Australia's team @ Men's World Championships
- Thread starter wchester
- Start date
Or let's look at it another way....
Our cricketers are paid a better salary than I am - they get to follow their dreams and indulge in their passion. In my employment, I would hardly call my feelings passionate, yet I perform more consistantly than they do, so I believe I have a right to "want blood" when Ricky can get the best out of the Australian team, or when Pup fails with the bat. They still get paid. Our bowlers pay their own way, are lacking preparation, hold down daily jobs, etc. Yet they go over there and bust their arses like their life depends on it. They could win, yet once this is over they will not be rewarded like our cricketers, with ticker tape parades and such.
This is a p!ss poor thread. We all already know that Australian bowling is underfunded. I think we all need to stop responding when Wayne posts stupid comments like this.
Anyway....
The last part of the teams is streaming live now - go enjoy it knowing that a group of guys are over there doing us proud! They still have a chance of making the teams finals!
Troyza
Flash
I dont see how his post or any post is stupid... people just assumed he was insulting the bowlers when his original point (as he stated) was how broken the system is. People probably shouldn't take things to heart online anyways... & quit finding people to take their frustrations out on.
Shayne Melton
Member
His very first post is very offensive to the bowlers that are over there. And I know that they're not happy about it.
What is embarrassing is the total lack of respect for the ones that are willing to put their hands up and go and do it.
PS. Still waiting to hear about Mr Chester's master plan to fix it all????
jonodabomb
Just a Bowler!
Well maybe if he didn't take so long to clarify exactly what this retarded thread was about then there would be no insults being thrown backwards and forwards..
jonodabomb
Just a Bowler!
Agreed, He better have a good story if it is taking sooooo long...
Missy89
Mad Chick!
Again, like i said before, he is an ADULT!
He should know that there are ways of expressing your opinions without insulting some extremely nice people, not to mention the fact that they are GREAT bowlers!!
Everyone has a bad day, or a bad tournament. I'm sure all the top Australian bowlers will agree with that! And with regards to the cricket team, I am someone who sat back and said "They must have had a bad run. Better luck next year!"
Grow some balls and admit that you worded it wrong.
Then we can all get on with it.
Tony Aarons
Member
The same thing has happened to me when representing, you think you have the armoury and the game plan, you get to the centre and your struck down as everything is different to what you planned, leave the guys alone, they are working the best they can with the systems we have. Until there is proper funding in our sport, this will continue to happen... BE PROUD BE AUSSIE !
wchester
Bowling Tragic
I have not singled out any bowler's performance. Overall, the results have been disappointing. If you can't agree with that statement, then you've got your head in the sand. I'm going to pledge $100 towards funding our representative team's expenses for the next international event. When a total of $20,000 is pledged, and accepted by the TBA, then we can see some change.
Holy crap... I would hate to see the reaction of some people if they received real criticism... FFS these guys are bowling in the world champs and they are worried about someone being embarrassed...
Brenton_Davy
900Global bowler
First off, I don't believe for one minute that Wayne was intending to have a dig at the bowlers, but the system that puts Australian bowling in this situation. Secondly, the TBA is financially hamstrung through no fault of its own, but due to issues with its previous incarnation, so it cannot assist the teams in the manner we all think it should.
Until the current crop of youth players become regular members of the Australian team, the current results will continue. The current crop of youth players are far more equipped to handle difficult conditions than the current adult players around the country and appear to actually WANT to bowl on tough patterns while the older players seem to, in the main, prefer the softer, higher scoring, average inflating patterns we usually see in Australia.
We need:
1. Better funding that must, in turn be turned into
2. Better preparation
Until the current crop of youth players become regular members of the Australian team, the current results will continue. The current crop of youth players are far more equipped to handle difficult conditions than the current adult players around the country and appear to actually WANT to bowl on tough patterns while the older players seem to, in the main, prefer the softer, higher scoring, average inflating patterns we usually see in Australia.
We need:
1. Better funding that must, in turn be turned into
2. Better preparation
BELMO
Member
First off - The boys over there are wearing the green and gold proudly and doing their best to knock over the pins.
We all know this - including Wayne.
We all respect the bowlers over there and we all truly wish that they walk away from this experience more confident and better players.
