Country Cup 2008

[grumpie]

Country cup is by far the best teams event i have been involved in. Emerson is also great fun but still runs second (in my opinion). I haven't bowled Dunn shield or Rachuig and more than likely never will.

I have bowled in all bar Rachuig and I think that Dunn Shield is the best. For 2 main reasons:

1 and the most important - men and ladies bowl at the same time

2 all bowlers must bowl a minimum number of games - this to me means that the strongest team wins and not necessarily the one with the top 5.

Liz

 

[Purple_Tweety]

2 all bowlers must bowl a minimum number of games - this to me means that the strongest team wins and not necessarily the one with the top 5.

But Liz, if Country Cup was to implement this then it would just become Emerson Shield Two.....

I agree that Emerson means you need a well rounded team with depth to win, but the varying conditions in Country Cup also means you need bowlers who can bowl on different conditions as well.

They need to be different otherwise they lose their appeal.

Does Rachiug have a minimum games?

 

[Gatsby]

I have bowled in all bar Rachuig and I think that Dunn Shield is the best. For 2 main reasons:
1 and the most important - men and ladies bowl at the same time
2 all bowlers must bowl a minimum number of games - this to me means that the strongest team wins and not necessarily the one with the top 5.
Liz

I disagree with point 2 Liz. The minimum games rule is also used in Emerson and it favours the stronger centres. To use Colac as an example we don't have anywhere near the depth of the bigger centres. Shepparton or Geelong or Werribee could pick any of 15 bowlers and still be competitive because their bowler number 6 or 7 are still very capable. Our top four or five are competitive but is drops away very quickly. This means that by having to bowl low averaging bowlers 6 and 7 we lose points. If we were able to choose not to bowl players bowling badly we would finish a lot higher.

Have a look at mens Country cup this year. If Sunraysia had to bowl the guys that struggled they would not have been anywhere near as close (they had one guy bowled 5 games and one that bowled 8). Whilst it is better for the individual bowler to be guaranteed a certain number of games it doesn't necessarily help the team. Also minimum games rule means you have to have 7 bowlers or you use a blind score which is not much fun either.

As for Men and women bowling together, that might be good as far as what time each day finishes, but as far Country cup goes, the country centres (other than Geelong and Morwell) don't have enough lanes for this to happen. I personally would hate to see Country Cup bowled in Geelong and Morwell every year or every worse some large City bowling centre.

 

[grumpie]

Paige and Gary,

I hear where you are both coming from and I do understand.

But from my own personal experience, I found that I bowled better in Dunn Shield because of the added pressure (being a lower average bowler than most in the tourny).

With regards to the men and women bowling together, I understand that it is harder to achieve in the country centres. I was just comparing the 3 tournies that I have bowled in and I find the atmosphere when the men and women bowl together is heaps better.

Liz

 

[grumpie]

VCTBA does foster bowling in Country victoria - that is why Country cup is the best event going around and that is why bowlers bend over backwards to make the team each year (in most centres). That is why people who aren't currently able to bowl in it are complaining that they can't bowl in it -- because they so badly want to.

I have to disagree with you here Gary.
By not letting or expanding Ccup is restricting the amount of bowlers participating so this is not fostering and promoting the sport of tenpins.
How many entries were rejected from Country Champs last year due to a minor issue of how long and with whom they were sanctioned. Do you think these bowlers will bother to enter again. Probibly not. Once again foster and promote is not happening.
2002 Sale held Country champs and Liz was refused entry because we had not completly finished moving to Sale. We were in the middle of selling our house in Outer Melbourne (Vicroads classed us as Country) and she still worked in Melbourne. She spent Friday to Monday in Sale.
We have not bowled or probibly will never bowl country champs again.
These are only a couple of examples I'm sure there are a lot more around.
Sorry but to me FOSTER and PROMOTE is to encourage all bowlers to participate in our sport not reject them!!!!!!!
I know this is off topic but I feel it is part of what is happening.
Gunther Czmok

 

[grumpie]

Probably to make a comment to what my other half just posted.

In our sport, the venues are privately owned, which means that they have to make a living. It is much harder to achieve this for the country centres.

My gripe is (keep in mind that I am an accountant by trade and a business owner who employs 6/7 staff) that some of these decisions made not only turn away bowlers but turn away income for the centres.

I have always disagreed with an association when their decisions do not allow a proprietor maximum income from an event.

