How do we fix entry numbers at ranked events?

[ratty133]

Hi all

Before I get started, I want to say that this thread needs to be for the better of our sport and not turn into another s*** fight because people's opinions clash. This is purely a suggestion thread that we can ALL use to help out our local ranked event organizers.

Ok. So I personally believe that ranked events need to be moved away from Achilles holidays and public holiday long weekends. With the economy the way it is, people still want to bowl and travel, but not have the ever growing costs continue to mount up. If we move the events away from these dates, numbers will theoretically increase because it becomes cheaper to fly.

I also believe that 3 day events are a thing of the past. 2 day events are plenty. Run 3 qualifying squads on the Saturday, with the last 2 open only to interstate bowlers, have your locals bowl in the early morning squad, and if numbers demand it, open up another squad on the Friday night again for locals only. This will mean that interstate bowlers can get the early flight on Saturday and still bowl that day, saving a nights accommodation, car hire, food etc.

My last suggestion, is that there only be one ranked event per month. This mainly is aimed at the open events, as we have 2 tournaments in may, yet nothing in April/July/September/December.

These are only a few suggestions and I believe the tip of the iceberg. Keep suggestions coming in, and ill gladly take the information to TBA and have them assist in the process as well.

 

[Docta]

1. value for money.
2. 3 in 1 or 2 in 1 payout if possible.
3. fairer formats. more qualifying games. drop pin fall into match play.
4. Get rid of cheque book bowling formats ie Melbourne cup format.
5. Tournaments should chase up more sponsorship.
6. Make in more welcoming to bowlers new to tournament bowling.

this stuff is all real basic things JMO

 

[nev25]

Simplified Entry system might be a help
i.e a webpage or a entry form on how to enter and qualify for the event

Yes I'm sure its all on the entry form or is it?
I Guess there's the problem not everyone see it or gets to see it

.

 

[Dougy]

Hi guys

With our tourny in Aug i did alot of home work on wat bowlers wanted and tryed to change it abit from ya same old same old, i feel i have csme up with some great options and new ideas to get it out to new bowlers or the ones thinking of trying a tourny out.

I also believe the amout of big tournamants we do have so its abit hard for bowlers to bowl in everything as we all know so we just choose what we can nd cant do. To be honest I think we as bowlers and all the TBA's should start targeting the leauge bowlers to get them in to tournaments, in saying that we gotta make it actrive to them to bowl in them.

Cheers Doug

 

[jayboybriz]

Well said Doug your tourney will be nationally ranked within a few years I am sure, it will be a showcase on the sandy strip of the Gold Coast and is surrounded by major attractions. I think that will guarantee entries every time!

 

[John_Velo]

Hi All,

I guess this has been said before, below is a revised content of a suggestion I sent to the TBA. It could be possible but would need to be run by by the bowlers or a comity of dedicated bowlers.

Thoughts:

There has been a lot of discussion on Total Bowling about how to increase numbers at tournaments and the ladies 8 pin start, among various other comments.

If I may, I would like to give my thoughts of what I would love to see each tenpin state run to improve bowling in Australia.

1: we need to reduce the cost of tournaments

2: I believe we need to make bowling more inviting for the league bowlers to become tournament bowlers.

A few thoughts on this:

A: have every state run 8 event sports series on various approved TBA / WBT / PBA patterns.These events are a great step up, 10 game $100 and the top 1/3rd field generally get there entry fee back plus some prize fund. They are great short events, maybe we are lucky in NSW for having a well run Sports Series, but the concept works.

I would like to see these events maybe increased to $120 and have a top three seed roll off after the 10 game, 3v2 winner v1.

run the events in both AMF and Private centres so the bowling community may share the events.

To invite the ladies and junior bowlers, give them 8 pins start and have the pins start reduce by 2 pins per event they place in. An example is an 8 pin start bowler wins they have 6 start for the rest of the events, if the win another they receive 4 pins for the rest of the season and so on.

B: have a scoring system for result that carries over for an end of year result, for a grand state champion.

C: nominate three, two day events for each state that are included in the state they belong to's series per state example for NSW, 8 sports events plus Orange Open, Bathurst Pit Stop and the NSW Open as the major.

Again the pins start included and carried over from results in the sports series.

D: once every event is complete have a TOC, Tournament of Champions, type event for the winners and points leaders from each state.

E: reduce the number of bowling balls allowed to be brought to a tournament to say three plus a nominated spare ball that may only be used for spares.

For other events that sits outside this series, they would be run as stand-alone non-points events.

I believe that a series like this could be achievable, it would need TBA's buy in to sanction and run the scoring system, be the gatekeeper if you like.

