Drilling legality question

Hey G, As your mate i will advise you to go and see Tonx. He's been drilling all my balls and so far they have been perfect. He will "invest" his time and his "skill" in you G until you get it right. Hope that helps mate.
Take care mate and luv for C :D
PS Sorry i forgot my Witty Words..
Stay away from a foolish man,for he is full of himself and you will not find knowledge from his foolish words :p
Cheers
Alex
 
Brunswick Tech said:
You seem to have trouble answering my questions? why would that? surely you can divulge the length of time you have been drilling balls, can you not have a educated guess on how many balls you have drilled or hands you have measured in that time?

Educated guess how long I have been drilling for? Maybe 2 years? I have known many of the theories, and been laying out bowling balls for longer than that, however actually drilling mine and other peoples gear, I would say around 2 years.

Educated guess on how many hands in that time? Can a mechanic tell how many oil changes he has done on a car? A cricketer how many times he has hit a 6? How many machines have you repaired in your 20 years of the industry? But if you want a round figure, I would guess well over 100.

Now if you feel as though your knowlege is superseeded, take this quote:

Advice can be a very dangerous thing, even from the wise to the very wise. Choose your advice carefully.
 
tonx said:
Educated guess on how many hands in that time? Can a mechanic tell how many oil changes he has done on a car? A cricketer how many times he has hit a 6?

47:)

Feral
 
Hi Feral, do you carry a note book while you bat ;) :D
47.. u will make a great opener for the aussies mate lmao
 
Not any more Alex. Give me a break!! As George says, I'm an "old codger". Retired man, including cricket. Last innings was in 2003 batting no. 11 and scoring 1 off 2 pills just weeks after eye surgery and wearing VERY dark sunnies!!!

OK in my younger days though. I don't know if the Wanderers in Canberra still exist but they had nightmares in a game nearly 40 years ago when we bowled them out for about 16 (me 6 for 8 ) and belted around 250 in 2 hours or so. Some 6's in that game I can tell you!!! Oh to be young again!!!!

Cheers

Feral
 
tonx said:
take this quote:
Advice can be a very dangerous thing, even from the wise to the very wise. Choose your advice carefully.
Thanks for the offer, Tonx. Unfortunately your a decade too late, I already have that quote, though, it is worded a little different and I prefer it over your version. Neverless, thanks for trying.

How many machines have I repaired over a 20 year period? Complex question and I don't believe I can answer it with much accuracy.........so you will no doubt understand when I say, I will not try to answer it, besides it's irrevelant to the topic at hand, and I just know that you detest getting off topic! Now if you had asked me how many hands I had measured or balls I had drilled in the last 2 years, I could answer you with some accuracy.

On the subject of choosing advice........if I was giving advice on brain surgery or dismantling a bomb I could understand your concern.

I did offer along with my original superseeded knowledge to Matrix the advice that he should seek the guidance and advice of a competent ball driller...................is that not ensuring that I do not pass on ill-advice or mislead anyone, how much more carefull can I be when offering to help someone?

Maybe all questions in this forum should be just directly p.m'd to you...........

As always................The difference between acting badly or brillantly is not based on your ability, but on the state of your mind and/or body in any given moment.............
 
Feral said:
Not any more Alex. Give me a break!! As George says, I'm an "old codger". Retired man, including cricket. Last innings was in 2003 batting no. 11 and scoring 1 off 2 pills just weeks after eye surgery and wearing VERY dark sunnies!!!
OK in my younger days though. I don't know if the Wanderers in Canberra still exist but they had nightmares in a game nearly 40 years ago when we bowled them out for about 16 (me 6 for 8 ) and belted around 250 in 2 hours or so. Some 6's in that game I can tell you!!! Oh to be young again!!!!
Cheers
Feral
They say Old is Gold Feral :D Go Stevie Wonder ( dark sunnies ) :cool: I've got utmost respect for old people. Most of them speak with wisdom and knowledge so much so young people have no choice but to listen and admire them. Wisdom comes from whatever they have learned from life's journey..the good and the bad. But the wise don't like to "show off" like some here. It's like eye for an eye in most thread. It's also like who will have the final say... thats PRIDE. Memories is all we will ever have Feral.. :D .I hope the Wanderers still exits after that innings haha,6 for 8, now that's what i call a perfect 300 game in bowling!!
Regards
Alex
Sorry Jase, you can delete this coz i know it is out of topic :D
 
Feral said:
OK in my younger days though. I don't know if the Wanderers in Canberra still exist but they had nightmares in a game nearly 40 years ago when we bowled them out for about 16 (me 6 for 8 ) and belted around 250 in 2 hours or so. Some 6's in that game I can tell you!!! Oh to be young again!!!!
Cheers
Feral

And it still wasn't as good as my 5 for 14 :D But I can see where my talent as an opening swing bowler came from ;) My economy of 6.8 runs per wicket was better than yours though :p

I have some wise words that were once passed on to me:

"Never get in the way of a mad Irishman".

It has no relevance to this topic, but I thought it was a good piece of advice. But since the quote isn't relevant, then maybe that actually does make it relevant to what's being going on in this thread? hmm.

Ciao.

PS - no offence meant to any Irish folk out there!
 
To shawn and tonx, read the question ask by the matrix, he was asking if it were 'legal' to drill a ball with an offset thumb, not if it was commen practice or worthwhile,

P.s have you got anymore infor on this CLT tonx?
 
Nighteyes300 said:
P.s have you got anymore infor on this CLT tonx?


There is much more information that I am able to give due to speaking with various master drillers in the US online, however none is documented as yet, because I simply don't have time to write it all up yet.

If any drillers out there are wanting to know any more about the method of fitting (its fairly simple to do, however all it does really take is alot of practise to get it just right!) feel free to send me a pm.

