CANBERRA SENIORS CUP 2011
- Thread starter Ian Swan
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I don't agreed what Tony said, senior want to enjoy, but also love the challanges, Tony was right, I was bowled very badly at the first day of AO, but I still shot 200 over, that was I don't like to see. Look at Tony, 10 boards for his mistakes, and never move one board during the two days, why he still didn't win?
JP
JP
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
Jason
Not all seniors think that setting a ditch is the way to go, me included, but it appears the choice is a ditch or a pattern no one can bowl on. Organisers fail to recognise there is a choice in between the two extremes
Thank you Susanne, I get so sick of re-writing the same stuff over and over again.
I've never suggested a sport pattern, Tony. Merely to stop cheating. Kegel's Bourbon Street at 7:1 would probably play really well there. People would have to move their feet and their eyes and keep the ball in a 3-4 board area at the break. Is that too much to ask?
Whoever won would do more than match up by dumb luck, which is usually how it works on blocked lanes. And this pattern is steeper than the house shot at Tuggeranong. It's a carry contest.
Cheers,
Jason
Jason,
Thanks for your comments on "Seniors" bowling and on what lane conditions you think we should have. Whilst I am not a believer in "ditch" conditions I also believe the seniors should have more forgiving conditions. Jason when you reach 60 have wrists and fingers suffering with arthritis, need a hip replacement and knees that are shot not to mention all the other parts of your body that don't work like they used to, I wonder if you will have the same thoughts!!!!
Stev
Thanks for your comments on "Seniors" bowling and on what lane conditions you think we should have. Whilst I am not a believer in "ditch" conditions I also believe the seniors should have more forgiving conditions. Jason when you reach 60 have wrists and fingers suffering with arthritis, need a hip replacement and knees that are shot not to mention all the other parts of your body that don't work like they used to, I wonder if you will have the same thoughts!!!!
Stev
strop
Elite Athlete
I see where your thought are Jase, but have to agree with Steve.
Again to a Senior bowler its all about having fun, get together with friends, a bit of competition on a reasonable easy but fair condition. Sure most of them look like ditches and some are with the exception of Canberra and Adelaide in previous years. But as Steve say's
I would love to see some of the big ball movers at the age of 50+, For me personally I am by no means a elite athlete....and yes for me there use to be Arrows to shoot at out on the lanes (no way I'm going to wear glasses out there) but not these days......
Anyway, I'm just trying to see what your interest in what patterns are being laid for us oldies? You nearly 50... ...must be getting close...
Cheers
Tony
Again to a Senior bowler its all about having fun, get together with friends, a bit of competition on a reasonable easy but fair condition. Sure most of them look like ditches and some are with the exception of Canberra and Adelaide in previous years. But as Steve say's
I would love to see some of the big ball movers at the age of 50+, For me personally I am by no means a elite athlete....and yes for me there use to be Arrows to shoot at out on the lanes (no way I'm going to wear glasses out there) but not these days......
Anyway, I'm just trying to see what your interest in what patterns are being laid for us oldies? You nearly 50...
...must be getting close...Cheers
Tony
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
I turned 43 today, actually. I'm also all for having a bit of room out there. Having to hit a shot glass at 40ft is not fun unless you're absolutely on top of your game and the practice required for that at Australian game rates would be better spent on an investment property.
My interest is in bowling. A game based on a mixture of accuracy, timing, a modicum of athleticism, a good dose of mental alacrity and repetition. Not the lie of an 11:1, 10-10 walled up, used to be illegal, no 300's should be sanctioned on kind of pattern provides. Something much more interesting than the rubbish we see in every over-inflated league average house in any old place. Something that might actually make people think a bit. Maybe even learn something along the way or help out a fellow player with.
Something a little more honest and therefore worthy of a national title.
The Emperor is wearing no clothes on an 11:1 pattern. I'm just pointing it out. Plenty of others think it, but can't be bothered. I care enough to speak the truth.
My interest is in bowling. A game based on a mixture of accuracy, timing, a modicum of athleticism, a good dose of mental alacrity and repetition. Not the lie of an 11:1, 10-10 walled up, used to be illegal, no 300's should be sanctioned on kind of pattern provides. Something much more interesting than the rubbish we see in every over-inflated league average house in any old place. Something that might actually make people think a bit. Maybe even learn something along the way or help out a fellow player with.
Something a little more honest and therefore worthy of a national title.
The Emperor is wearing no clothes on an 11:1 pattern. I'm just pointing it out. Plenty of others think it, but can't be bothered. I care enough to speak the truth.
jason_doust
The Bowling Geek
Thanks Strop. Believe it or not. I'm trying to help. Ditches will not get us out of the problems that ditches created.
Here we go again, same old argument different thread.
