Bronze, Silver and GOLD patterns!

[Troyza]

Mate i have lived and breathed Bowling thru my son for 12 years, i have also Managed and coached State and Australian Teams in that period,I believe i no the difference and the pressure that is on a bowler at league , State and Australian level.
Which guys?????
The ones that seem to think that all 300's are equall.
Cheers
Paul K.

I like how you think. You put it in a nut shell with your previous post, but these people who have thrown a 300 on THS, ( & can't realise the fact that it is about 500% easier to throw 300 on it ), compared to throwing one in a harder atmosphere / condition probably have a lot of pride in the way of their reasoning.

Having league / state / national / international labels would be an ok idea. No one is taking away anything from any 300 bowled. But people are joking if they think league night compares to SPC (for eg) in terms of composure.

 

[Buzzer]

The sport needs to grow and it needs guys like Belmo and so many more to bring ideas like this to the table. We can't deny that bowling is a fading sport and we all knock new ideas because they are different or they "may" upset the person next to us. not everyone was happy with one day cricket when that was introduced but its still here today and pretty successful but having some form of grading policy isn't a bad idea. Maybe not just on 300's but on other variables of our game, league, conditioning, centre etc etc.

The only thing i wouldn't agree on is the fact that and i may have picked it up wrong but again not hard to find out and put the ideas forward would be that your average everyday league bowler and part time tournament bowler may never get the oportunity to bowl on a Gold pattern condition as often as your Aussie Rep. My only hope would be that these creditation's would become available to a sports league where they could get the recognition for this grading with honour scores and not available just for High end tournaments and overseas Reps. I don't think i will be travelling overseas anytime soon but would love the opportunity to get the maximum recognition of class in my sport. this being a Gold rated 300 in this scenario. If this couldn't be achieved in the entry level of our sport then I wouldn't be for it.

If it were to be available however this would also need to be somewhat heavily policed and we are low on volunteers and credited coaches for this to be certified without costs to TBA to send people at such short notice to verify if a condition was GOLD , SILVER or BRONZE or whatever system that was in place. Could the staff of every centre be credited to check - thats hard to monitor also. you would need unbias testers to resolve conflicts of interest.

"Idea" Centres could apply for certification to lay Gold & Silver conditions - pay a fee (through the leagues- only those who apply for this class) and are monitored by independent tests through out the year. if they fail to meet standards they are given warnings to get there act together. I suppose similar to those of car yards and Mechanics who offer a road worthy. that way all honour scores are of finding as of latest testing and certification. if found to be dodgy they have there license removed. Just an idea people don't shoot me.

I love the idea belmo and wish you all the best. its just a hard one to get going with so many variables in play. again just another idea but maybe bowling needs a players association similar to that of the AFL to discuss such things with the TBA. Again probably hard to organise but i bet you will only get the commited people turning up which was what we need. commited individuals to help Tenpin go forward. Last idea is probably over the top but wouldn't it be good to see Tenpin Bowling in the same class or RESPECT as AFL. thats all I'm saying people.

cheers

Mark.

 

[jason_doust]

So many valid points being raised here. It's encouraging.

Does anyone know how much pattern testing tapes and readers are?

 

[GoTheCell]

And for those that say not all people have the chance to travel and bowl in tournaments...yea right ,they choose not to!!!!!!!Especially with the amount of small tournies in each state nowadays.
Cheers
Paul K.

Want to explain to people who live hours from the nearest other centre (eg. Sunraysia bowlers) why travelling, accomodation etc is not expensive when that is the reason they choose not to travel? You are a short-sided idiot and you need to look at reality.

 

[CSP]

Belmo, I believe this idea is the best.

At the AGM, one topic was about how to increase memberships. I agree with Belmo and the TBA that we need to re-educate the public. The big picture needs to be looked at and all bowlers need to understand that. Memberships and the survival of TBA will not increase unless the image and structure of Australian Tenpin Bowling changes.

I believe that a Bronze, Silver, Gold award system is the first step towards educating the public who might be interested in tenpin bowling but doesn't understand the technology of lane patterns and basically doesn't now what tenpin bowling is about.

