Country Cup All Star Team Of All Time

[Deano]

Just wondering from the history of C/Cup who would your All Star Team be.

Mine is the following
Mens
Jason Way
Rob Garioch
David Carmichael
Merv Billing
Craig Chandler
Andrew Craig
Russell Hinton

Emergencies
Anthony Flynn
Len Hogg

Womens
Lisa Garioch
Kelly Jones
Alicia Garioch
Nat Shelley
Trish Beasley
Lyn Plowright
Julie Hinton

Emergencies
Nicky Buntman
Melissa Thompson

These are just my opinions. They probably are far from being correct.

Deano

 

[wheelbarrow]

Deano

I reckon we could fit you in as well.

Don't know who to take out though.

 

[Deano]

I dont think i would fit in. Mite get a gurnsey in the "b" team

Deano

 

[Straight_kut]

Dean would be in it for sure.. record speaks for itself as well as presence on the lanes and in the team.

 

[OTB]

Deano should get a mention in any discussion on this topic.

Couple of other names to consider as well, Neil Thompson, Dave Whitham, Viv Burl, Dot Diegan (apologies to incorrect spellings) all long serving Colac icons.

Others for longevity, Griffo, Eddie Way, Kev W, Millsy, Neil Webb and the list goes on.
What makes an All Time All Star? Short burst of brilliance? Or years of service to the cause?

Interesting discussion, selection criteria would be fun, no of years, no of games, country cup wins (not game wins, trophy wins), no of all stars, etc etc etc.

My top 5, just off the cuff:
Andrew Craig, Len Hogg, Jason Way, Anthony Flynn, David Carmichael.
I wish I could name a team of 12!

Lyn Plowright, Lisa Garioch, Trish Beasley, Kelly Jones, Alicia Garioch.
Again, history here would give some great names.

Good topic Deano.
David

 

[Assassin_300]

Dont be modest Deano your selling yourself short

You Criteria is scoring ability ??,if winning the big one ,Another To The Mix would be Woza his presence alone has got morwell over the line many times


My 7

Andrew Craig
Anthony Flynn
David Carmichael
Len Hogg
Jason Way
Merve Billing
Dean Mckinnon

Another interesting point this is a phenominal group of bowlers but could they work together as a team

Kev

Apologies to the Girls I'm just not sure there

 

[craig]

a.flynn
d.mckinnon
j.way
a.craig
m.billing
r.smith
l.hogg

emergency s.kiss, r hinton

d.liversidge
a.turner
l.garioch
a.garioch
s.le'page
c.peel
c.mconkey

emergency k.jones, b.moore

 

[bowlrig]

Great thread.

Ladies.
Lisa Garioch
Denece Jones
Trish Beasley
Kelly Jones
Viv Burl

Reserves
Josie Moore
Alicia Garioch / Courtney Murdoch

Men.
Dean McKinnon
Andrew Craig
Merv Billing
Jason Way
Anthony Flynn

Reserves
Shane Griffiths
Kevin Wilkins

All chosen because of differing reasons from scoring ability, to winning capability, to team oriented / lifting ability.

I am sure I could name another 10 for each team.

Rob

 

[AdrianS]

Jason and Griff scare me so much i moved to Qld!!!

 

[Deano]

The only time griffo scared me is when he punched the wall at Chadstone in Vic masters. Wasnt so much that he punched it was more worried if thats what hed do to a wall what will he do to me when i kick his ass.

Deano

 

[craig]

pfffft

GRIFFO = pussae

 

[Gatsby]

How do you rate bowlers over a 28 year event. The best bowlers in the 80’s on old wooden lanes using pre reactive balls may not be the best today (although I suspect they would have been good enough to adapt). Same goes for the best bowlers right now – would they have dominated in the 80’s?

Do you go for the most all stars or the best average overall or most points won or best team leader or most Cup wins?

I personally don’t think number of Country Cup wins should have a huge bearing on who has been the best bowler. The best bowler of all time can have an ordinary team and not win, while an ordinary bowler in a strong team might have multiple wins. I can find you records of bowlers only bowling 4 – 6 games over the weekend that have taken home the trophy while others have won >80% of points and bowled a high average and the team has finished mid field. It is true that some bowlers can literally drag their teams over the line to win, but you have to have a team good enough to be in contention for that to happen.

The criteria I would use would be – longevity over 10 or more years or has dominated for part of an “era”. Multiple all stars (or least in the top 10 averages), generally bowls in the harder spots and has a good points ratio (I would suggest top and bottom as the two hardest over the years).

All that being said – here are the seven I would go with (minimum of 6 country cups bowled)

Andrew Craig

– 7 times all star, 4 times a team member in winning Men’s team, 60% of points won from 28 country cups. (17 of 23 years I have his records for, he was in top 20 averages)

Merv Billing

– 5 times all star, 5 times a team member in winning Men’s team, 62% of points won from 27 country cups. (17 of 21 year I have his records for, he was top 20)

Dean McKinnon

– 7 times all star, 65% of points won - almost all games in top spot

Jason Way

- 4 times an all star (last 4 years). Three times leading average. He was a major reason why Warrnambool won in 2006. Has also won a massive 74% of his matches (mostly as lead bowler).

Anthony Flynn

3 times an all star from seven cups bowled. Was twice highest average for event (only three bowlers have topped the averages more than once). 71% of points won.

