AUSTRALIAN INTERNATIONAL EVENT

[SCOOPS]

Just curious to get everyones opinion on an International Event to be held in Australia

What would it take?


Big Prize money - as in AU$30,000.00min 1St Place down to say AU$1000.00 for 30th (Total prize pool AU$75k-$100)

With bigger prizes entry fee would have to be incresed so what would you be willing to pay out

If the first cut was to say 36 and 36th place was AU$700 would $400 be too high, and if not would we get the entries. Would AU$700.00 be attractive enough to lure the International Bowler to our shores

PERFECT GAME award - something substantial here could be the ticket and not such big place monies. Was only last year saw an event in Malaysia (i think) that saw bowlers going from all over Europe and Asia just for the 300award and not so the prize money

What about multiple qualifying attempts, similar to most events held in say Asia East & West.

Perhaps a pay as you go type event, which would be minimal amounts but enough to cover most of the lineage in the next stage. Or do you consider once you have made the initial cut you shouldnt have to pay anymore

I know it was tried many moons ago, but it has been awhile and curious to hear everyones thoughts on the concept.

Obviously connecting it with the Asian circuit or likewise would be the go so atheletes could plan it on their schedule. This can only help people forget the number 1 reason of not coming here being the travel cost - So lets get an airline on board

eg Bowl in Singapore say, then pop down to Aust, then back up to Malaysia then over to wherever

We have been a force in bowling as a Nation for some time now, we have 3 very successful young ladies on the Professional Circuit. World Cup winners, International Title Holders, FIQ Medalists, Commonwealth Games medalists.

So why can we not host a truly INTERNATIONAL EVENT?

And whats it going to take to get one up and running?

 

[wchester]

Scoops..The old saying certainly applies here.
"money talks and bullshit walks"

I'm tired of hearing how our prize funds are too top heavy. That's just an excuse that is given as a bowler's non participation in our major events in Australia. If a bowler's goal is to cash and possibly break even, then that bowler isn't likely to participate in more than one or two tournaments in a year. Everone is looking for the "BIG WIN." Why else is Tattslotto so popular? It certainly isn't because of the good odds.

If you want the best from around the world to flock to our shores and shoe up in our tournament(s), you've got to offer them a genuine chance at hitting it big!

Personally I like the multiple entry formats ( re:short format and less games) The chance to win a new car is ALWAYS a big drawing card, ask Brenton Davy or Andrew Frawley about 300 game bonuses.

The world is our stage..now let's get on with the big show!

 

[BELMO]

Hey guys,

If there is anything i can do to help to get this tournament off the black board and into reality i will.

The idea of having a BIG MONEY event here is great.... It will add to the excitment to the game......... i remember watching Mike Neuman playing for $30,000 US at the high roller in Janurary and the event was only 1 game at a time.... (meaning all u had to do was bowl a game higher than 1/2 of the feild and u progressed on, till the top 5..... then it was GAME ON for a step ladder)......., it truly was the most exciting thing i have seen.... 5 guys in the eliminator all wanting the $$$. with Neuman winning the shnoots $$$

Could you imagine having each and every competitor watching the final, unlike the super 6's we have now.... where the final people watching are mostly the bowlers own friends or family. The reason is cause the days are so long to determine a winner, i mean 15 games matchplay, and how many of the 100 entrents stay back???

The idea of short formats and big bucks is always appleaing, not everyone can shoot 230 ave for 30 games (like what u have to do now to win) but heck anyone can shoot 230 ave for 2, 4 or even 6 games.

Prizes attract bowlers not only from interstate but from around the world, and what better place to have an international event other than right here at home.

Also having 300 awards help entries, like wayne said some places around the world offer awful pay outs in the actually tournament but the pay out for 300 is huge. Although the pay outs are top heavy in asia, if ur on for 1 game u could comeout better than anyone else in teh tournament....happened to me in MALYASIA 2000 again many people back them selves for one game so why not make it appeal to them!!!!

I dont know much about sponsorships and i guess its really who u know not what u know when its comes to getting any money from any business to help rise the prize funds, but in theory an AIR LINE would be perfect!!!!!!!! as im sure many bowlers travel via air to get to tournaments!

