Belconen Hole opps Bowl

[Trace]

all i can say is that from someone who is leaving the sport if your not enjoying the game don't do it. if there are that many things that are ticking you off what is the point of continuing? i have been around this sport for 20yrs and i have played for 13. i am not bowling the best that i can and i blame myself and above all i don't enjoy it anywhere near where i once did. the managers and their team do the best they can and all these comments will be hurting them...try and step into their shoes and listen to a million complaints and try and please everyone at the same time. see how far you get. You can't be happy all the time...i wish i could be, just enjoy the sport and play it the way you did the first time you picked up your ball, how great it felt to be apart of a sport that you can play with anyone and everyone at anytime of the year, and if your lucky represent your bowl, state or country.

 

[ilive2bowl]

Belconnen

As a bowling centre proprietor in Canberra, I am always interested in the 'posts' of bowlers in the area. This Forum is a excellent way in which we can hear and respond to suggestions by our customers and it would be foolish of any of us NOT to listen regardless of how derogatory their complaints might be. I know that at Tuggers we try to put down a playable condition for all our Leagues but sometimes we suffer from either machine or human failure. Hopefully, on balance, we get it more right than wrong! BUT BE ASSURED we do try to get it right ALL THE TIME! Hey Drew...this is one expensive 'alley'......just kidding!

 

[Greg Ward]

My observations.

Point 1:

There is a general thread throughout these forums bagging APF centres. I’ve only bowled regularly in one APF centre – that being Woden last year.

Now given Drew talked up Woden on how it is a better centre this year compared to years gone by, I went there on Sunday expecting something might have changed, but I must admit once again I was disappointed.

Apart from the normal delays, IE having to wait a good 20 minutes for the lanes to be oiled (when there was more than 15 bowlers who had turned up to train), and then when we thought we were all set to go, there were more “problems” and sure enough in a three game block on a single pair of lanes we must have had to re rack at least 6 – 8 times.

So from my experience on Sunday – Woden doesn’t appear to be any better than last year. Now this is my experience from one day….maybe it was just the odd bad day and every other day this year Woden may have been great.

Point 2:

Once again there is the general comment that it is the bowlers responsibility to “talk to the centre manager and voice their dissatisfaction when conditions are not to their individual liking or when there are equipment break downs etc”.

Well how about looking at it the other way, shouldn’t the management/on duty staff have a responsibility to inform patrons “to expect dry lanes tonight because we haven’t oiled etc”. Or when there are continually break downs (which was the norm at Woden all of last year) to acknowledge that there is a problem and to then go out of their way for the patrons that are inconvenienced.

On more than one occasion last year (once again at the AMF Woden centre) we had to change lanes three times within a 4 game series in a normal league night and subsequently take an extra hour because of break downs.

Not even one word of apology or concern or even acceptance that there was a problem from either the centre staff or centre management – it appeared to be that staff were implying that bowler should expect this.

Given Reg’s comments that started this topic off, there was a problem on a specific night at Belconnen and maybe a general announcement from staff before the league started saying “Hay - we know the conditions tonight are going to be “different” and/or tough and the reason is….”

That is going to be more accepted than just pretend that everything is unchanged.
Obviously it is not only Reg that is currently dissatisfied with Belconnen, (Graham and Jan have confirmed this by their comments).

How about centre management or duty staff offering a few carefully chosen words before a league starts describing why tonight’s condition will be “different” and that might go a long way towards reducing the dissatisfaction of bowlers and consequently reduce the likelihood of bowlers having to resort to forums like this.

Point 3:

Scoops and to a lesser extent Drew, Scott isn’t the one you are talking to here. How about treating a person as an individual and not as someone else’s brother.

Point 4:

On a positive point, is there any ACT state teams (Rachuig, Juniors, Seniors or past legends) who are good enough to challenge the De Veer teams in a state teams challenge? There seems to be enough people out there prepared to bag De Veer bowlers - lets see what you can do on the lanes.

The De Veer teams have had it scheduled in their diaries for a while now - how about the rest of you or “are ya CHICKEN” :lol: and don’t want to be beaten by a lowly ranked De Veer bowler or De Veer team?

How about you stand up and be counted. We're ready and waiting - any time, any condition and most defintely any ALLEY.

Greg.

 

[Bert]

Hmmm

Oh what fun we are all having.....

All alleys (sorry Al and Roy) do make every effort to provide a nice lane condition and working machines for every person who attends their facilities.

Greg, what can i say .....you must obviously be a jinx.... but on the serious note, AMF are investing serious $$ in the upgrading of Woden and having bowled there virtually every monday night this year and in the Rachuig trials, the conditions have improved Immensley and the breakdowns are minimal to non-existent. I also find it hard to beleive that the staff were not apologetic when the lanes broke down. Now i wasnt there on the day in question, but the staff that Ive known at Woden over the last 10 years have all been very polite and at times when the machines were experiencing numerous problems, went out of their way to bring you up-to-date on what was happening, and even on numerous times compensated the bowlers by offering them free drinks and on some occasions even refunded them their bowling fees....I dont know of any other alley (or centre for Al and Roy) that has done that for patrons who have been disadvantaged by machine breakdowns.

