Cannington, the question has to be asked

[You have been Munsoned]

Hi, im back

Was Cannington Legal or not???

Sure the results from the 1 (one) tape that was taken was legal, no questions asked. But dont the rules say that 3 (three) tapes must be taken??
And i quote:

"4. How is the ratio measured?
After the tape reading is completed the average reading in units of oil on
boards 18, 19, 20 must not be more than 3 times greater than that on boards
3,4,5,6,7. Tape readings should be taken at 3 points on the lane. Between 8-
10 feet, 25 -30 feet and one foot behind the end of the buff line of oil."

I saw just on tape, where were the other 2 (two) tapes???

If the other 2 readings were made public, i appologise now, but i only saw 1 tape reading and that was the first one at 10 feet.

After watching the bowlers throw those sorts of scores, and the fact that only 1 tape was shown, i was surprised that no one else has asked the question.

Yours
Roy

 

[You have been Munsoned]

Awwww

I wonder why no-one has replied.....
No one is saying anything, is it because there might be some truth to what i have asked and people are scared that the rules may not have been followed??

In the imortal words of a screen legend:
"Well.........we're waiting..."

Roy

 

[androooo]

Just had a look on TBA's website, and have seen the results. If the 2 other tapes were taken, why aren't the results of those readings made available? Just because a reading is in compliance at 10', that means nothing at 25-30' or a foot from the buff line.

If those tapes were taken, what distances were they taken at, and what were the readings?.... Or do we just assume that they were done, and assume that they were legal?

I'm sure someone knows the distances and the results of each tape, but are they brave enough to post them, or to let me know through PM or email?

 

[Graham]

TBA will not post here. Peter Coburn has implemented a "Communication Policy" which recommends that TBA Board Members and State Managers do not post here on TotalBowling.

 

[stormy]

Ahhh!

the cone of silence - TBA has once agin withdrawn into its shell of non communications.

 

[You have been Munsoned]

And the flood gates will open!!!!!

Cannington, this will ruffle some feathers now!!!

Yes 3 tapes were taken, as per the rules,
However......they were taken at the wrong places on the lane.

The last tape was taken, and was to be of a legal ratio. Thats great, the only problem, is that it was taken at the wrong place, at 30 feet, 7 feet short of the proper place, that being 1 foot back from where the machine stops oiling. Now how do we know that seeing as at 30 feet the pattern was legal, whos to say that 7 feet further down the lane it still was, i doubt it, a damm lot at that too.

Also the second tape was taken in the wrong place too, it was taken at 20 feet, when it should be between 25 and 30 feet.

Once again, the rule is a good one, if (sorry IF) it is done correctly.

Now the question i want to know is, what do bowlers who did well in the tournement feel about this?

How do we trust the rule makers, when the enforces of the rules cant een follow them?? Geezz starting to think that they are Supreme Court Judges!!!

Again, this isn't a personal attack against anyone at all, but seriously, (and i know that the TBA dont post here but...) PLEASE PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT AND DO IT RIGHT.

Voter Poll:
Should the Ranking Points be taken away from Cannington?
Or should all centers have this luxury this year?
Bye Bye for now

Roy

PS cover up for AMF super six tournement?? fact or fiction.

 

[Shayne Melton]

I have a question for everyone here........
Shouldn't TBA scrap this idea of laying 3:1 and let the promotors or centres lay what they want?.....or........
If the bowlers in this country want the national tornament patterns to be tougher and monited........aproach TBA and give them some suggestions instead of posting on the internet how crap it all is.
A suggestion is that TBA perchase a Kegal and rent it to the center on the weekend of the event. In this event the TBA can set the pattern to what they want, the computer inside will let them know if it has been layed properly throuhg out the weekend, and by giving it to the center on the weekend of the event this eliminates the locals having 3 months practice on a tough pattern.......and also this would stop us from having more then one ranked event per weekend.

Please if any one has any good ideas put them forward and see what other bowlers think.

 

[androooo]

Hmmm... How is it, that someone can have the authority to pull tapes, but have no clue about where the tapes are to be taken?

No futher comment needed here I think....

 

[You have been Munsoned]

Shayne, no where in my posts to i complain about the 3:1 ratio rule, i think it is a good rule and it is good to see the TBA respond to the demand from us bowlers, however, my point is, what good is a rule if they dont enforce it properly?????? Who is going to police the police????

Letting centers make their own patterns, yeah great, what do you think has been happening for the last 25 years, and why do you think that this policey was brought in????

As far as the TBA purchasing a kegal machine, great, have the one pattern in every center, not only would that be boring, the pattern probably wouldn't work properly in any center that is was put in.

The TBA are on the ball with this, but what good are rules if no one can enforce them properly??

I feel that the tapes should be published in the center and on the website, all 3 tapes, and from both ends of the house, at least that way, you can see what you are bowling on and whether it is legal or not.

I just want to know if this was a plain old stuff up, or an attempt at a cover up. I know what i am thinking it is.