I understand Wayne's thought process here, he may not of written it the same way most of would of, but thats Wayne.
So lets look at this from both the good and the bad points of views.
the Bad :
The All Events placings
113th
146th
148th
151st
174th
178th
The Team Placing
27th
But can we expect these guys to win? A question for the boys - how many times did you work together as a team before traveling away?
We send a team to the biggest team stage in the world, ask them to perform but dont help them prepare for it?
I have spent too many trips wondering why we didnt spend at least a few weekends together to work with each other.
Train as a team, grow as a team - perform as a team.
Experience levels -
Ive bowled with some of these guys a fair bit - 1 member of that team had a clear understanding of how things work. He also was the guy who performed the best.
How many rookies did well at this world championships?
Cost -
Its added pressure for these guys. I know the feeling. You spend so much and then you feel you have to justify it by winning.
Like the players didnt have enough on their minds before leaving. It also does hurt knowing that the coach hasnt paid a cent (in fact has been PAID) and the players are asked to spend so much.
No team, no coach - Doesnt work the other way though does it?
Coach -
Id love to know how time these bowlers have worked with Chris, or even talked with the guy before flying away.
Ive known Chris for many many years. He knows what he is talking about but all that information in his head is just impossible to be shared with 6 guys (constructively) in just a short period of time and during a time when focusing on what you CAN do is so important.
We need a planned training system - where the coach gets his players to do what he thinks is needed to win. Then the coach can be credited for wonderful performances but must also answer for poor results.
Id love to hear Chris's thought on the trip.
Support -
I guilty of this.
On this forum, how many people sent personal messages to these boys? I know I didnt, and i feel horrible about it.
There should be a email system or text system where the supporters can get direct supporting messages to the players.
I know over the years, if i read a few hundred awesome and supportive emails/messages while overseas, i may of performed a little better knowing that EVERYONE back home was behind me.
I didnt do it this time, but i swear ill never NOT do it again.
Ok - now the good
Learning -
5 guys who made the team gained something that you can buy. Knowledge.
Understanding how bowling works on a world stage can really only be discovered through competition. These guys now know what it takes to compete at that level -
I wonder now, knowing what they were up against, would they of changed any of their preparation prior to leaving? Think we all know the answer!
Guts -
Australians dont give up - no matter what.
I watched the streaming on occasion. What i saw brought a smile top my face.
Christian was working on a double - SPLIT - I saw in his face is was so cranky with him self.
This was when he was no chance of winning - no chance at all - he still wanted to perform.
Its in all Australians and its wonderful to see these guys bowled with our colours on their backs proudly and with passion.
No one over there considers that passion as embarrassing. No matter what position your in.
The system -
TBA changed the system, hoping it would help, they swung and missed, but that doesnt mean we all give up on it.
I know Cara is extremely open to ideas - email her, she will listen.
The biggest thing we need to change is preparation - Nothing trumps preparation.
if your ready for anything and everything - medals will come. Ask Team USA or Korea what they thought of their 12 or so meetings prior to the event.
TBA is willing to keep changing, trying to find the right 'system' - they just need help devising it.
Put your thinking caps people, email TBA with ways to make selection better and ways to raise funds for the national team.
Thoughts on all of this?
Jb
We all know this - including Wayne.
We all respect the bowlers over there and we all truly wish that they walk away from this experience more confident and better players.
I understand Wayne's thought process here, he may not of written it the same way most of would of, but thats Wayne.
So lets look at this from both the good and the bad points of views.
the Bad :
The All Events placings
113th
146th
148th
151st
174th
178th
The Team Placing
27th
But can we expect these guys to win? A question for the boys - how many times did you work together as a team before traveling away?
We send a team to the biggest team stage in the world, ask them to perform but dont help them prepare for it?
I have spent too many trips wondering why we didnt spend at least a few weekends together to work with each other.
Train as a team, grow as a team - perform as a team.
Experience levels -
Ive bowled with some of these guys a fair bit - 1 member of that team had a clear understanding of how things work. He also was the guy who performed the best.
How many rookies did well at this world championships?
Cost -
Its added pressure for these guys. I know the feeling. You spend so much and then you feel you have to justify it by winning.