Liz

 

[pockets72]

I am sorry for suggesting that there maybe NEW associations that may be interested in participating in C C,I thouhgt that by encouraging NEW associations to participate this would be promoting and fostering,but this may not be the case.

cliff

 

[Gatsby]

My point was that it is not just a case of saying -- hey we want to bowl country cup so count us in. The existing rules mean some criteria must first be met (i am not exactly sure of specifics). No prospective new teams have filled this criteria therefore no new teams. I wasn't inferring NEVER new teams just not next year.

 

[granat]

My understanding is that there are centres that are eligible to bowl Country Cup, (ie all the criteria have been met) and they are still being told they can't bowl (probably based on the too many teams, not enough lanes thing).
If this is wrong will somebody please let me know.
I don't believe this fostering and promoting, rather maintaining the status quo which will not see the tournament stay the Number 1 teams event in the state.
Graeme

 

[Woza]

Isnt there some rule within the VCTBA that before any new association is accepted into Senior Shield, CCup and Jnr CCup they have to be establised for a number of years and been an active participant in the Country Champs etc. Before I get shot down I know that some entries were rejected from Country Champs last year. I also believe that any new association can be invited to participate at any stage in any of the events as as happened with Horsham and Jnr CCup.
Can anybody confirm that this is the case

 

[jwpepper]

Does anybody actually know the rules.

 

[pockets72]

i have been trying to find them on vctba web site funny but cant find them

 

[Freddo]

i have been trying to find them on vctba web site funny but cant find them

If you want a copy of the rules go to your Country Association and ask for a copy. They should have a copy for you to have look at, it ain't a secret society.
Cheers

 

[pockets72]

DID'NT SAY IT WAS MAKES SENCE TO ME THAT THEY HAVE A WEB SITE Y NOT PUT IT ON THERE FOR ALL 2 C.

 

[grumpie]

If you want a copy of the rules go to your Country Association and ask for a copy. They should have a copy for you to have look at, it ain't a secret society.
Cheers

The Association may have a constitution, this applies to associations involved in Ccup not necessarily rules on what happens when associations change or teams dr\op out etc.
Gunther

 

[jwpepper]

DID'NT SAY IT WAS MAKES SENCE TO ME THAT THEY HAVE A WEB SITE Y NOT PUT IT ON THERE FOR ALL 2 C.

Stop YELLING

 

[pockets72]

Stop YELLING

i will bloody yell at u pepper

 

[sampson1791]

I have taken this from the rules.....
And now I will be shot as I am not a VCTBA rep.
PARTICIPATION
Participation in the Victorian Country Cup will be limited to one (1) team in each division from the following associations: ALBURY/WODONGA, BALLARAT, BENDIGO, COLAC, GEELONG, LATROBE VALLEY, OVENS & MURRAY, SALE, SHEPPARTON, SUNRAYSIA, WARRNAMBOOL .........................

and any other Association invited to participate by a ¾ majority decision of the above member associations.

Ok this posted - please get all the current association reps together and lobby them to vote on new associations to participate. Most of those that read this will know of the reps or someone at the relevant association to speak too in getting your " NEW " associations point across.

 

[pockets72]

IT'S COMING SALE-A-RAMA LOOK OUT

 

[Woza]

IT'S COMING SALE-A-RAMA LOOK OUT

There is a button on your keyboard called "CAPS LOCK" see if you can find it
Lets put it in perspective by more than 3/4 majority vote then at current there are 11 Associations - 3/4 = 8.25 so for a new team to come in then 9 associations need to vote for them.
If there are only 10 associations - 3/4 = 7.5 then 8 votes are required
That is provided that all associations have a representitive at the AGM
In the current position (11 associations ) if 3 associations do not attend the agm or if 2 do not attend and 1 votes for the negative then no new association will participate.
I am all for inviting new associations into CCup provided it is kept at the country centres (besides being a great tournament half the attraction is travelling to all of the other country associations all over Victoria) but if it more teams came at the cost of moving to a melbourne centre then I would be voting against any new associations.
If by chance it was opened to melbourne centres being able to host and lets say that 3 new associations ( bringing it to a total of 14 or even add 2 more and bring it to a total of 16 associations) come into the tournament and men and ladies want to bowl together every year - How many centres in VIC have 28+ (32+) lanes where this can be achieved.