Roy

 

[Shayne Melton]

The great thing about a kegal is that it can lay any pattern you want not just the same one every time. the 3:1 is not a new idea........the rest of the world trashed that idea years ago.
If we are so concerned about the tapes at Cannington ring TBA and ask for the results. I believe their is no need to publish the results if there is no problem.

 

[You have been Munsoned]

Shayne

If you read the post i put up, i did post the results of the tape readings from cannington. And they were done incorrectly in arcordance with the rules that they set out. This is the problem, why couldn't they do their job properly?

And just remember this, a kegel (in fact any machine) is only as good as the person operating it. Kegel is not the answer to this problem, just cause it is state of the art, education is. What good is anything, if you dont know how to use it?????

Roy

 

[AdrianS]

The oil pattern is only one variable, the difference in how the lane surface itself plays has a pretty big effect in itself, 3:1 doesn't mean 'hard' or 'low scores' in every centre believe me! But as usual the oil pattern (as its been through out recent bowling history) is the convenient 'whipping boy' again. Geez if the aim is to lower scores just lower the flat gutters a bit and watch everyone get corner pinned into next year!!

 

[Graham]

Kegel is not the answer to this problem, just cause it is state of the art, education is. What good is anything, if you dont know how to use it?????

It was exactly my problem at the beginning (if you read back into the posts) - the fact that it cant be expected to be laid down and followed without education to these centres.

 

[stormy]

Just a question on Maxium ratio:

TBA has set a ratio of either 3:1 or 4:1 depending on the length of oil. But there is no minium ratio so in reality you could set up lanes with a 1:1, 2:1 0.5:1 etc. we seem to concerntrate on the 3:1 but what is the minium????

 

[CIO]

Do you mean how many units of oil????

stormy, you mentioned at the start of your post that the ratios are 3:1 or 4:1, and then you started asking about the ratios again, i'm a tad confused on what you are asking??

In my understanding (and please correct me if i'm wrong), 3:1 means you can have 60 units of oil in the middle of the lane but no less than 20 units at the edge. Or, 30 units in the middle and not less than 10 units on the edge. As far as i know, its up to the center's as to how MUCH oil they put on the lane so long as it has a 3:1 ratio.

 

[stormy]

actually

there is a maxium stated

so you could have 60:20 etc. But there is nothing to stop you from having 20:20 (1:1) as is only states maxium of either 3:1 or 4:1
so the question really is what is the minium?

 

[CIO]

Ahh. . . i see what you mean!!

I don't know if there is a minimum to be honest. One of the reasons the policy was brought in was to stop the "wall" effect. So i guess that a 1:1 ratio with 10 units from edge to edge would be "legal". (but not exactly desirable!! LOL)

 

[da_cowman]

Wouldn't a minimum depend on if you are allowed to lay a reverse block? in which the ratio could be 1:5, but that hasn't exceeded the maximum of 3:1 has it? The I way i understand it is-As long as there is not more then 3:1 middleutside ratio of oil, then the pattern is legal. Nothing stopping you from putting more on the outisde and less in the middle... or is there??

Shaynes idea of TBA purchasing a kegel and

In this event the TBA can set the pattern to what they want, the computer inside will let them know if it has been layed properly throuhg out the weekend

letting TBA decide the pattern sounds good to me. I'm sure the TBA would have someone who

And just remember this, a kegel (in fact any machine) is only as good as the person operating it. Kegel is not the answer to this problem, just cause it is state of the art, education is

can properally operate a Kegel machine to lay any pattern that their heart desires. The mechanic at my home centre can do it, so why can't the TBA?

As far as the TBA purchasing a kegal machine, great, have the one pattern in every center, not only would that be boring, the pattern probably wouldn't work properly in any center that is was put in.

Kegels have the ability to lay any pattern they want. I believe that the TBA would not lay down the same pattern every tournament. They could lay down anything they wanted. It would not be boring, unless you find challenges boring.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[Graham]

I cant imagine TBA buying a Kegel machine, I think you guys should get over that pretty quickly.

To buy a machine of that value for 12-20 tournaments a year, not to mention Freight costs in transporting it and a knowledgable person to each event is getting .. well .. huge. It's not (i wouldnt think) even an option.

 

[CIO]

Wouldn't a minimum depend on if you are allowed to lay a reverse block? in which the ratio could be 1:5, but that hasn't exceeded the maximum of 3:1 has it? The way i understand it is-As long as there is not more then 3:1 middleutside ratio of oil, then the pattern is legal. Nothing stopping you from putting more on the outisde and less in the middle... or is there??

Later Da Cowman!

From the TBA's Lane Conditioning Policy doco. . .

"How is the ratio measured?
After the tape reading is completed the average reading in units of oil on boards 18, 19, 20 must not be more than 3 times greater than that on boards 3,4,5,6,7. Tape readings should be taken at 3 points on the lane. Between 8-10 feet, 25 -30 feet and one foot behind the end of the buff line of oil."

Given this statement, it appears that there is no reason why you couldn't have a reverse block!! Well spotted there Da Cowman!!!

[/b]