Neil Thompson or David Whitham

Couldn’t separate the two Colac guys. Neil has been a seven time all star ranging from 1982 to 2004 – has also been in 4 winning Colac men’s teams. David dominated the first 5 years of Country Cup when he was 4 times the highest average (and didn’t bowl the other year). He won over 70% of his points in the 1980’s usually bowling anchor.

Bill Garantini or Harry Johannsen

Can’t have a decent team without a good lefty. For me it was a toss up between Bill Garantini and Harry Johannsen. Bill made three all star teams and was one of the best bowlers in the early 1990’s. Harry made two all star teams in his 8 years and was in the top 10, 4 times.

How about a team for blokes that we only got a small glimpse of (less than 5 country cups)

Len Hogg – 4 times bowled, 4 times an all star
Chris Carmody – 3 times top 10 average in 4 years bowled – twice an all star
Steve Edmunds – 2 times bowled, 2 times an all star
Chris Hamilton – 3 times bowled (so far), twice all star – all 3 years top 10
Russell Smith – only bowled three times – once an all star
Ian Burkinshaw – only bowled twice – once an all star
Steve Bell – 4 cups, twice an all star.

It’s funny that most of us are in agreement with at least 5 of the bowlers. Practically everyone has said Andrew Craig, Merv Billing, Jason Way, Dean McKinnon & Anthony Flynn. It is just a case of who are the other two team members.

I don't know enough about the ladies teams to comment -- I will leave that up to others

 

[ThEOnE]

Intersting how many points won comes into it, I believe this should almost be the first criteria to look at.
I mean who is more valuable guy one has 150, 150, 300 wins 1 of 3 but averages 200 and makes all stars.
Guy two has 199, 199, 199, wins 2 out of 3 but averages less than guy one and misses all stars.

I know where my value lies!

garry does your site have the leading points getters, buy overall number of wins and percenage of wins?

 

[Deano]

Yeah but Jason in Bendigo i averaged huge and won stuff all points. I had a ridiculous average bowled against me. I averaged 219 bowled 18 games and won 8 points. Also its not only that year its happened to me. You go to remember most of the time the better bowlers are at 1 and 5. I even went down to 2 i think and got hammered.

Deano

 

[Gatsby]

Intersting how many points won comes into it, I believe this should almost be the first criteria to look at.
I mean who is more valuable guy one has 150, 150, 300 wins 1 of 3 but averages 200 and makes all stars.
Guy two has 199, 199, 199, wins 2 out of 3 but averages less than guy one and misses all stars.
I know where my value lies!
garry does your site have the leading points getters, buy overall number of wins and percenage of wins?

My web site has points where points have been printed on the standing sheets. Not all final standing sheets have points on them. Plus i don't have every year.

Also as Deano pointed out, it is not just about how many points you win, but also where you play when you win those points. 15 points bowling 2nd is easier than 15 points bowling first but statistically both are still 15 points.

 

[Woza]

Gary did some stats a few years ago on a number of things that we asked him. It is under the Country Cup 2006 thread
http://totalbowling.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=8391&highlight=country+cup&page=8
He could even tell you scores from any pair of lanes from any round (where is the computer geek smilie)
It would be a fair bit different now though as I assume that Gary has gathered alot more of the information that he was missing at that time

 

[Deano]

I rekon it would be good to have a best and fairest medal away from the allstars. Give each game bowled a 3 2 1 vote and have it on maybe scores, enthusiasm, good sports (**** that would put me out) , leadership and etc etc. Dunno who we would get to choose the votes but yeah just an idea.

Deano

 

[Gatsby]

Just for Jason - I have attached the file that includes only the years that i have points for (around 20 years of records).

I have sorted them in order of highest % of points won.

The criteria was minimum 50 games.

I think that you can see the cream still rises to the top.


(The years that did not have points on the final standing sheet were 2005, 2002, 1997, 1996, 1992. Pretty much every other year from 1989 onwards is included in these records. Anthony Flynn average 220 in 2005 so i bet he won at least 18 or 19 points -- they are not included on this sheet)

 

[Gatsby]

I rekon it would be good to have a best and fairest medal away from the allstars. Give each game bowled a 3 2 1 vote and have it on maybe scores, enthusiasm, good sports (**** that would put me out) , leadership and etc etc. Dunno who we would get to choose the votes but yeah just an idea.
Deano

We do a similar thing in our league comp. The two captains vote on a 3-2-1 each night and at the end of season at the presentation night we do a MVP count. It is good fun.

Probably the negative against it would be the extra time needed between games to do the votes as well as someone having to tally them all up.

 

[OTB]

I rekon it would be good to have a best and fairest medal away from the allstars. Give each game bowled a 3 2 1 vote and have it on maybe scores, enthusiasm, good sports (**** that would put me out) , leadership and etc etc. Dunno who we would get to choose the votes but yeah just an idea.
Deano

Deano,
Been making notes and getting some ideas for what we are going to do for the OTB award next year - Rob started something good I think.
But where to go from there? I have my own thoughts, and I've asked others, some discussions/thought processes have lead down the players vote path (as per Rachuig), and yes its open to rigging as is any vote or subjective process.

Griffo and I had some discussion some time ago about another idea, maybe I'll revisit it and something good will come of it. One of the ideas is basically what you have suggested.

On the subject of All Time All Star Team, surely there's gotta be a manager!
Or what about 'SuperCoach'? Marin knows who I mean.

Cheers
David