Like the players didnt have enough on their minds before leaving. It also does hurt knowing that the coach hasnt paid a cent (in fact has been PAID) and the players are asked to spend so much.
No team, no coach - Doesnt work the other way though does it?
Coach -
Id love to know how time these bowlers have worked with Chris, or even talked with the guy before flying away.
Ive known Chris for many many years. He knows what he is talking about but all that information in his head is just impossible to be shared with 6 guys (constructively) in just a short period of time and during a time when focusing on what you CAN do is so important.
We need a planned training system - where the coach gets his players to do what he thinks is needed to win. Then the coach can be credited for wonderful performances but must also answer for poor results.
Id love to hear Chris's thought on the trip.
Support -
I guilty of this.
On this forum, how many people sent personal messages to these boys? I know I didnt, and i feel horrible about it.
There should be a email system or text system where the supporters can get direct supporting messages to the players.
I know over the years, if i read a few hundred awesome and supportive emails/messages while overseas, i may of performed a little better knowing that EVERYONE back home was behind me.
I didnt do it this time, but i swear ill never NOT do it again.
Ok - now the good
Learning -
5 guys who made the team gained something that you can buy. Knowledge.
Understanding how bowling works on a world stage can really only be discovered through competition. These guys now know what it takes to compete at that level -
I wonder now, knowing what they were up against, would they of changed any of their preparation prior to leaving? Think we all know the answer!
Guts -
Australians dont give up - no matter what.
I watched the streaming on occasion. What i saw brought a smile top my face.
Christian was working on a double - SPLIT - I saw in his face is was so cranky with him self.
This was when he was no chance of winning - no chance at all - he still wanted to perform.
Its in all Australians and its wonderful to see these guys bowled with our colours on their backs proudly and with passion.
No one over there considers that passion as embarrassing. No matter what position your in.
The system -
TBA changed the system, hoping it would help, they swung and missed, but that doesnt mean we all give up on it.
I know Cara is extremely open to ideas - email her, she will listen.
The biggest thing we need to change is preparation - Nothing trumps preparation.
if your ready for anything and everything - medals will come. Ask Team USA or Korea what they thought of their 12 or so meetings prior to the event.
TBA is willing to keep changing, trying to find the right 'system' - they just need help devising it.
Put your thinking caps people, email TBA with ways to make selection better and ways to raise funds for the national team.
Thoughts on all of this?
Jb
Good post again Jason.
This thread got off to a bad start by using the word embarrassing.
If Australia is to progress in any world championships it needs to let the National coach put his ideas into place. Chris wants to have squads like most other countries do. Then these squads can train together and develop into a team.
Ability wise we are not far away.
The one point that I do disagree with is the coach not paying his way. I don't believe that we should make the coach pay to go away with the team. In the past two months three teams have gone overseas and no one could afford to pay for these three trips.
The only way to raise funds is to increase membership fees for TBA. I remember last year when people were complaining about paying $27.50 and what they get for it. What you get is the sport developing and putting Australia on the map.
The ladies Worlds are scheduled for next September. Now is the time to start preparing. Name a squad of 12 or so and have then train together and form a team. Then we will be in a better position to take on the world.
In 8 years time there is rumours that Ten Pin Bowling will be in the Commonwealth games. Lets get the infrastructure in place now.
Well done to the guys in Germany and I for one am proud of your efforts.
This thread got off to a bad start by using the word embarrassing.
If Australia is to progress in any world championships it needs to let the National coach put his ideas into place. Chris wants to have squads like most other countries do. Then these squads can train together and develop into a team.
Ability wise we are not far away.
The one point that I do disagree with is the coach not paying his way. I don't believe that we should make the coach pay to go away with the team. In the past two months three teams have gone overseas and no one could afford to pay for these three trips.
The only way to raise funds is to increase membership fees for TBA. I remember last year when people were complaining about paying $27.50 and what they get for it. What you get is the sport developing and putting Australia on the map.
The ladies Worlds are scheduled for next September. Now is the time to start preparing. Name a squad of 12 or so and have then train together and form a team. Then we will be in a better position to take on the world.
In 8 years time there is rumours that Ten Pin Bowling will be in the Commonwealth games. Lets get the infrastructure in place now.
Well done to the guys in Germany and I for one am proud of your efforts.
