopefully you will be alright!.

How much movement do you have on your strike balls? In boards.

Don't know for sure - around 10 / 12 probably - Know that sounds funny, but I explained in an earlier post that I don't see the ball after it has left the arrows until it's about to hit the pins. That may be crazy, but......That's the way it is

 

[John_Velo]

Actually that used to work well on the old conditions, that is - pre-reactive balls, wooden lanes, etc, useing 3 boards per pin foot position, or 2 boards per pin target board ( at arrows.)

Hi Jim,

I had a lot of troubles sparing in league through the late part of last year. I am right handed.

After a bit of research I went back to basics and have made a major improvement. Biggest problem I still find is 3-10 split. I need to remember to line up for the ten pin but aim inside my normal target area a few boards.

I only use a spare ball for the 3/10, 6/9/10, 6/10, 9 and 10 pins. Everything else is my strike ball and line up. But, that is some times hard when you lay the ball down on target and it simply hits the middle part of the lane and skids 6 feet to long and you miss right of target. That really hurts.

When I forget my line up I go back and watch this video:

YouTube - Increase Your Scores With Precise Spare Shooting

Have faith Jim, if you can look up a little sooner at your ball path it will make it easier to see what is going on through the middle of the lane.

 

[Michael Little]

I've thought of trying that Ryan. I'm a bit concerned about how oiling patterns will affect the breakpoints bowling across different areas of the lane. Not that I can do much worse! May give it a go.

Actually that used to work well on the old conditions, that is - pre-reactive balls, wooden lanes, etc, useing 3 boards per pin foot position, or 2 boards per pin target board ( at arrows.)

Now Jim, don't go thinking I am somehow having a dig at you mate, wouldn't want you to construe anything (perhaps a little bit ), but I don't see a reason why the above principles still can't work. Perhaps take it on a different tact, play around next time you practice and find a comfortable spot to hit both your 7 and 10 pins, you say you throw a straight ball for both I think, so once you find a comfortable spot on the lanes where you are consistantly hitting them 9 times out of 10, why not use the above principles but in reverse, ie move back 2-3 brds in either direction to adjust for the pins next in line, see how you go, if something like this fails then perhaps get your peepers out and check the video, it could be something physical you are doing without even noticing. I myself throw a dead straight shot at 95% of spares I leave, if I am missing them, I know there is probably something physically I am not doing right, but that is just me.

Both George and Robbie in one of his posts are correct, matching up equipment with the correct angles is a key part these days, so not being entirely accurate isn't the end of the world, Robbie was correct to point out that although a bowler may hit the same board the angle or trajectory could be completely different on each shot and where George's point comes in is matching the equipment you have to the lane condition you are playing on to minimise any eratic ball reaction, play the percentages as best as you can.

I hope I haven't induced the rage again

 

[GeorgeF]

Jim

Accuracy is still important, it just doesnt rate high on the priority list. This is why the Throw-bot cannot bowl 300. In theory, the throwbot should be able to throw a straight ball straight at the 1-3 pocket and strike the same over and over. The reality is that the throwbot has never thrown a 300. Oil in todays game is the problem and key..... In the older days the transition of oil was almost non-existant, today it's the main part of the game, everyball you throw changes the pattern you just played on. Thats why matching up and finding balls that give you maximum 'error' range is a skill in itself.

I'm sure with the right ball and a little guidance in relation to the pattern youre playing on you could be averaging over 200 in no time. You need a ball caddy like me....

I am sure Cameron and Jason could help you out with optimum balls, surfaces and drillings.

 

[bowlrig]

Thats why matching up and finding balls that give you maximum 'error' range is a skill in itself.

Now that is a statement that should create some interesting discussion.

Rob

 

[Michael Little]

Now that is a statement that should create some interesting discussion.

Rob

Hi Rob, I think it is a massive part of the game today, I think you agree, what maximises your chances of carry, hitting the pocket and removing error margins, unless you are hitting a super tough sports pattern, most of the patterns laid at national tournaments allow for this thinking and ability.

I am sure most tournament bowlers today who travel with 4-6 balls, when practice commences usually find 2-3 balls within their arsenal that work, as George highlighted, the trick is figure out which will give best percentages and longevity on the condition due to movement of oil, conditions etc.

I could even relate it to people who have trouble with sparing (not singling you out Jim), but in general, those that hook their ball at spares on the left, or still whack the crap out of a plastic ball at spares, IMO are increasing their error percentages, ie hooking a ball to cover the majority of a lane pattern IMO is worse than figuring out your first ball shot, in essence, why make things harder for yourself?

This is something that has made George successful, he has a simple game, lower revolutions, but enough to carry off hits, and has adapted his game well with new technology and taken full advantage of it, low error game leads to less requirement to make continual adjustments as lanes break down (insert comment about left handers here). Simply put playing the percentages, matching up equipment and as he put finding his maximum error rate can be a scary prospect when he gets going.

Some days however you get there and have nothing and then you better hope you have your adjustability and accuracy hat on! (insert right hander comment here).

 

[bowlrig]

Michael,
I 100% agree with you.
George makes the best out of situations with the technology & talent he has and I take nothing away from his achievements.

Alot of bowlers these days still have no idea on tight patterns....they whinge & moan instead of trying to be more accurate. I am not talking of a single board but of just a smaller area.

I bowled a tournament 2 weeks ago, 5 man teams. Least volume of oil I have bowled on in years. Polished urethane, flat handed outside 5 & watch it roll up. More people bowling with U-dots, a couple of nitro's, heaps of naturals and grenades and alot of plastics being used.

All in all, accuracy to within a board, shot after shot, I personally do not think is possible. There are to many factors, many mentioned already, then plonk fatigue, approach, release & follow through inconsistancies......


Anyway, my answer to the original question.......accuracy is not that important anymore.

JMO

Rob