Female division

[Michael Little]

The way I see it and one of the reasons I dont bowl anymore is that we are paying greater entry fees to earn less money than we did 15- 20 years ago. What is the incentive for women to bowl these days????? NOT MUCH.
By the time you add your entry fee, accomodation, airfare(most of the time) you might get lucky and break even if you win.
When your not making money or breaking even its not a lot of fun. Hence why we have lost so many women bowlers over the past five years.

Amanda

 

[Michael Little]

Or "dad" is happy to buy a new ball, but "mum" gives it away in sacrifice...

I think your probably right!

Amanda

 

[rambo1]

you might not be bowling anymore tournaments amanda but you are still the best going around by far, the only other female compared to you am putney BOTH FROM NEWCASTLE. in a few years georgya britton will be the best

 

[bathurst tenpin bowl]

I enjoy playing against the men
heading to the open in 2 weeks first ever tourney that i will be in a female div looking forward to it but still get a kick out of when you win against men lol
cheers julie

 

[willey]

Now it's starting to become obvious where the Answers lie!

We've had all these experts telling us that we should be reducing the number of Tournaments and only making Quality Tournaments, this is the Exact opposite of what is needed to Nurture the Tournament Scene in Australia.

Amanda has hit the nail on the Head, the cost of travel and Accommodation. Here in the Hunter we have Quality Tournaments like, OOP'S we don't have any, what happened to the Newcastle Cup, Lake Macquarie Open and Margaret Cole Tournaments.

How can we Nurture Women Bowlers if they have to Travel to another State, than when they get there someone decides that they need to Bowl on a Reverse Block with an Out Of Bounds just to keep them honest or Bowl with the Men who strip away any Condition put on the lanes because they all Bowl in the same area, thus creating a Condition that you need to have a lot of Hand to bring the Ball back through the 4th Arrow to find a holding area.

The answer is more local Tournaments, cheap and small but unfortunately in Newcastle the Proprietors have a Vision of Glow in the Dark and a Tournament would interfere with their Revenue, as well as them actually having to work for a change.

willey

 

[Susanne]

After all the posts on this subject at last someone has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Well done Frank.

To all those men who think that women want or need an 8 point start or will be happy to bowl in with the men - think again.

Most ladies like to bowl in their own division especially when they are spending the money on airfares, accommodation and entry fees and the more tournaments that are reduced to one division will see more women leave the tournament scene.

I certainly don't mind bowling against the men and contributing to their prize fund in local tournaments that have a reasonable entry fee, such as the sports series, but when I go interstate I would like to know that there is a chance I can get some expenses back even though on the seniors and adult ladies circuit there isn't much to go around.

Until the entry fees are less and sponsors give more I cannot see anything changing. Your average lady bowler just cannot afford to pay $200 to $300 to bowl in a tournament even if it is in her own home state.

Whoa - I think thats enough for now

Just of 2 cents worth.

Susanne

 

[BELMO]

Until the entry fees are less and sponsors give more I cannot see anything changing. Your average lady bowler just cannot afford to pay $200 to $300 to bowl in a tournament even if it is in her own home state.

Susanne,

Bowling largest sponsors are the bowlers themselves. Through entry fee's the prize fund can lift.
Its a catch 22 for everyone. (male and female)

Noone wants to bowl till there are bigger prize funds, but without the bowlers there will not be an increase of prize funds.

promotion and attraction to larger companies is one way to help increase prize funds.....but what will they get in return??

When i know how to get companies to love bowling Ill be the first to let you all know.

Belmo

ps- giving women 8 pins I dont think is the right answer. Men with lower averages than women will be at a huge dis-advantage.
So why help a minority to upset the majority.........
If women want to bowl with men, then they should bowl with us on the same level of playing field.

 

[rambo1]

actually frank you are WRONG about the newcastle superstrike bowls not wanting to run tournaments they asked me a month ago to run the superstrike newcastle cup & i advised them not to as the last one attracted only 40 bowlers after having 60 names with 20 dropping out & the prizemoney was good. we have sponsors now but why should we bother. some bowlers didn't come because i refused to get it rated as in my eyes the ratings mean s**t the selectors will always pick who they like to represent SO WHY WASTE THE MONEY rather put it in the prizefund

 

[willey]

Peter, one tournament a Year is nothing , we need to do it like Mary Flower in Queensland and have a series of Tournaments, they don't have to be BIG. We don't need the rest of the Country to compete, this is how the Tournament Scene will improve, this is how we Nurture Bowlers. Remember the Old Days, we had National No-Tap, Spring Triplex etc, other than the SPC and the Sydney Cup there was nothing else.

willey

 

[gwhiting]

I started this thread as I was concerned about the youth tournaments that we becoming combined.

