For the rule book aficionados ...

[Fitzy]

Now to put a spanner in works ...

I have a couple of questions for the rule book aficionados.

1) Is it possible too, and if so, on what grounds would it be reasonable to ask to be moved to another block of lanes?

As usual the TBA rulebook does not (as I can see) qualify whether it is possible to, and on what grounds, move lanes.

I put it that if a lane is 'broken' or 'reasonably unplayable' (say mechanical failure) then it would be reasonable to ask for a shift to a working pair of lanes. The first sentence of RULE 323 sort of covers this though a statement of 'for any reason' is somewhat up for interpretation or conjecture.

RULE 323 INTERRUPTED GAME
Any game or series which cannot be completed on the pair of lanes assigned in the league schedule, for any reason, may be transferred to another pair of certified lanes in the same centre on the same or some subsequent date, or held over for completion at another time. The league officers will decide on the circumstances for re-scheduling. Any game or series so interrupted will resume from the point of interruption.

What if (and I am not suggesting foul play at all here) one pair out of a 20 lane centre seemed to have an 'unfair' oiling condition? Would that qualify as a 'broken' or 'reasonably unplayable' situation?

By 'unfair oiling condition', I mean, on all lanes bar the first block (1 and 2), a shot thrown (by a right handed hook bowler) that would go from far left and thrown far right, would hit the 6-10, whilst a shot thrown (relatively) identically on the 'broken' pair covers a coast to coast 7-pin.
I.E the oiling machine must have broken down and no oil was present on the right 15-20 (I mean the full 15 to 20 boards, not just the five boards 15-20) boards on just two lanes of an entire centre.

Could this be construed as 'for any reason'?

2) Is it possible in a league situation to request a re-oil if a similar 'situation' occurred in the future?

3) What is the ruling on 'remuneration' for any League Management Committee? Is it possible, if so what would be an 'adequate remuneration package' for any/all committee members?

4) Is it possible for a league bowler to ask for a full listing of monies into and out of a league? Including but not limited to any fund-raising activities?

Honestly some of the things I have seen and heard happen this year is appalling, no wonder a lot of people I speak too are looking for a new sport to go to.

:surrender: help on any/all matters would be greatly appreciated.


Signed,

Very disheartened bowler.

Rhyss.

 

[Jasonguru]

I'll have 1st crack at trying to answer some of this and help ya out.

It is possible to request a lane change if there is an obvious difference in pattern or equipment damage on the pair you are on. That decision i believe is made with your opponent agreement and also a league committee member.

I dont think a "re-oil" is a feasible thing given time constraints of league play, when a simple change of pair is the most common sense approach.

As for renumeration of a committee, i think there is a clause to allow this somewhere but again common sense must prevail. These positions are voluntary and for a person to accept monies is just unethical.

As for your last question, ALL bowlers are entitled to request a schedule of league monies given to them and this is supposed to be arranged at the commencement of the league, however circumstances do change and the amounts do change dependant on individuals or teams entering or leaving your league. After all, it is youe leagues funds!!!

Hope this goes some way to helping answer your questions.

 

[wchester]

Rhyss..

Very interesting question and one which can probably should be answered only by the rules makers themselves, the TBA. Try contacting someone from the TBA board and get an answer from them. After all, that IS their job isn't it!

 

[RobbieB]

Speaking as a bowler and proprietor:

1: The rule does cover the situation, and very specifically.

The league officers will decide on the circumstances for re-scheduling.

Re-scheduling, in this instance, means bowled on a pair other than the scheduled pair. Any decision to move is at the discretion of the league officers, who must make a judgement as to whether the move (or, if no other pair is available, a reschedule to a different time/date) is justified.

2: That would depend on relationships between the centre and the league. We have reoiled on request at Kirwan. If there is an obvious disparity between pairs, no other pair is available, and the centre has the appropriate equipment, perhaps it could be done. The condition would have to be pretty feral to justify it, though - after all, both teams are bowling on the same pair and condition. Centres do have, IMHO, some responsibility to provide a reasonable quality condition, in exactly the same way that you would expect, for example, restaurant meals to be of consistent quality.

3: This is normally agreed to by the league. In my experience, only the Secretary and/or treasurer receive 'payment' - usually equivalent to their bowling fees, but sometimes a fee per person in the league. With the secretary work mostly being done by the centres these days, and a lot of centres effectively doing the treasurers job too as far as collecting and balancing the money goes, do you really have to pay someone to do it?
Note that this is usually set in the constitution as an 'honorarium', to avoid all the nasty side effects of the league 'employing' an officer.

4: Every bowler has the right to know where their money is going. In addition, it is a set responsibility of the league President to verify the social fund balance, each month IIRC. 'Verify' does NOT mean simply ask the treasurer, he is supposed to determine that the account balance matches that calculated by the Treasurer and satisfy himself that the calculations are correct.
This is the single most important duty of the president, IMO, and is also the one least likely to be actually done.
You should be able to request to see the books, or at the very least ask the President to verify the amount for you.
Generally leagues have a trophy or prize committee to determine how the money is spent at the end of the season. As a matter of course, there should be an accounting of disbursement of league monies at the end of the season made available for perusal by any member of the league. Unfortunately the ones that do actually do this are usually the ones that nobody ever has any problems with. And vice versa.

Hope this helps.