The sport has huge potential to grow its memberships but to attract the 6 million people participating into memberships need education about the sport and explaining the system. This Bronze, Silver, Gold system for awards is the easiest way to explain to the social bowler who is interested in competition play about lane patterns and the difficulty level.

I hope this idea has been forwarded to the TBA to begin progress for change in 2009.

 

[ShadowKnight]

And for those that say not all people have the chance to travel and bowl in tournaments...yea right ,they choose not to!!!!!!!Especially with the amount of small tournies in each state nowadays.
Cheers
Paul K.
Want to explain to people who live hours from the nearest other centre (eg. Sunraysia bowlers) why travelling, accomodation etc is not expensive when that is the reason they choose not to travel? You are a short-sided idiot and you need to look at reality.

Particularly true of nationals with the large country we live in. When I lived in WA bowling in nationals simply was not an option due to the ridiculous cost barriers to get to the event (ie. flights, accommodation and travel to/from the centre). There was not really another feasible option.

I guess though back then I chose to eat and pay the bills rather than bowl!

 

[gaz030781]

I agree that bowling a 300 can be easier depending on the lane pattern etc. However I think a graded system will cheapen what could have been a difficult game. I bowl league in one centre which is relatively easy and one which is very difficult, more so than most tournaments I bowl in.

That centre which I will not name plays like it is a reverse block straight out of the box, unlike sports patterns which generally become a little reversed after a while of bowling.

My point is that just because it's in league or regional stuff doens't mean it's easier than say a national or state tournament. Look at last years state championships/masters at Aspley, I'm shocked there wasn't a few bowled.

I think the only possible way of doing some sort of a system is by making it pattern based. Basic league, tournament and sports etc. Still doesn't take certain centres with what I like to call unusual pattern disorder (top hat pattern that plays like it's upside down). haha

 

[cruzer]

Want to explain to people who live hours from the nearest other centre (eg. Sunraysia bowlers) why travelling, accomodation etc is not expensive when that is the reason they choose not to travel? You are a short-sided idiot and you need to look at reality.
2 Hours Ago 12:13 PM

Good on you Mate......down to name calling are we!!!!!!!!!

I have been coaching a South Australian state team now for a few years in both Youth and Rachuig and go away regularly and pay the same amount less bowling fee's as the bowlers,so dont tell me to have a look at reality..

I save and funraise all year long to take the teams away,and yes i have a mortgage and kids at home and bills like the rest of us...and it all boils down to wanting something bad enough and not just crying about it.

As for tournaments....its called planning,sharing costs and saving, I never said that it was not expensive,I just said .... WE ALL HAVE A CHOICE!!!!..it just depends on how much you are prepared to give up for your SPORT.

Cheers

Paul K.

 

[jockey]

For all those quibling about whether their 300 gets recognised as a bronze, silver or gold let me throw this at you.

With Belmo's suggestion you at least get a recognised 300 but if you want to be pedantic and have no flexibility to lessen the classing of the game then let me throw this scenario at you:

Let's say you bowl in a Gold classed event and a bowler bowls a 300 (fantastic) however the lanes are checked and it turns out that the lanes do not meet the gold level criteria that you insist is strictly adhered too. No felixibility for lessening the level means that this bowler who through no fault of their own (lanes compliance rests with the centre) now does not get a recognised 300.

I would like to see anyone disagree with me that the bowler deserves to have a recognised 300 and with Belmo's outline for level guidlines it would be recognised as a Silver level 300 game and the bowler would be happy. All those not liking the Gold/Silver/Bronze classes are condeming this bowler to a miserable scenario now aren't you. Ask yourself honestly how you would feel if the bowler was you and then I think you will know the answer.

As to the centre's responsibility on this that is another question that would need to be addressed.