Whilst I understand the desire / need to get together and enjoy our bowling, but isn’t that what we all do anyway regardless of age and conditions on the lane and isn’t that what we do in our weekly leagues? If we weren’t enjoying ourselves we’d be doing some other sport.
Lets look at this from an overall sports perspective shall we.
We have 3 rankings tours, Youth, Adults and Seniors. The first 2 play on patterns designed to test bowlers knowledge and ability, whereas the later plays on patterns that can only be described as carry-a-thons. Why is this? Recent posts have cited ageing and the ailments which comes from ageing. Fair enough we all will have to cope with this at some stage in our lives, its simply part of getting older. But let me say there are still many of the 50+ group who play Rachuig and the Adult tour and still have the ability and skill to match it with the “younger brigade”. This being so, why the easier patterns on the seniors tour? Surely patterns a little more difficult than house but not as difficult as Sports would be a better option as JP has suggested.
Now I know TBA will not comment on this next part so I will be making a huge what if at this juncture. WHAT IF the ASC, who provides our funding are watching our 3 tours and factoring what they see occurring on these tours into our grant money. Whilst I am in no way privy to this information, nor should I or anyone else be, but what if this “ditch mentality” is affecting the dollars we get? We as a sport are struggling to grow an identity, easy tournament conditions do not help our cause in this area.
The question was asked what’s is there for us? I’d like to ask the 30 or so representatives going to Guam as our senior team this question – would you prefer to play tournaments on these ditches or on a pattern that assists in preparing you all for Guam later in the year? And to our seniors team that went to Japan last year, would rankings event ditches or patterns that would have challenged you been better preparation for what you experienced in Japan?
Going back to my TBA / ASC point, what if better preparation on tougher tournament patterns resulted in more medals which also resulted in more grant money from the ASC? Again we aren’t privy to this, but surely better performance as a result of better tournament preparation by all our team on the world stage could / would result in more money being given to us as a sport. If more money means that representing your country in any of the age groups becomes cheaper for team members then we could well and truly see more put their hands up to represent and not have to invite bowlers or field only ½ the contingent required as was the case with the Seniors team this year.
I’m not looking to rubbish anyone, I’m just trying to throw a little bit of thinking outside of the box that will hopefully have our nationally ranked tournaments set up to be a test of skill and ability rather than the carry-a-thons we have seen. Perhaps the new technical high performance committee will be looking at this and establishing a minimum standard pattern for each of our 3 major tours. Here’s hoping.
Whilst I understand the desire / need to get together and enjoy our bowling, but isn’t that what we all do anyway regardless of age and conditions on the lane and isn’t that what we do in our weekly leagues? If we weren’t enjoying ourselves we’d be doing some other sport.
Lets look at this from an overall sports perspective shall we.
We have 3 rankings tours, Youth, Adults and Seniors. The first 2 play on patterns designed to test bowlers knowledge and ability, whereas the later plays on patterns that can only be described as carry-a-thons. Why is this? Recent posts have cited ageing and the ailments which comes from ageing. Fair enough we all will have to cope with this at some stage in our lives, its simply part of getting older. But let me say there are still many of the 50+ group who play Rachuig and the Adult tour and still have the ability and skill to match it with the “younger brigade”. This being so, why the easier patterns on the seniors tour? Surely patterns a little more difficult than house but not as difficult as Sports would be a better option as JP has suggested.
Now I know TBA will not comment on this next part so I will be making a huge what if at this juncture. WHAT IF the ASC, who provides our funding are watching our 3 tours and factoring what they see occurring on these tours into our grant money. Whilst I am in no way privy to this information, nor should I or anyone else be, but what if this “ditch mentality” is affecting the dollars we get? We as a sport are struggling to grow an identity, easy tournament conditions do not help our cause in this area.
The question was asked what’s is there for us? I’d like to ask the 30 or so representatives going to Guam as our senior team this question – would you prefer to play tournaments on these ditches or on a pattern that assists in preparing you all for Guam later in the year? And to our seniors team that went to Japan last year, would rankings event ditches or patterns that would have challenged you been better preparation for what you experienced in Japan?
Going back to my TBA / ASC point, what if better preparation on tougher tournament patterns resulted in more medals which also resulted in more grant money from the ASC? Again we aren’t privy to this, but surely better performance as a result of better tournament preparation by all our team on the world stage could / would result in more money being given to us as a sport. If more money means that representing your country in any of the age groups becomes cheaper for team members then we could well and truly see more put their hands up to represent and not have to invite bowlers or field only ½ the contingent required as was the case with the Seniors team this year.
I’m not looking to rubbish anyone, I’m just trying to throw a little bit of thinking outside of the box that will hopefully have our nationally ranked tournaments set up to be a test of skill and ability rather than the carry-a-thons we have seen. Perhaps the new technical high performance committee will be looking at this and establishing a minimum standard pattern for each of our 3 major tours. Here’s hoping.
strop
Elite Athlete
First of all,
I would expect these 50+ have had enough experience to know what to do when hitting a harder condition, surely the likes of the great Mr. Lovell plus other know the difference. And I agree with him, bowl what you are given with at the time.
