Hmmm, something doesn't add up.....

[Mistagear]

I've been known as Mistagear for quite a while, longer than the internet has existed.
In another life (motor racing) apparently I had a habit of claiming I had missed a gear as an excuse for a slow lap time. I inadvertently found it necessary to use the excuse far too many times because my pitcrew began calling me missed-a-gear, which soon became Mistagear..
Luckily there is no need for pitcrew in bowling, otherwise I would probably be AKA Mistapin.
However, to put those interested in political correctness at ease, my (other) name is Peter Brierley.... or Mista to my friends

 

[Troyza]

Bowling has had National Body since 1961(sure it went broke once, why not with past officials on the gravy train... trips on the Concord for God's sake), ranks up near Golf as a popular sport.
There are 1500 Golf Clubs in Australia and most are owned by members. Bowling on the other hand, has a huge social play to bolster incomes, can be played in the dark when golf courses are black , bowling is roaring when it's raining while golf has only puddles on their courses..
but
apparently Bowling's National Body can not see any possibility of bowlers owning a Centre, where National Championships/ Major Tournaments and Coaching Programs could be run as a centre of excellence. A place where the Sports Head office could occupy space or even a place where the Sport could be showcased.

If such a place existed, Mick's original question would not have been needed to be asked. The Nationals could be the envy of many sports, something that would in itself, attract more people to the sport.

The sport could start with one centre in Melb or Syd and the profits could quickly fund an expanding network of establishments in every capital city. A network that could set standards and influence prices over non-club owned commercial operations.
In my opinion, your National Body is pissing around shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic with their aims and goals, meanwhile genuine opportunities are ignored, decade after decade

There , had my dummy spit and feel better... anyone is welcome to take your best shot.

I don't know... Bowling centers are very expensive to run. A core problem with bowling today is how many centers are run by staff who don't actually know bowling. How can you provide a worthwhile service for insane prices when you don't know anything about bowling? (insane prices needed to make ends meet) Also, because bowling comes under the entertainment & activities award, staff members are paid poorly due to the amount of late hours they are required to work. If that's not enough, the industry is lacking technician expertise because skilled labourers are better off working in their trade rather than getting involved with pin setters & lane work. Instead, people are employed as 'pin chasers' who can fix trouble calls, but can't get their head around simple preventative maintenance programs because they lack interest in the sport & the job. Which creates further issues, & comes back to the original point - how can a worthwhile service be given with the current circumstances?
TL;DR - Whilst there may be some issues with TBA, I feel personally that there are bigger problems in centre that need to be dealt with first.

 

[Mistagear]

I don't know... Bowling centers are very expensive to run. A core problem with bowling today is how many centers are run by staff who don't actually know bowling. How can you provide a worthwhile service for insane prices when you don't know anything about bowling? (insane prices needed to make ends meet) Also, because bowling comes under the entertainment & activities award, staff members are paid poorly due to the amount of late hours they are required to work. If that's not enough, the industry is lacking technician expertise because skilled labourers are better off working in their trade rather than getting involved with pin setters & lane work. Instead, people are employed as 'pin chasers' who can fix trouble calls, but can't get their head around simple preventative maintenance programs because they lack interest in the sport & the job. Which creates further issues, & comes back to the original point - how can a worthwhile service be given with the current circumstances?
TL;DR - Whilst there may be some issues with TBA, I feel personally that there are bigger problems in centre that need to be dealt with first.

Surely the question is this, If commercial operators are able to run Bowling Centres profitably, why does TBA NOT have a plan to do so as well ?????
There would be considerable savings available to TBA , such as commercial renting cost savings, current wages cost also could be partially offset , lineage costs for National Championships as well as opportunities to hold National ranked Tournaments in-house. This would also greatly open up the major sponsorship opportunities with a permanent showcase facility for the sport.
I'm not privy to the break-up, the 2012 TBA Financial Statements lists Tournament Income at $718, 143. I can imagine there would be substantial savings possible if lineage and other costs were not having to be paid out of that income.
Reasons above and other benefits for coaching programs etc should readily create a need for the soprt itself to own it's own facility.
Seems a no-brainer to me and absolutely amazes me that, in over 50 years of the sport in this country , nobody in charge of the sport has seen need to do so.
Remember.... 1500 Golf Clubs and most owned by Golfers. Dont tell me it couldnt be done in Bowling

 

[amagill]

Don't they have a national training facility in the states? Was that built & owned by the USBC? I know Kegel have their own training center as well, but pretty sure the USBC have a national bowling stadium in Reno. I think it's a good idea.

 

[Ryan_E]

It's a great idea......... However, do we really have the bowling population to support a centre even close that?

 

[magpi17]

I think the subject has got a little off track here, I thought the original post was more about the prize fund split and amount and as I read it where is the actual funds going from the sponsors for the tournament. Personally I would have thought it may have been a bit more considering the expected amount paid in + the sponsers lot. If we want to attract the best we should be at least making it attractive for the best.