I don't believe that this benefits female bowlers at all.

The youth circuit has been quite healthly for the past few years. There has been more male bowlers but the girls have been getting 30 bowlers bowling.

Last weekend at the Columbia Youth Cup the first cut was 32 of which 6 female bowlers made the cut. The next cut was to 16 and 2 female bowlers made this cut. No female bowlers made the last cut to 8.

There was 4 top youth female bowlers missing as they had national duties.

The question of bonus pins has been raised but I believe the girls would prefer to bowl against themselves.

In all other sports there are different divisions.

How would Wimbledon be if there was one division. No girls would get past the first week.

The Olympic Games would be real interesting having the girls swimming against the guys.

The answer may be that we limit the amount of events and have male and female only events.

Everyone is concerned about the future of bowling lets not make it worst by isolating one of the sexes.

 

[tonx]

Peter, one tournament a Year is nothing , we need to do it like Mary Flower in Queensland and have a series of Tournaments, they don't have to be BIG. We don't need the rest of the Country to compete, this is how the Tournament Scene will improve, this is how we Nurture Bowlers. Remember the Old Days, we had National No-Tap, Spring Triplex etc, other than the SPC and the Sydney Cup there was nothing else.

willey

How about instead of complaining about it, make an effort to get something off the ground? We did it in Victoria, and it worked Steve Cow did it in NSW, and it worked. Jase P did it in QLD and it worked. What's stopping you?

A journey of 1000miles starts with the first few steps.

Back to the topic.

Mr Whiting, as Jason said, it really is a catch 22 situation. There is only thing that can be done to break the cycle. Someone must obtain a substancial sponsor for the females in order to encourage more girls to bowl. The PBA did it last year, and ran a cameo circuit during certain PBA events, and the rest of the season, the girls competed against the guys.

Perhaps a possible solution for the girls is more tournaments like the Vic150. That event grows each and every year, as it gives a chance for handicap bowlers to bowl with their bowling idols, as well as gives up and comming bowlers like your daughter the chance to get in some real competitive experience against the best this country has to offer.

 

[JWhitty]

How do people feel about bowling in "handiscratch" events?

handiscratch - an event where all bowlers bowl in a handicap and scratch division at the same time. Intended to bring lower average bowlers who can't compete in scratch events in the door, and still give them a chance at walking out with something, while NOT taking away from the scratch prizefund.

We had a league here that ran that, which seemed fairly successful.

 

[rambo1]

tonx, no disrespect to your comments mate but you go try go find a sponsor in this day & age, the only reason some of the youth tournaments seem to be successful is because of qubica amf (glenn rowland great guy) if he pulls the plug it will all end.

 

[tonx]

tonx, no disrespect to your comments mate but you go try go find a sponsor in this day & age, the only reason some of the youth tournaments seem to be successful is because of qubica amf (glenn rowland great guy) if he pulls the plug it will all end.

Have you tried to find a sponsor "in this day and age?" have you physically called businesses that could benefit from exposure in this situation? DO you have any idea on what sponsorship is?

Until you can tell me you have, don't comment on how difficult it is to gain sponsors. It is only difficult because no one wants to get off their asses and do things, they just simply want to whinge about how terrible things are.

Sponsorship is ADVERTISING. Name 1 successful company that doesn't advertise.

How hard is it to gain sponsorship? Ask Doriana about how much she raised for the Australian Youth team recently....

Spend a day representing a local tournament, calling local businesses with a pitch on how their sponsorship for a tournament will benefit them. If you can find a genuine reason as to why a sponsor will benefit from giving money to an event, you will find it easy to gain sponsorship. Go meet a couple of local businesses, and ask them if together you can work something out that benefits them.

If you, or no one else wishes to attempt this, then it's not "bowlings" fault it can't get any cashflow...

 

[rowds]

while it is difficult to obtain sponsorship in today's world its not impossible! Just requires a little bit of a proactive approach to the businesses in getting accross how they are going to benefit from giving you sponsorship.

 

[willey]

Tonx, Peter has run Tournaments, he ran the Margaret Cole for a number of years, even when Maitland was an independent Centre, he ran the Lake Macquarie Open for a couple of years. He knows about sponsors and has been able to acquire them. Unfortunately the many years that Bowling Centres have not been Advertising means they have no window into the World of Newspapers or Heaven forbid TV, therefore coverage of your Tournament becomes non existent, nothing for nothing in this World. He knows the work involved to run a Tournament and the Stress, he had his Stroke during the Margaret Cole , this was probably because of the Stress involved in running the Tournament, ( or maybe it was he averaged 213 and missed the cut).