Easy Tiger
Active Member
Excellent point but the problem which has been raised before is 90%+ of league bowlers know nothing about the Australian team or worlds and couldn't give two hoots about it. They turn up once a week, throw their plastic for 3 games, have a beer and go home. These people don't see a reason to support or pay a cent to TBA, so that's where the problem lies. Fix that and you'll fix 90% of the problem.
I'm extremely proud of the team, they are doing the best they can. This is a problem which is out of their hands. What is really needed is for the government to fund for someone like PricewaterhouseCoopers or another big firm's business advisory practice to come in and fix TBA from the inside. The cost would be big but it might save the sport.
OK.
I agree with everything belmo has said. The guy would know what hes talking about, having been there and done that many a time. The thing i most agree with, is a squad.
Now, i was a part of the squad for the Asian Youth Championships held in January this year. We had a squad rolloff back in April last year (9 months out from the event). This was a good start. Chris had the chance to see how our games were "structured" and then give us all ideas to work on when we returned to our own states. We then had 2 training sessions as a SQUAD in conjunction with Nationally Ranked Events. Again, Chris then had the opportunity to not only see how we had come along and in turn "performed" in the event, but then also talk with us all one on one and as a group about improvements we could make and also give us an insight to different ball layouts that may aid us should we make the team.
Now, thats all well and good, but, the final part of the "selection criteria" was in my opinion, the big flaw to this set up. A ONE DAY ROLLOFF. This was held in November (2 months out from the event). Basically, 7 months of work with each member of the squad, comes down to how you perform on ONE DAY. Now, i just want to clarify that this isnt me venting for not making the team, its come, gone, and ive moved on. BUT, surely, after 7 months of working with a squad, could the coach not "pick" a team? Based on what hes seen us all go through?
Ive worked with Chris before i was in this squad and have done a few courses with him, and like Belmo said, the guy knows what hes talking about. So surely a one day rolloff shouldnt be the determining factor for "selecting" a team. Yes, we had other criteria that did incorporate what we had achieved throughout the year, but the most "points" we could gain, came from the rolloff. I was involved in a "tie" for the 4th position in the team, and obviously from the team, i wasnt picked. Now, what got me, is the fact there was not a tie breaking rolloff as there usually is for last place in a "cut". Both guys involved questioned why there was no rolloff, and the guy who made the team even offered me a rolloff. But the decision was whoever had the highest average on the day, made the team. Noone involved in that squad was aware of that rule. Basically sayng that the past 7 months meant nothing in the event of a tie.
Now thats over, I believe that the initial part of our squad (squad rolloff to select a squad is a good start, roughly 12 months out from the event, have say 10 in your squad, first 6 past post plus 4 selections), then set out your training calendar (whether it be in conjunction with ranked events, or have the coach set a time and place where all members must attend), have the coach monitor each players progress at each meeting point, then at the final meeting (3-4 months from tournament), have the coach SELECT the team, no one or 2 day rolloffs, but have the coach SELECT who he feels will have the best chance at competing in the championships.
TBA have a start, but like belmo said, they need ideas from US, the members, to get it right.
The other thing i will touch on from what Jase said, EXPERIENCE. Now, ive never represented my country, but have represented myself on the international stage. Bowling in the USA last year not only in the High Roller Amateur Events, but also on the PBA Tour (USBC Masters). This is something money cannot buy. Bowling against the best of the best really opened my eyes to what i had to work on and ho i had to adjust my game in order to compete. It was invaluable experience and something i will do again.
These guys over in Germany at the moment have just experienced the same thing, bowling against the best that the WORLD has to offer, and im sure that every single one of them come back here with more knowledge and confidence than what they went over with.
Well done guys, you did your best against what the world threw at you. Im sure youll all be in contention for the next World Mens team in a coupe of years.
Rant over
Matt Watson
I agree with everything belmo has said. The guy would know what hes talking about, having been there and done that many a time. The thing i most agree with, is a squad.
Now, i was a part of the squad for the Asian Youth Championships held in January this year. We had a squad rolloff back in April last year (9 months out from the event). This was a good start. Chris had the chance to see how our games were "structured" and then give us all ideas to work on when we returned to our own states. We then had 2 training sessions as a SQUAD in conjunction with Nationally Ranked Events. Again, Chris then had the opportunity to not only see how we had come along and in turn "performed" in the event, but then also talk with us all one on one and as a group about improvements we could make and also give us an insight to different ball layouts that may aid us should we make the team.