 

[Geoff300]

Haven't been on the site for a while, so am a late entry to the discussion. Steve, I've noticed before that whenever the demise of the ATBC is mentioned in any way, you come up with defensive reactions about the ATBC and / or critical comments of the actions which led to it's demise.
Let's be clear here. You and doubtless many ATBC honest, hard working functionaries were badly betrayed. They wern't betrayed by those who presided over the collapse of the ATBC. You were all betrayed by people above you.
How do I know? I was the one who removed the first stone in the foundations. How? -- By carrying out an investigation into missing money - some $3000+ missing from a local Association. The further my enquiries went, the stronger the smell.
I then went as a delegate ( don't remember the year ) to the AGM on the Gold Coast, where, after I opened the debate, more delegates queried the accounts, and the Auditors disclaimer. The matter 'exploded' from there. Proof of what Mistagear said? Probably not now. Plenty of it at the time ( including the Concorde ) I wish Roy West was still with us as the new body ( TBA ) sent Roy overseas as our representative shortly after the formation of TBA, and he was devastated about the things he uncovered, including the Concorde. He rang me on his return ( he and I had worked together to produce TBAs original constitution )
I don't think that anyone who ever had anything to do with Roy, on any level, would question his honesty and integrity, or his intelligence. As well as his wide bowling industry experience, being an experienced solicitor, he was also very aware of the need of evidence to back up assertions
You doubtless had the wrong thing done by you, Steve, but it was by insiders. If you must blame some 'outsider', blame me, but I'll still sleep OK at night.

Jim

Hi Jim

Glad you are back on the site

I have been around constantly in the sport from 1970 when I started bowling at Hurstville.

The big split happened with the then ATBC and GSTBA and the rot started, as I recall.

I also recall we had about 120,000 members back in those days and the ATBC had
quite a bit of money and assets

The reality is that all of that was lost and not by the members....

We had some very good people involved in the sporting associations back then, many of
those were Centre delegates, we have none of those now.....Now we have virtually NO support
for members , very limited member numbers and a huge lack of people willing to put their hand
up to help make a difference.

There are 2 groups of people responsible for the downfall of our once very strong Sport,
It is not hard to work out who they were.

Without a proper plan to get membership numbers up to a high level again the Sport will never
be what it should be because the TBA can't afford to administer it properly

From a business model perspective I have sent through my plan to the TBA to fix it. It will work
but requires the support of proprietors as well.... Sadly I Can't see it happening

Cheers
Geoff

 

[Mistagear]

Geoff, would be very interested in your model, if you care to, please send any part you are willing to share, to mistagear@gmail.com.

Magpi, Mick and anyone else thinking the thread has gone off topic, I'm sorry, but unless people start looking at the bigger picture, we'll be having the same subject reoccur year after year until there is nobody bowls at the (by then) non existent Nationals.

 

[Geoff300]

Geoff, would be very interested in your model, if you care to, please send any part you are willing to share, to mistagear@gmail.com.

Magpi, Mick and anyone else thinking the thread has gone off topic, I'm sorry, but unless people start looking at the bigger picture, we'll be having the same subject reoccur year after year until there is nobody bowls at the (by then) non existent Nationals.

The TBA have it, best left with them, not much use to anyone else

 

[Troyza]

Surely the question is this, If commercial operators are able to run Bowling Centres profitably, why does TBA NOT have a plan to do so as well ?????
There would be considerable savings available to TBA , such as commercial renting cost savings, current wages cost also could be partially offset , lineage costs for National Championships as well as opportunities to hold National ranked Tournaments in-house. This would also greatly open up the major sponsorship opportunities with a permanent showcase facility for the sport.
I'm not privy to the break-up, the 2012 TBA Financial Statements lists Tournament Income at $718, 143. I can imagine there would be substantial savings possible if lineage and other costs were not having to be paid out of that income.
Reasons above and other benefits for coaching programs etc should readily create a need for the soprt itself to own it's own facility.
Seems a no-brainer to me and absolutely amazes me that, in over 50 years of the sport in this country , nobody in charge of the sport has seen need to do so.
Remember.... 1500 Golf Clubs and most owned by Golfers. Dont tell me it couldnt be done in Bowling

I think it would be a great idea for TBA to have its own centres. I figured by members you meant every day bowlers - however I don't see me or anyone else in my centre standing up & opening a bowling centre anytime soon simply because it is too expensive unless you have millions of dollars. Unless TBA has this sort of cash, I don't see them opening any centres anytime soon either unless membership fees become as expensive as golfers club fees. (I think you overlooked that part)

This is where TBA needs support from proprietors.

Also, sorry for the off topic.

 

[amagill]

I think it would be a great idea for TBA to have its own centres. I figured by members you meant every day bowlers - however I don't see me or anyone else in my centre standing up & opening a bowling centre anytime soon simply because it is too expensive unless you have millions of dollars. Unless TBA has this sort of cash, I don't see them opening any centres anytime soon either unless membership fees become as expensive as golfers club fees. (I think you overlooked that part)

This is where TBA needs support from proprietors.

Also, sorry for the off topic.