 

[BELMO]

For all those quibling about whether their 300 gets recognised as a bronze, silver or gold let me throw this at you.
With Belmo's suggestion you at least get a recognised 300 but if you want to be pedantic and have no flexibility to lessen the classing of the game then let me throw this scenario at you:
Let's say you bowl in a Gold classed event and a bowler bowls a 300 (fantastic) however the lanes are checked and it turns out that the lanes do not meet the gold level criteria that you insist is strictly adhered too. No felixibility for lessening the level means that this bowler who through no fault of their own (lanes compliance rests with the centre) now does not get a recognised 300.
I would like to see anyone disagree with me that the bowler deserves to have a recognised 300 and with Belmo's outline for level guidlines it would be recognised as a Silver level 300 game and the bowler would be happy. All those not liking the Gold/Silver/Bronze classes are condeming this bowler to a miserable scenario now aren't you. Ask yourself honestly how you would feel if the bowler was you and then I think you will know the answer.
As to the centre's responsibility on this that is another question that would need to be addressed.

Terry,

Thats the whole idea about this.....

If you lay a GOLD pattern then the education of 'the lane man' must also be of higher quality.
The sport side of bowling is what we are trying to build with this concept.
Now i know there are many lane guys out there who know how to lay down what ever pattern they want, but there are many out there who only know the basics.

If a bowling centre wants to lay down harder patterns, then it has to teach its backend staff how to use the machine properly.

This in turn (all this extra knowledge going around) should help with tournament patterns, league patterns and any kind of SPORT pattern to be oiled correctly, thus making the honour score worthy.

If the lanes are checked and the pattern was not a gold, then you didnt bowl a 300 on a gold pattern, be as pissed off as you want, but the fact remained that it was not the hardest level of patterning you COULD of bowled on.

Then after all that, find out from management what the hell happened!

Belmo

 

[ShadowKnight]

Of course that is only relevant if you care about the sub-level of the score. To many of the average Joe's amongst us a 300 is a 300 whenever it is bowled, as such most will be ecstatic with whatever level of 300 they attain, and quite rightly so. Further, it will be recognised.

However it will be graded according to the true difficulty of its attainment, as stated for most league bowlers this is a behind the scenes grading. For those that care what class of 300 it was, and are disappointed it was not what was expected then sure chase the centre management to find out why it was not as expected.

 

[AdrianS]

Im not a fan of pretty colours or amusing animal names getting attached to oiling patterns at all. Fairness comes from all styles having an equal as possible chance to score, not messing with the scoring level. Leave scores out of it and work on laying conditions that are fairer in that way, even if they are cake. Wether it be pattern shifts, more oil or (get ready!!!) LESS oil to make them fairer do it that way. Just dont go "ok outside of 10 board is shut out, they're fair now!!" Coz guess what?? They AINT!!

 

[Phluff]

A 300 is a 300. Nobody is disputing this point. If someone has the nerve and consistancy to roll a 300 then they deserve an award. I do however agree with Belmo & others on the fact that the skill level involved in bowling a 300 on say a 40ft flat condition as opposed to a THS is vastly different. I can't believe anyone who knows the slightest bit about bowling would say that they are the same.

Awards and even sanctioning of the league or tournament should reflect this. The simple fact is that some leagues bowl on a pattern where at the end of the season it is common to have had 10 300's bowled. Others bowl on "sport" conditions where there might only be 1 300 if that.

Name one other sport where a top achievment in local competition ranks the same as in international. Golf is a sport that is often compared with Bowling. Would you say that an even round at the local public course is just as good as an even round at St Andrews? Is an even practice round at St Andrews just the same as doing it during the British Open?

The idea of grading oil patterns and lanes is one that needs to taken serriously. Not just to restore the word "Honour" to awards. The decline in tournament numbers is partly due to the diffrerence in oil conditions. A local bowler who averages 220 on the THS in league but only averages 180 on a 2:1 tournament pattern isn't going to bowl that event again. Maybe if there was a grading of the patterns and the bowler could see BEFORE the event that his 220 was on a C grade condition and the tournament was an A grade condition then they wouldn't walk away as disapointed.

 

[Amf Facilities]

This idea is big in the States
Kegel have created the navigation series of patterns
and done all of the home work.

For anyone interested take a look at http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/default.asp

and check out the Navigation series

 

[AdrianS]

Those i like because they seem to fill the 'middle ground' between THS and Sport stuff.

 

[Troyza]

Then middle ground would = silver class.