I was also a little confused by your comments that a cent..oops Alley. :lol: .should tell you the condition you will be bowling on each night....if that happens then you or any other person, will never learn any skills in the area's of reading a lane.....next people will be wanting tony greig's key test of the lanes before each night of league.....

This whole post started with some comments that perhaps should have been made personally to the manager rather than on this forum, and some of the comments following have had me both nodding in agreement and scratching my head in wonder at some of the personal attacks on individuals...

In the end it comes down to the fact that you will not get the same condition every night and if you did, you'd only be doing your own game harm because you'd never learn to adjust....

If you find that you are consistantly getting bad conditions on your league night...speak to other leagues in the alley and get their oppinion....if its the same for all then perhaps go to another bowl...if it is a case of just your league suffering, then TALK to the management......


Bert

PS Greg....how much start does de veer want...

 

[Greg Ward]

Bert,

I reckon a handicap of 100% of 210 - highest league or tornament average for the year to date is probably the right formula.

We could go for something like a handicap based on the bowlers age - number of years bowled, but there would probably be too many non De Veer bowlers disadvantaged if we went down that path.

Greg.

 

[Matt Francis]

Hay guys get rid of the mother hood statements. Too dry, too oil, no back end, revers blocks.

How about you spent some time with the bowls and with your hands in your pockets for the costs and set up a just right condition.

Or even note down the units of oil you reckon would make the correct lane condition for all the centres. Im sure they would be grateful for it

Then open it up for comment and play on it, I'm sure people will come back to the same base. Too dry, too oil, too long too short or breaks down to quick.

Greg, Im sure the Rachuig Team is always willing to bowl against the De Veer Team in or out side the State or National Tourns. I'm sure you'd like to keep it a scratch event to ensure an equal playing field.

Matt F

 

[Grim64]

But....................................wil the lane, alley, centre conditions suit De Veer or Rachuig :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Graham

 

[Greg Ward]

Hey Matt,

Given you're not Rachuig'ing this year do you reckon you could put together a legends team? I hear the Rachuig team is after a bit of competition for 3rd place behind the two De Veer teams.

G.

 

[Matt Francis]

Greg

How about a team of past bowlers, legends is such a strong word.

Me, Weenie (Darren Ulrich), Fatty (Damian Fairbrother), GOD (scott Gooch. Maybe for 1 day), Richo (Kevin Richardson, If hes still around and allowed to enter a bowl) Polly (Graham Pollard), Dalli (John Dalsanto) Zorati (John Zorati)

Leave it with me I'll see who I can dig up literally not physically.

Matt F

 

[Greg Ward]

Looks like a team of legends to me.....only problem you will need more than an 8 man team if we bowl more than two or three games....Ya gotta remember that at least three of them will need to be running/walking/crawling to the bar to keep the rest of the old fellas well lubricated.

G.

 

[stormy]

With the way some of the junior bowlers are bowling lately. I would say ( my monies on them) that they would give the Deveer team a run for their money.

And there a quite a few bowlers that are in between teams that would also give you guys a rubbing.

But as for handicap lets make it real 66.66% of 210 or 75% of 210, none of this 100% of 210. If you want to win make it interesting.

 

[Bert]

Great... :shock:

Matt a legend....now we'll never shut him up.....

Now smurf

Richo should have served his time by now....just dont know if he has any lawn bowls left...

Dally and Zoro on the same pair.....no one said it was a 24hr marathon.... :lol: :lol:

Weeny, Goochie and Damo....the old we could if we really wanted too....comments will be flying every where.....

But a challenging team all together....you might even be able to con your bro back...just gotta get him a ball passed the U-Dot era...

Greg and Stormy... no handicap....you want a challenge...then go scratch....given some of the exagerated averages of the other states in the past (they know who they are) you will be giving 20+ pins to 195 avg bowlers..... :roll: :roll:


Bert

 

[DrewC]

Belconnen

Hey there Greg and all,

Greg point one,

If the Machines played up really badly when you were there please don't come back...we've been having a good year.

Honestly I said they have been working their bums off to make the place better I didn't say it was perfect nowhere is, unfortunately it looks as though you copped a bad day I know the centre Management would be disapointed you had a bad experience.

2
I find it hard to believe that the centre or any centre would ignore your complaints and refuse to acknowledge there is a problem, clearly Woden management and AMF has as they are shelling out some fairly substancial money upgrading Woden.

The condtions argument can go on for ever. Regs problem seemed to be the school kids are always on the lanes first hence they never get a first up condition. (I think it was that anyway) He stated he quite likes the lanes at Belco when they are fresh. Having said that we he likes them there will be people who hate them. It's a never ending circle you can't please everyone.
The only time that you would consider it fair for a centre to have tell bowlers of a change in conditions if when there is an equipment failure or something similar, otherwise define a condition what is it to you?