TBA membership fees should be higher. What do people expect the TBA to do for them, for $27/yr from the average bowler.

What other sport costs just $27 a year to register for?

 

[Troyza]

I completely agree with you, & would pay what ever I had to pay to be a member.
However, do you see every single league bowler paying $400 a year to bowl league? We have a league in our centre which refuses to pay $30 a year for TBA registration, let alone a proper fee.

 

[Ryan_E]

I don't see them opening any centres anytime soon either unless membership fees become as expensive as golfers club fees. (I think you overlooked that part)

Apologies,

I play at least once a week in my local centre/s; 4 games for $18 (AMF). My local golf club on the other hand is ~$1,500 a year to be a member.
I already pay $936 to bowl every week (at a minimum).

Now into reality! {only taking into account game fees}
$16 on Tuesdays
$18 on Wednesdays
Total :: $1,768 per year

I will happily pay up to $1,500 for annual membership from a bowling centre with free bowling [just like golf].

**not to mention; with free bowling, you're likely to bowl more; which in turn will save you more money**

 

[amagill]

Apologies,

I play at least once a week in my local centre/s; 4 games for $18 (AMF). My local golf club on the other hand is ~$1,500 a year to be a member.
I already pay $936 to bowl every week (at a minimum).

Now into reality! {only taking into account game fees}
$16 on Tuesdays
$18 on Wednesdays
Total :: $1,768 per year

I will happily pay up to $1,500 for annual membership from a bowling centre with free bowling [just like golf].

**not to mention; with free bowling, you're likely to bowl more; which in turn will save you more money**

I wasn't talking about how much the games cost. Actual TBA membership is $27 a year for your average bowler, $67 for a silver membership.
People make a lot of noise that the TBA doesn't do anything for them. Well, what do people expect the TBA to do for $27 a year from the average bowler. No other sport has a registration fee that cheap. Why?

 

[jayboybriz]

In my experience the people who comolain the most about registration are seniors and very very social league bowlers. Don't kniw how to fix that

 

[Ryan_E]

From the USBC Website:
Welcome to USBC membership registration. Select an option below to get started. Maximum dues for standard membership are $21 for adults and $17 for youth. Sport upgrade dues are $15 for adults and $10 for youth with a standard membership purchase.

So we actually pay more for membership; however I believe membership is required as part of bowling any USBC Certified league in the US.

 

[Troyza]

Apologies,

I play at least once a week in my local centre/s; 4 games for $18 (AMF). My local golf club on the other hand is ~$1,500 a year to be a member.
I already pay $936 to bowl every week (at a minimum).

Now into reality! {only taking into account game fees}
$16 on Tuesdays
$18 on Wednesdays
Total :: $1,768 per year

I will happily pay up to $1,500 for annual membership from a bowling centre with free bowling [just like golf].

**not to mention; with free bowling, you're likely to bowl more; which in turn will save you more money**

Funny how a proprietor won't make any money off of this, if all of those fees go towards membership. Bowling centres don't run them selves, electricity & rates are not free, neither is maintenance costs.

I see how this 'might' work if it was a TBA owned centre, but with all costs going to running the centre, I'm not sure what would be left for tournaments & representative teams.

 

[Ryan_E]

Sorry for the confusion but the direction of my post was more towards a Bowler owned centre; TBA memberships would be another branch off this.

 

[jimcross]

Geoff, broadly, I agree with everything you've said. Sadly, I don't see much improving either.

Regarding members owning and essentially running a Centre? In my view, it would work, and surprisingly easily. Without going on and on, let me say that I've done both. Owned and operated both a Golf Course and a Bowling Centre. Well, that is, I was lessee of the Bowling Centre - didn't own it freehold like the Golf Course.
Chalk and cheese. The Bowling Centre is far and away the easiest and cheapest to maintain and run. It could indeed offer a reasonable return to members, either directly, or by way of vastly discounted usages. Very little affected by Weather / Pests / Diseases and so on. Machinery maintenance, etc much easier in Bowling Centre. Return on money invested greater. I don't intend to go on and on - just believe.

Have a look at my ex Golf Course http://www.tevenvalleygolfcourse.com.au/

 

[Troyza]

Geoff, broadly, I agree with everything you've said. Sadly, I don't see much improving either.

Regarding members owning and essentially running a Centre? In my view, it would work, and surprisingly easily. Without going on and on, let me say that I've done both. Owned and operated both a Golf Course and a Bowling Centre. Well, that is, I was lessee of the Bowling Centre - didn't own it freehold like the Golf Course.
Chalk and cheese. The Bowling Centre is far and away the easiest and cheapest to maintain and run. It could indeed offer a reasonable return to members, either directly, or by way of vastly discounted usages. Very little affected by Weather / Pests / Diseases and so on. Machinery maintenance, etc much easier in Bowling Centre. Return on money invested greater. I don't intend to go on and on - just believe.

Have a look at my ex Golf Course http://www.tevenvalleygolfcourse.com.au/

Cheap & easy.. Maybe 30 years ago.