Now, thats all well and good, but, the final part of the "selection criteria" was in my opinion, the big flaw to this set up. A ONE DAY ROLLOFF. This was held in November (2 months out from the event). Basically, 7 months of work with each member of the squad, comes down to how you perform on ONE DAY. Now, i just want to clarify that this isnt me venting for not making the team, its come, gone, and ive moved on. BUT, surely, after 7 months of working with a squad, could the coach not "pick" a team? Based on what hes seen us all go through?
Ive worked with Chris before i was in this squad and have done a few courses with him, and like Belmo said, the guy knows what hes talking about. So surely a one day rolloff shouldnt be the determining factor for "selecting" a team. Yes, we had other criteria that did incorporate what we had achieved throughout the year, but the most "points" we could gain, came from the rolloff. I was involved in a "tie" for the 4th position in the team, and obviously from the team, i wasnt picked. Now, what got me, is the fact there was not a tie breaking rolloff as there usually is for last place in a "cut". Both guys involved questioned why there was no rolloff, and the guy who made the team even offered me a rolloff. But the decision was whoever had the highest average on the day, made the team. Noone involved in that squad was aware of that rule. Basically sayng that the past 7 months meant nothing in the event of a tie.
Now thats over, I believe that the initial part of our squad (squad rolloff to select a squad is a good start, roughly 12 months out from the event, have say 10 in your squad, first 6 past post plus 4 selections), then set out your training calendar (whether it be in conjunction with ranked events, or have the coach set a time and place where all members must attend), have the coach monitor each players progress at each meeting point, then at the final meeting (3-4 months from tournament), have the coach SELECT the team, no one or 2 day rolloffs, but have the coach SELECT who he feels will have the best chance at competing in the championships.
TBA have a start, but like belmo said, they need ideas from US, the members, to get it right.
The other thing i will touch on from what Jase said, EXPERIENCE. Now, ive never represented my country, but have represented myself on the international stage. Bowling in the USA last year not only in the High Roller Amateur Events, but also on the PBA Tour (USBC Masters). This is something money cannot buy. Bowling against the best of the best really opened my eyes to what i had to work on and ho i had to adjust my game in order to compete. It was invaluable experience and something i will do again.
These guys over in Germany at the moment have just experienced the same thing, bowling against the best that the WORLD has to offer, and im sure that every single one of them come back here with more knowledge and confidence than what they went over with.
Well done guys, you did your best against what the world threw at you. Im sure youll all be in contention for the next World Mens team in a coupe of years.
Rant over
Matt Watson
I realise that, but when you go to represent, you dont have ONE DAY to perform, you have 4 blocks of games in which to perform and if you have a "bad day" you then have the opportunity to redeem that across the other 3.
Its much like rachuig, shield and youth here. You rolloff on one day (or sometimes 2) to go away and bowl for at least 3.
As was pointed out, TBA needs suggestions for how to pick a team.......................theres my suggestion, each to their own i guess.
Matt
This would be perfectly acceptable if we could hold the Roll Off, in this example, in Munich, Germany, ideally 12 months prior to the event so we had the closest representation of temperature and humidity, as well as the exact conditions (lanes, oil patterns, oil type, topography, etc, etc) on which the event itself would be competed on. Then yes, a one day roll off over the same amount of games, with the same amount of people on the lanes as you would in the event it self, would be ideal. However, that's simply outrageous. So, no, a one day roll isn't the best way to pick a team. Sure, incorporate a roll off, but the squads with sessions involving a selection at the end is by far the best way. Could you imagine a cricket roll off?? A young gun bowls a killer delivery to Ponting, out first ball. Sorry mate, you're not going, 7 other batsmen out scored you... Better luck next time... Ohh you've scored over 10,000 runs in test cricket at the highest level...? Nah, you got a duck in the roll off!!! Better luck next year... Stupid huh?
Belmo, I believe we did have some training sessions before World Youth '06 up at Coffs... I think we all came home with a Gold Medal that year...
Cow