Robbie.

 

[GoTheCell]

I find it funny that someone even asked about moving because of the pattern.

I thought your opposition bowled on the same pair of lanes and therefor they have the same condition. Not only do you get what you are given and adapt to it but so does whoever you are playing against.

 

[Fitzy]

Thanks to the all who were able to keep on topic and give constructive feedback. Gives back some of the faith in the bowlers.

I find it funny that someone even asked about moving because of the pattern.

GoTheCell,

Whiiiiiiizzzz, boing. Missed the point totally! Good attempt though

Who said I was playing against an opponent on the lanes? Do you not have byes in you leagues? I purposefully did not give full details as I did not want to taint the questions with information that could potentially skew the constructive feedback away from what the rules actually are. I also left out other minor details that do not reflect on the question at hand.

Besides, it was not the pattern that is the issue here it was that there was such a huge variation of pattern between two lanes compared to the other 18 in the centre. I actually do know the cause and I know it was a mechanical issue. I also commend the centre and most of the league (bar one particular person) for understanding the actual issue and resolving it to my satisfaction.
All of the 'actual' details can remain to my knowledge only, as they too, do not reflect on the actual questions at hand.

Again, thanks to the people who are able to keep on task and answer the questions at hand in the best way that they can.

Cheers,

Rhyss.

 

[jockey]

Although slightly off the original topic as a long standing league treasurer by circumstance (original treasurer misappropriated league funds), I would strongly suggest that the President sign off on the League Funds book against the Leagues Bank book each week rather than just monthly. A lot of money can go missing in a month depending on the size of the league.

A league my Dad and sister bowl in recently had a presentation night without any league funds to pay out due to the President not asking to see the Leagues Bank book to ensure funds were being deposited.

I must point out that I get a small fee for performing the treasurers role but due to the lack of Imdemnity insurance for the people who hold League Executive positions I think this is acceptable. I like all treasurers also assume the risk each week of carrying around the League funds until I can bank them.

I know some Leagues have the bowl perform this task but then they miss out on the interest and are at the mercy of the bowl when it comes to their presentation time as to how quickly they can get their funds back and in what form (cheque etc.).

As to the original question yes it is entirely up to the league to decide in liaison with the bowl. You may want to ask why 1 & 2 were not oiled twice (assuming they were the first pair oiled) as is usually standard procedure in most centres to ensure the condition is layed correctly on the first pair.

 

[Animal]

current rules state, League treasury books to be sighted and signed off
by President WEEKLY-- and has been for quite a while.
Animal

 

[RobbieB]

Thanks Lawrie, couldn't remember offhand whether it was weekly or monthly, and was too lazy to look it up . We used to also ask that the President initial the treasurers book each month when the bank statement came in to confirm that they had sighted the statement and it agreed with the books.

Terry, a fee for the treasurer is quite fair if they are actually doing the treasurers job, ie collecting, checking and banking the monies each week. What I was getting at was that in many leagues the centre collects the money, does all the paperwork and banks the funds on the leagues' behalf, and the treasurer really has nothing to do except hand out the cash at the end of the season. In this case I think a weekly fee would not be appropriate.

 

[emmtee83]

In regards to the differing conditions, I had this problem in an Under 25's tournament 3 years back.

I commenced bowling 2nd game in a 6 game series after a lane change, only to confront a totally different lane condition to the rest of the house. It wasn't until my team lodged a protest, the TD got involved, and it was discovered that the oiling machine's oil tray had jumped out of its holder whilst conditioning the pair I was bowling on. The house was re-oiled (to the disgust of a lot of bowlers) but fair is fair.

My view: If one lane is playing adversely different to the rest of the house, it is not a fair condition, regardless of whether those lanes are only affecting only you and your opponent. You may be fighting for scratch/hdcp high scores or points, such as Petersen leagues, so effectively you are battling not just your immediate opponent, but the whole league of bowlers.

 

[Easy Tiger]

I commenced bowling 2nd game in a 6 game series after a lane change, only to confront a totally different lane condition to the rest of the house. It wasn't until my team lodged a protest, the TD got involved, and it was discovered that the oiling machine's oil tray had jumped out of its holder whilst conditioning the pair I was bowling on. The house was re-oiled (to the disgust of a lot of bowlers) but fair is fair.

Just a question, considering it was after the first game had already been played, did everyone get to start again? It wouldn't seem fair if one group of bowlers had battled it out for the first game on that pair, and noone else had to.

While maybe not to the extreme level outlined in your post, or in Rhyss' posts above, it is not uncommon for one end of a house to play totally differently to the other end of the house. There are some houses which naturally play different no matter what you do with the machine (Caboolture is one that springs to mind, with lanes 11-18 being from the old Clayfield centre I believe?) and in tournaments the same often happens due to varying factors. I remember Belmo saying the US Open was like that, going from lane 150 to 40 on a different level or something like that for example.

I also remember bowling at Richlands in league and tournaments over the years when they were still wood.. lane 1 would never hook for me unless I threw at about half speed, while lane 2 would hook like crazy. It was the same every time I bowled on that pair.

 

[emmtee83]

Yes, the whole field re-started...

I couldn't believe it when (back in the days I threw with one hand) I had a coast-to-coast shot! Anyone that knows me, knows I can't move it half a board with one hand! Something was definitely wrong.