Still I believe we have to think SMALL, start all over again than build from there. The Grand Prix Series did not happen over night, in the beginning it was owned by individual Centres and the belief of the Manager and his Staff that Built the events that were to become the Grand Prix Series, some Centres couldn't run a Chook Raffle, the good one's were able to bring in the Sponsors, they worked very hard, ran Chook Raffles to build revenue for the Tournament, hung the Sponsors Signs all over the Centre, ran Sweepers for entries into the Tournament etc,etc, etc.

The alternative will not happen, I can see it now, we only run 1 Major Tournament, that will be run in conjunction with the Olympics, like every 4 years, we won't call it the SPC, because that is Stuffed, we will run it with Men, Women, Juniors and Seniors all Bowling together(we have to get the numbers somehow).

Think about it.

Frank.

 

[rambo1]

thank you frank for your support, as i said before tonx you go find a sponsor to support a tournament for the ladies with good enough prizemoney so they can support it & then come on this site & tell us how you did it then we can try to do as you did, as i said before i was asked to do a tournament had sufficient prizemoney but declined as the entries were poor the previous year the only good thing about it all the top bowlers participated & was won by frawls

 

[Michael Little]

WELL AT THE MOMENT I DONT WANT TO BOWL LEAGUE LET ALONE A TOURNAMENT IN A NEWCASTLE BOWLING CENTER....
I KNOW THEY SAY THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO BOWL ON ALL CONDITIONS BUT IT HAS GONE BEYOND A JOKE, I HATE MONDAYS BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO BE UP AGAINST EVERYTIME I WALK ON THE LANES.
THE APPROACHES ARE ALWAYS SLOW BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE EVER BEEN TO A NIGHT CLUB, DO YOU REMEMBER HOW STICKY THE DANCE FLOOR IS AT CLOSING TIME? I'M NOT KIDDING WHEN I SAY THAT IS HOW THE APPROACHES ARE IN SCHOOL HOLIDAYS. I HAVE EVEN THOUGHT OF TAKING MY EASY SLIDE AND PATTING IT DIRECTLY ONTO THE APPROACH EVEN AFTER THEY HAVE TRIED TO CLEAN THEM.
IF THATS NOT ENOUGH TO CONTEND WITH THE LANES HAVE BEEN PRETTY ****TY ALSO.
YES WE HAVE SPOKEN TO THE POWERS THAT BE AND THEY SAY THINGS WILL BE DONE AND MAYBE IT CHANGES FOR A WEEK OR TWO BUT THEN JUST GOES BACK TO THE SAME OLD CRAP. I REALLY THINK THEY SHOULD START LOOKING AFTER LEAGUE BOWLERS A LITTLE BETTER OR THEY ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY.

WELL I HAVE HAD MY SAY, I'M SURE PETER AND A FEW OTHERS WILL BE FEELING MY PAIN.LOL......

AMANDA

 

[willey]

Amanda you don't have to SHOUT, you're right about the approaches, I was thinking about bowling at Warners Bay when I left Mayfield but I couldn't slide at all, than I tried Mayfield when they Re-Furbished but again I couldn't slide, next time I will wear a Sock.

Frank

 

[akdefl]

Just out of curiosity, it is sort of away from the initial topic, but not hugely.
I problem that is out there of course is the issue of the amount of tournaments, but also catergories, Seniors, open, youth, etc...
What if...(!) the powers that be ever saw sense and limited the calender to say 6 majors for the year, like is being talked about, and had them spaced evenly, so people can save money to go away. But.....
At each of the majors, the open, youth and seniors events were all bowled at the same time?
I know there might be the case of, what points are allocated, entry fees, prize payouts etc.. that can all come out in the wash, with ideas thrown around. but.....
1. You would have a lot of bowlers (hopefully)
2. You would get a lot more females as the seniors & youth are there too (hopefully)
3. The atmosphere would be better. (more bowlers (hopefully))
4. More bowlers at an event, more attractive to a sponser. you tell a sponser that the event will be attended by 160 bowlers and family, rather than 60-80 bowlers.
5. Less events, more sponsership money to throw into each one.
Maybe there are not only too many events, but also divisions... I am not 100% sure, but i get the impression that a lot of the Senior and Youth females don't bowl some of the Open events due to either lack of funds, or not thinking that they are up to the level required... i am not sure, so i am not saying that is the problem.
At least this way, if they only wanted to bowl the seniors or youth, at least they are in the same centre at the same time as the females that wanted to bowl open.
I get the idea from the European F1 races. they have the GP2 series, the Carrea Cup and a few other big racing series, that while in themselves do well as a stand alone, when they are on the same bill as the F1 races, they do a lot better from the TV coverage, and people attending to watch them. Look at the Australian GP, if they ran the V8's on the same weekend, you are only taking away from each other, put them together, presto, people turn up, they see a lot more.
just a suggestion.