3.
Mate sorry to offend you, Reg wasn't not that I said anything derogatory to him anyway.

4.
No worries you guys are on. But are we all getting hcp this year
or do we get to give 300 start per game like last year? Where we flogged you guys as per usual.
:wink:

P.S
Roy you'll have to ask Al about the Alley thing..it is a nice alley i must admit. :wink:

 

[Greg Ward]

Stormy,

I can just see the headlines now, "Juniors trounce Rachuig and Legends".

Bert,

With a handicap event you might just get a start with some of the Juniors, or do you reckon you can match it with them head to head?

Drew,

I agree with you on the Belconnen lane condition thing - I think we have all had our say. And on the Woden breakdown issue, as I said we may have just copped a bad day on Sunday.

De Veer, Rachuig, Legends, Juniors and room for one or two more teams. Any ideas?

Greg.

 

[stormy]

I'm sure the seniors might like to put in a team, but we may have to wait while they play, as the longest walk they do is the 15 foot (step) approach, tires the oldies out.

The other centres may like to put in a team or two.

Maybe the centres could put up a trophy (money always good) or two.

They will need some practice

Rachuig teams do need more practice at bending the elbow
Seniors need straws (the use of bendable straws allowed)
Deveer well, there still on soft drinks (straight from the bottle)
Juniors there are on powerade (they have the power)
the in-betweens they have got it all - no powerade - got rid of the soft drinks - able to bend straws with tree fingers and - have a continual bent elbow no need to practice.


Guinness all round, a real drink (for those that can handle it) not that washed out light ale.

Stormy

 

[DrewC]

Belco

Stormy if you want to drink that Muddy black muck you'd best speak to Scoops or Colin Hunt.
Give me a nice scotch.

Careful bagging out those seniors too Mikey gets upset. 8)

 

[Greg Ward]

Hmmm....is there scope here for the winning team to prosper to the value of a small ale or two to be provided by the other teams?

Or is the incentive of wapping all of the other teams enough?

G.

 

[gjelectrics1]

Furher to Greg's comments that we had a bad day on Sunday. That would be an understatemant. I had a ball damaged and while I realise that damage does occurr sometimes I do not expect to be told by a "control staff" that it was my fault. This was after he was told several times that there was a ball stuck down the back and he did not do anything about it. When he was shown the damage when I Eventually got my ball back he looked at it and basically said "So what". He eventually came up to me and told me to ring the centre manager later in the week. Some of the staff at woden really do need a rocket up their a**e. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Reg Gooch]

Just thought i would let you all know that i have had a few conversations with Wendy Campbell (Manager for ACT centers) and after talking to her i was happy with the outcome of these talks. Wendy was an absolute profesional with the way she treated my problems and gave me a satisfactory response in relation to these problems . Now as to the debate over the state challenge as far as i am aware it will be Rachuig, Seniors and Deveer. I personally think it should be scratch event it is for the experience of bowling with the Rachuig and seniors not who can win it. Just think though it would be more satisfying to beat the open bowlers off the stick and you never know it might happen in a few games. Now for the comments in relation to Woden and remember this is only my opinion, I thought the lanes were good i had no incidences of break downs or other problems, and i am looking forward to the state championships.
So once again congratulations to Wendy at AMF.

 

[TazDevil27]

I'm a bit disappointed at the level of conversation that this topic has taken.

I agree with the comments about getting out of the sport if you are not happy with it.

On behalf of the disabled bowling community in Canberra, I would like to say that a majority of the centres in Canberra provide very good condition, both on the lanes and off the lanes. In June, the National Disablities Championships were held at Belconnen. Everyone that attended thought the conditions were great and the only comments that were made was to do with wheelchair access. I know that Wendy Campbell has been working on this, and this is appreciated. I also know that Wendy is trying to improve things on the access side at Woden. Tuggeranong, being the newest, is almost perfect for disabled bowling, especially in relation to access. (A few more lane ramps couldn't go astray though!!!). Queanbeyan, and I have spoken to Scott about this, is not a centre that will every be suitable to hold a disabled tournament as due to the cost involved in bringing up to a standard to allow what is required for wheelchair access. Over all I think all the centre are doing a great job.

I am also abit disappointed that whenever a challenge between the ACT rep teams is suggested, it always seems that the ACT Oakford Disabled Rep team is left out of the equation.

For everyone's information, the Oakford State Team Challenge is the Disabilites Nationals equivalent of the Rachuigh, De Veer and President Shield Tournaments. Each year we have a selection trial to pick the state team, and the ACT team has won the Oakford 3 time in the 7 years that it has been running. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe (Besides this years ACT/Southern NSW President's Sheild Boys Team that won at the Juniors - with no ACT representation) the ACT Oakford Disabled Team is the only ACT Rep team to have won a National title more than once. (Sorry if I forgot about the seniors, but I'm not sure what the go is there). Yet, everytime it has been brought up about the ACT Rep teams competing against each other, the disabled team is not informed or is told at the last minute and we don't have the time to organise the guys.

If we are invited, I would be in favour of the original suggestion 100% of 210.

Sorry to sound bitter. But this has been going on for a number of years and I don't think the disabled are getting the recognition they deserve.