 

[da_cowman]

The idea of grading oil patterns and lanes is one that needs to taken serriously. Not just to restore the word "Honour" to awards. The decline in tournament numbers is partly due to the diffrerence in oil conditions. A local bowler who averages 220 on the THS in league but only averages 180 on a 2:1 tournament pattern isn't going to bowl that event again. Maybe if there was a grading of the patterns and the bowler could see BEFORE the event that his 220 was on a C grade condition and the tournament was an A grade condition then they wouldn't walk away as disapointed.

That right there is the absolutle key.

Average Joe has no prior knowledge before the tournament has to how difficult, or stupidly ditched, the lanes are going to be. They expect to bowl about average. Because, low and behold, that's their average! The Sports Series here in NSW has no troubles getting back the bowlers that only averaged 160 from a 180 or even 200 league average. It's often these guys who are the ones saying halfway through the event that they are loving it. Why? Because they have been given the knowledge that these tournaments are going to tough. All we had to do was put 'Sport' in the title and explain to them what that meant in regards to tournament conditions.
Throw in GOLD, SILVER and BRONZE. There you have it, straight up, you know whether your gonna need a 190, 2o or 220 average to cut straight up. everyone will know. Even people who have no concept of oil conditions (I, by and large, mean the general public here) can understand the concept easily. It'll create an interest in the events. Especially the Gold events. Lastly, it just may mean we don't have to add 'Sport' to a tournament name for our sport to be treated like one. Just GOLD...

I believe it comes down to two things. Toughing up our average tournament play. Coupled together with an increased amounts of knowledge accessable to Average Joe. Once they understand the difference, they can respect the difference. And if the people who play once a week can finally respect the sport totally and completely, maybe we might get everyone else to as well...

Rant over.

Later Da Cowman!

 

[akdefl]

Here's a curious point to ask. Who sets the standard for what is gold, silver or bronze?
Is there a different standard for each center, meaning, different lane surfaces, pins, what oil they use, cleaner, lane machine, humidity etc.
What if a Gold pattern in a certain center, scored through the roof and you needed 220 to cut, but in another center u needed 190? Does the first center get downgraded after the event just caused it scored easier? Is any 300 thrown on that then looked at by everyone as being easy, and shouldn't have been a gold pattern 300, should only be acknowledged as a silver or bronze pattern 300? It doesn't matter what pattern a 300 is bowled on, it's still a 300. You still get bloody nervous for the last 3 strikes, a lot more than the first 9. And, if it was so easy to bowl 300 on it, why didn't half the field bowl 300's on it??? The last couple years i can't remember more than a handful, maybe 4 or 5 being rolled in the same event. I am probably wrong, but i am also talking about the highly ranked and double ranked events here.

The principle behind it is good, i am sure that i read someone from Kegel a few years ago throw around the same idea, might have been different, but i also think that this is why they came up with the navigator series patterns. But there are so many more variables to take into consideration. I think we are at a point now where it doesn't matter what condition a 300 is bowled on, there will always be some people questioning how much it was really deserved, and that's sad.

I mean whats next, someone who doesn't leave a frame open in a tournament, are people going to start saying conditions were set up for sparing, rather than saying, geez that's impressive, wish i could not leave so many single pin misses.....

 

[AdrianS]

Food for thought there, learning what role the lane surface itself plays is key too. Maybe a 'Gold' lane surface is sloped 20thou down from 10 to the gutter on both sides and 125 thou back at the pin deck to mess with ball reaction and carry!!

 

[da_cowman]

Here's a curious point to ask. Who sets the standard for what is gold, silver or bronze?
Is there a different standard for each center, meaning, different lane surfaces, pins, what oil they use, cleaner, lane machine, humidity etc.
What if a Gold pattern in a certain center, scored through the roof and you needed 220 to cut, but in another center u needed 190?

Definately not an ultimate answer here. But maybe, we have to actually set standards for centres who want to hold an event. The lanes must but up to a certain standard and using a oiling machine and oil that is accepted.

You won't find Major Golf tournaments played without grass in the fairway would you? Why can't bowling centres live up to expectations as well???

Later Da Cowman!