Mostly, forward/reverse and lateral pitches do have to SLIGHTLY be altered with this drilling (especially with people with no grips!) to get the drillings JUST right, however when its nailed, its extremely impressive, and more hand actually comes in contact with the ball for more control and comfort!!!

Ill do my best to answer any questions I can!

Cheers !
 
I knew I'd posted something on asb about this but I didn't realise how long ago - from 1988 on alt.sport.bowling...

"Time for me to inflict my opinion on the ng. again ;) Warning - this is
a somewhat technical post that will probably do exactly nothing for most
bowlers. You have been warned. :)

I have seen offsets drilled at least three ways. One way alters the
finger pitches VERY slightly, one alters finger pitch and span, and one
alters finger (a little) and thumb (a lot) pitch and spans. IMHO, all
three method arise through not understanding the reason for putting
lateral pitches on the fingers.
Everything below assumes a RH drill, BTW.


Method 1 involves drawing a grip 'centreline', then marking the thumb
position offset to this line by some amount (say 1"), and drilling the
thumbhole with correct pitch (thumb in line with where the fingers will
be). The fingers are then measured out from the thumb, the grip rotated
on to the 'centreline' (offsetting the thumb) and the fingers drilled
relative to the centreline. Obviously this does not affect the thumb
pitch. Any forward pitch in the fingers is slightly rotated (relative to
the 'true' grip centreline) to give a little more right pitch (or less
left pitch) in the fingers.
Result - the pitch change 'points' the fingers a little more towards the
inside of the hand (if they were drilled with forward pitch) and helps
the hand sit a little flatter on the ball. If the thumb is drilled by
rotating the centreline to the right (thumb not in line with where the
fingers will be) the thumb pitch will be affected very slightly
depending on the size of the pitches drilled (a zero - zero thumb will
not be affected at all - 3/8 reverse puts about 1/64" 'extra' right
pitch on the thumb)


Method 2 involves drawing a grip 'centreline', then measuring out BOTH
the thumb and fingers on the centreline. After setting up the thumb
pitches, the driller then rotates the ball the desired amount to get the
offset,, and drills the thumb. The fingers are then drilled along the
marked centreline but WITHOUT REMEASURING THE SPANS! Again, this has
little or no effect on the thumb pitch, and has the same effect on the
finger pitches as method 1. It also lengthens the ring finger span
slightly (usually the middle finger is unaffected, except for large
offsets).
Result - as for 1, the pitch change 'points' the fingers a little more
towards the inside of the hand. The longer ring finger span 'pulls' the
grip around anticlockwise, sitting the palm flatter on the ball. Major
candidate for problems at the base of the thumb and ring finger
tendonitis, IF the original span was correct. In some cases, this
'offset' will unintentionally correct a short ring finger span,
especially in bowlers with very flexible hands.
Still no advantage over a _correctly_ fitted grip, BTW.


Method 3: As for 2, except that instead of ROTATING the ball to get the
thumb offset, the driller cranks it over with the pitch setting lever.
Result: the ball now has too much left pitch by whatever the offset
distance was, and wrong spans. I have only seen this 'method' once. Nuff
said.


Now for the 'why it works' bit. Hold your hand in front of you, palm up.
bend the middle two fingers inwards a little, preferably with a pencil
or something between them to represent the bridge. Where do they point?
For most people, they will _not_ point directly at the base of the
thumb, but somewhere to the left towards the middle of the palm. They
will also point somewhat towards each other, rather than being parallel.
This shows the need to have correct SIDE pitches in the fingers - to
'point' the fingers in the direction they naturally want to. Many ball
drillers ignore this - the finger pitches are established by pointing
the drill on the centreline of the bridge, and cranking the ball
sideways with the pitch settings to the right place. This puts about
3/4" left and right pitch on the middle and ring respectively, but more
importantly it points the fingers right at the base of the thumb! The
ball driller will tell you he has put zero-zero on the fingers, when he
simply hasn't a clue how to drill correct finger pitches. Offsetting the
thumb, in this case, reduces the error.
Any grip can be reproduced on a straight up drilling with correct spans
and pitches. Offsets, like other similar grips such as the Strickland
grew up as a way of correcting for errors that the early drillers didn't
even know they were making.
Good ball drillers are hard to find. Be nice to them.


Rob."

I'm REALLY getting old...:)
 
Hi all,

I've been reading all of your posts and didn't have a clue on how to reply. To some extent, I felt my novice knowledge has somehow started a verbal fight between 2 geniune bowlers who are here to offer me the best advice they can. I don't want that :) Honestly I really appreciate all of your efforts and passions to share your knowledge with me. Anyway, I hope we can all do this in a much friendlier way.

Ok, back to the "case" ! I think Rob has explained it very well compared to what I have in mind :
" Now for the 'why it works' bit. Hold your hand in front of you, palm up.
bend the middle two fingers inwards a little, preferably with a pencil
or something between them to represent the bridge. Where do they point?
For most people, they will _not_ point directly at the base of the
thumb, but somewhere to the left towards the middle of the palm. They
will also point somewhat towards each other, rather than being parallel. "

With the normal drilling, when holding the ball (palm up), you will see a significant gap between the ball and your palm (maybe because I have a thin hand :) ) that means the ball cannot fully rest on your palm. When trying to cup your hand and put it under the ball, the thumb (being between the ball and the wrist) will tend to push it and make it harder. If I move the thumb out of the hole, I can easily hold the ball and have it rest fully on my palm (hand under the ball). I believe this is why there are 2 finger bowler because it is easier to hold the ball this way.

Anyway, that was the reason for my question. Now that I know it's still legal, I will give it a try.

Cheers,
G.
 
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