And for the other ..
I think Brenton will tell us, but I'm sure from what I heard, they were ditched up pretty well.
Again if you want to prepare yourself all from 1 week away, have your special training squad on tougher conditions if thats what they want.
But to the broader "not going away senior public" they don't want the tougher condtions, and yes I'm sure they don't want the really easier conditions either, but I don't see too many of them jumping around at these tournament complaining about them. (And I'm sure some of them can still jump) Not me of course......
At the end of the day, most do not care about the politics of patterns,
they just want to bowl and enjoy themselves, and go home thinking, whether it's real or not, I bowled well.
Cheers
Tony
I would expect these 50+ have had enough experience to know what to do when hitting a harder condition, surely the likes of the great Mr. Lovell plus other know the difference. And I agree with him, bowl what you are given with at the time.
And for the other ..
I think Brenton will tell us, but I'm sure from what I heard, they were ditched up pretty well.
Again if you want to prepare yourself all from 1 week away, have your special training squad on tougher conditions if thats what they want.
But to the broader "not going away senior public" they don't want the tougher condtions, and yes I'm sure they don't want the really easier conditions either, but I don't see too many of them jumping around at these tournament complaining about them. (And I'm sure some of them can still jump) Not me of course......
At the end of the day, most do not care about the politics of patterns,
they just want to bowl and enjoy themselves, and go home thinking, whether it's real or not, I bowled well.
Cheers
Tony
Hi Graham (Shoey)
The seniors bowled 3 ranked seasons on Challenge Patterns only to be presented in Japan with a 7:1 and Manilla 10:1 and not a dime out of the ASC, or anyone else for that matter.
The bowlers making comments about having a "good time" are those that cash when they bowl on any condition and lefties, to boot (Sorry guys, no offence mean't, just a fact). It is certainly no fun when you get to the Nationals and have no idea how to bowl on the Sports Pattern.
Having injuries and ailments should not be used for making it easier. The conditions we are bowling on require, more often than not, more muscle power, which a good proportion of the Ladies, in particular, do not have, which in turn leads to more injury. Therefore, you dry lanes up, and you favour the more powerful bowler.
In my humble opinion we should use patterns around 6 or 7 to 1 and set them for all national seniors tournaments. This would create different conditions in different centres because of lane type, weather, time of year etc.
Therefore the better bowler will still finish high up and the up and coming bowlers will appreciate the challenge and, of course, the ladies won't have to force the ball to make a shot.
The seniors bowled 3 ranked seasons on Challenge Patterns only to be presented in Japan with a 7:1 and Manilla 10:1 and not a dime out of the ASC, or anyone else for that matter.
The bowlers making comments about having a "good time" are those that cash when they bowl on any condition and lefties, to boot (Sorry guys, no offence mean't, just a fact). It is certainly no fun when you get to the Nationals and have no idea how to bowl on the Sports Pattern.
Having injuries and ailments should not be used for making it easier. The conditions we are bowling on require, more often than not, more muscle power, which a good proportion of the Ladies, in particular, do not have, which in turn leads to more injury. Therefore, you dry lanes up, and you favour the more powerful bowler.
In my humble opinion we should use patterns around 6 or 7 to 1 and set them for all national seniors tournaments. This would create different conditions in different centres because of lane type, weather, time of year etc.
Therefore the better bowler will still finish high up and the up and coming bowlers will appreciate the challenge and, of course, the ladies won't have to force the ball to make a shot.
Anthony L
Tony Long
Well said Stephen Bell l too am wondering why people who are NOT Seniors are telling us how to run our successful Organisation... Why are the Seniors are so successful is because of the conditions we bowl on and if the conditions are made harder and joe average bowler goes home after averaging 160 to 175 do you think he/she will layout another $200 entry fee plus air fares plus accommodation on other tournaments.... Like Strop said "they just want to bowl and enjoy themselves, and go home thinking, whether it's real or not, I bowled well."
Cheers Tony
Cheers Tony
not telling you how to run your organisation and never will. i, like Jason Doust, have a huge love and concern for our sport and making it so easy i believe doesnt do us a whole lot of good in the credibility stakes.
i personally believe you and any other organisation can do what you please when it comes to running your tournaments, however if your patterns are not up to a minimum standard of say 6:1 or 7:1 and edge to edge the tournament should have no rankings points applied nor should TBA honor any 300's etc.
i personally believe you and any other organisation can do what you please when it comes to running your tournaments, however if your patterns are not up to a minimum standard of say 6:1 or 7:1 and edge to edge the tournament should have no rankings points applied nor should TBA honor any 300's etc.
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