It would reduce the bowling costs per event and give a stepping stone for league to tournament with a yearlong series to work towards. attendance would be rewarded with point and experience.


Thanks for reading,

 

[Scotty R]

One thing I'll add to what you said Matt is that avoiding the long weekends for events will prevent headaches for the bosses between letting one travel for bowling or the other one wanting to take the time off to be with their family (or have a short trip away themselves). Also like what Docta said about dropping pinfall for matchplay given everyone a clean slate and equal opportunity to win once making the cut.

 

[Davey]

100% agree with moving ranked events away from the holidays etc. as everyone knows the costs of flights and accom increase a fair bit making it harder for bowlers who in reality aren't there for a holiday as such.
I do like the idea of dropping pinfalls for match play. Qualifying is the hardest part of the weekend and if you can get through that everyone starts again. Match play is a whole new tournament again in a way.

Having 1 event per month is a great idea. Would like to see 12 ranked (open) events each year inc Aus Masters.
It may then give more bowlers a chance to attend events more often. However may need to increase the min events tally to count towards end of year points.

Just my thoughts, hope they make sense

 

[Mistagear]

How about creating a Tournament Rating System ?

Object; To create a system where the best ranked event is the one which offers the best value for money and best prizemoney for competitors.
A byproduct would be a tendency for Tournament Organizers to want a higher rating and therefore offering better value to the bowlers than they might have otherwise.
Something like this.
Total Prize Money divided by Number of Bowlers based on...then
Multiplied by number of games bowled prior to finals..then
Divided by number of days for tournament ..then
divide by cost of entry $....then
multiply by number of levels prizemoney paid down to.

.........................
Each tournament is then given a rating score when TBA issues the sanction #
Bowlers can then easily see which tournament offers the best value.

eg; Tournament 1 $10,000 prizemoney / 50 bowlers = 200
Multiplied by 10 games to cut = 2000
Divided by number of days 2 = 1000
Divide by entry fee $ 170 = 5.88
multiply by payout levels 20 = 117.6 rating

Tournament 2 $20,000 prizemoney/ 70 bowlers = 285.71
Multiplied by 12 games to cut = 3428.57
divided by days 2 = 1714.28
divided by entry fee $325 = 5.27
multiply by payout levels 20 = 105.4 rating

This means, the tournament with more prizemoney needing more bowlers to compete yet having a higher entry fee is less likely to rate better unless it payed down further levels .

eg; compare tournament 2 above with one which all else is equal except it payed down say 5 more levels, would have a better
rating of 131.75. That would rate higher than either T1 or T2.
If say T1 was run over a single day, the rating becomes rated 235.3 and would offer the best value to bowlers.

PS, A better criteria for rating than what I have included could be worked out, I only used above as an example.
A rating system accredited by TBA would become the standard by which tournaments were conducted, giving TBA some ownership of Sport Bowling which it does not currently enjoy. This could be one small part of the concept I'm exploring on the "How can TBA Differentiate itself" thread

 

[Docta]

I just cant help but think we are looking at this from the wrong end. I mean we are looking at ways of making ranked events better, but better for who?. I may be upsetting people when I say this but half the field (myself include) in most tournaments are there just to make up the numbers. We need to start looking at this from a different angle.
If you look at most ranked tournaments its generally the same group of people competing. Its the same "small" pool of people that are keeping these tournaments alive. I believe we need to have a graded tournament circuit that good league bowlers would feel good about, and comfortable in entering. A graded circuit where they can gain confidence in bowling in a tournament environment with out feeling the pressure of competing against Australia's best bowlers. Their grading would be nationally recognised, almost like a national handicap system, a breeding ground for ranked tournaments.
Once a bowler is at the highest level of the graded system they should then be able to enter the ranked system. This I believe would then produce more ranked tournament bowlers which would in turn make the ranked tournaments better. I don't now how this handicap system would be managed or worked out but as much as I would hate to say it, it would need to be controlled by the TBA or a governing body. JMAO

 

[James Mc]

Hi All,

Just throwing it out there, but before we worry about the decline in tournament play shouldn't we worry first about the decline in league play? I think that is where our next batch of tournament players is coming from. Does anyone know a centre where junior numbers are growing and not declining?
The best years I have seen of tournament bowling was when league was strong and juniors were playing in every centre, and they actually had to bowl to make Shield teams, not just turn up.
Do you all remember we had kids like Belmo, Michael Frazzi, Matt Sophia, Chris Warner, Chris Slattery, and a raft of players from the other states cracking their necks to have a go at the big boys, and before them there were others (sorry Girls all I can remember was Jayde Flanagan in that era and she was kicking most guys behinds,but im sure there were more, like Kate Wilton now Mrs Pilko etc).
No disrespect intended towards those that have gone through the ranks in the time since then, but the numbers have been dropping each year since that time, and possibly even before then, we just didn't see it. And the result is now that we have fewer big boys in every centre and tournament for the few remaining juniors to look up to and kick their buts!

I really think we need to address to core problem before we end up with events structured only for the remaining talented and die hard tournament players.

That's my little rant, I know it is hard out there right now with so many things grabbing at the sporting and recreational dollar, but we did all this in the past without state training squads and all the expense that goes with it. Cost is certainly a factor, and for a junior now to move through the ranks and play for the state and compete at an elite level it is a very expensive exercise. Maybe these things all inhibit the growth of junior elite bowling?

Not sure about any of that, but would love to hear some opinions. All I know is that it is not rocket science to work out without junior bowlers and a growing league base we have no hope of growing tournament participation over the coming years, and any attempts to change that now may help in the short term but the long term result will still be the same. We simply need more Juniors bowling competitively, if we want a long term fix.

James

 

[Scotty R]

Yep James
I remember those days being a junior then was fantastic. We had so many exceptional talents then and rolling off for the ACT and Southern NSW sheild side was tough. Had around 30 juniors competing to make the team and I'll bet the numbers aren't anything like that now for most states. Here in Alice Springs we have one maybe two juniors that MIGHT put their name down for shield in the next year or so where in the past records for the NT there used to be 12-14 kids competing for spots.

My point here is that I agree with everything you are saying. Too much focus on solutions that are only a short term fix. I don't know how other places are dealing with junior recruitment but here we have coaches helping them whilst they are bowling league each week and we do everythin g we can to encourage them to take the next step and we try to avoid pushing them too hard or do anything that might have a negative effect.

Sadly it seems parents are not as willing to spend the money as we all know our sport is an expensive one. But the fact does remain if we cannot build our junior league base the decline in tournament numbers will continue and our great sport could potentially vanish in the end.

 

[FLOWER]

Quite interesting also in the Senior ranks that there are so many bowlers who had never bowled a National event before they 'aged in' and have come from league only background. Sad also that so many of the national participants and in particular the talented juniors no longer compete. In my humble opinion, the need for 'new' equipment every few months becomes the main focus of those who want to step up but just cannot afford league, practice and continual updating ... 6/8 balls for a 3 game league is the norm nowdays and more interest is shown in 'what' than 'how'.

A 'fix'?? Perhaps short term leagues - say 3 months - then pay out. Bowlers who recruit get a discount on the next 3 months league ... small after league comps. eg. 8 or more etc. 2 games ... cheap with a freebie meal from cafe, free mini golf, free whatever is in your centre for the winner. Advantage would be to get a couple of practice games added to the 3 games they bowl and to encourage a tournament type atmosphere for basic new league bowlers.

Juniors are needed but caution with expenses as the parents are paying! These bowlers are then lost in the new world of paying for themselves. Short league seasons may give new bowlers confidence to try something new. Downside of this idea - staff to recruit/organise/encourage/guide these newbies. The old time league world needs to move along with the times as do so many National events that have droned on forever.

 

[Mistagear]

Single Ball Tournaments ? Where only 1 ball maybe used in the tournament..for both 1st ball and spares. A lot of league bowlers who are reasonable bowlers and only have the one ball, almost never enter a tournament, this would level the playing field against the next level up bowlers who have graduated to hauling around large bowling bags.

Single day events, say 2 squads of 6 or 8 games, second stage a 2 game roll-off with the nearest qualifier for your final position 1 plays 2 , 3 plays 4 etc. (head to head finals adds excitement and satisfaction, why not give the whole field this extra fun)
Majority of Tournaments need to attract the "average " bowlers to compete because they are the biggest group of bowlers that exist, not the Elite competitors who are the minority.

On a more Elite level Tournament
On 2 day events,
Discounted entry for 1st 12mths anyone having not bowled an open tournament in last 3yrs or more(checked and verified at local TBA level )
Discounted entry for 1st 12mths any Junior or Female until they cash in top 5.
Penalty pins for top 10 placings in following events. Say 10pins reduction per game for 1st placing next tournament, down to 1 pin penalty for 10th placing at next tournament.
This opens the field up for all the entrants who pay the bulk of fees and never take most of the cash.

It's generally accepted that juniors are the future of a sport...but I note the numbers are in considerable decline at Junior Bowling Nationals ..
TBA quoting 80% increase in NSW member numbers due to the deal struck with GSTBA etc, but overall nationally numbers have not increased..So does this mean TBA had a one off increase at one area and a considerable decline everywhere else ?
Bowling looks like its in real trouble and may be close to tipping point...Someone better get busy changing the way things are done VERY soon