Cheers

belmo

 

[AdrianS]

We've had 3 chances to have something really big out here as far as international events goes

The Aus v USA womens series in 87- it was actually a big success, unfortunately not enough sponsor dollars around for a 2nd try(i think, correct me if i'm wrong)

Australia Cup World Series- An event that only Ed Fleming could have ever had the guts to attempt, 60 entries in yr one, not enough support to get off the ground a 2nd time, a real shame this one went under.

PBA seniors tour in 92-From what i've heard the guys didn't appreciate coming half way across the world to bowl on dry conditions most of them couldn't break 190 on(this is what i heard, again correct if wrong)

And of couse Manhattan had its share of internationals and big $ walking out the door over the years too so that makes it onto this list too. Not sure why it came to a halt, can anyone enlighten me?

So this country has had its moments as far as international events have gone(of course FIQ championships and the World cup have come through town, hopefully not for the last time) now we just need one that can go for longer than everything that has come before it.

 

[Brenton Davy]

Al,

If the money is there ..... then so am I.

I am not a great fan of "short" formats, unlike Belmo and a few other guys around the place, however if that is the way it is to go, then so be it. What I will say is that on the PBA Tour, their major events are ALL long format. I believe it adds status to the event.

Multiple qualifying attempts ......... I have a real problem with this idea cos it favours those who can afford to have multiple attempts, mainly those who dont have to travel, seek accomodation etc. Lets see who can find the way in quickest, not the ones who need multiple attempts.

A substantial 300 award ..... that is tough as a result of the Manhatan windfall in '99, cos the insurance costs are exhorbitant, but if you can achieve it, then fire away.

Certainly you have the facility to host such an event and I hope that it does come to fruition sooner rather than later

The big buck events we have had here have, I believe failed for one of 2 reasons:

1. High Entry Fees: Most players arent prepared to put their balls on the line for risk of not making it back, partly cos the internationals have a habit of taking the lions share, eg Tim Mack at Manhattan and Peter Knopp at Australia Cup world Series.

2. Those prizefunds were top heavy.

Realistically tho, I can see this type of event attracting enuff international support not to need a huge Australian entry. It would be nice to see the Aussies put their balls on the line and I hope they do. I for one intend to put my money where my mouth is if this event comes to reality.

Now, if only I can find a ball that carries at Tuggeranong...................

 

[Jez]

Scoops,

Good to see someone at least thinking about this kind of thing.

Belmo and myself and talked about it a fair bit what it would take for this to happen and i agree with what belmo said.

The eliminator format sound great coz keeps everyone there..Multiple entries are good because u only need to string 3-4 games together and this gets the people to have a go coz they have a chance against the bigger names.

As everyone has said where ever there is money people will go.

Good luck with it mate and put my name down as soon as it happens...and i hope that everyone would try and support such an event.

 

[steve_jones]

Brenton - thank you - for the life of me I couldn't remember the winner of Ed's Australian Cup World Series tournament - way back then, whenever? I was TD as you recall [I realise you have tried to expunge these meetings of ours from your mind - so sorry to burn the light again - are you having a migraine about now?] - and it was certainly a great event. Peter Knopp - sure could play.

Adrian S commented that only Ed Fleming would have had the guts [let me add foresight, capability and unmitigated street-smarts Adrain, and I know you would have - space permitting] to get an event like that up and running. Fleming was a great, great man.

In the event none of this waffle gets closer to an answer to Alan's question. I must say however that the talent of the people contributing to this topic is of a high level [George, Andrew, Patrick
-where are you?] - so that's encouraging.

I have learned just a few things along the way in forty years in bowling - one of the things high on my short list of "pearls of wisdom worth remembering after two good reds" is:

"almost never is there such a thing as a new idea - usually it's an old idea that's time has come".

Brenton you said it correctly - high entry fees typically sustain big money events in this country [and most others where they don't either have major sponsors with a great sense of humour or lashings of free-to-air TV time] and that's no long term solution to success. You will get "them" once - rarely ever again.

All I'm suggesting is this - to whomever is the new age Ed Fleming amongst you - resist the temptation to reinvent the wheel. Take less time burning up cells trying to devise a mind numbingly complicated format [as a one time wonder] - rather spend almost all your energy [waking minute in fact] on solving the eternal mystery that appears to be the safe keep of but a few sports in this country.......

"sponsors beget media .... media beget sponsors"!

Frankly, almost everything else is smoke and mirrors.

Break that ground and not only are you home free - you can pick up a few dollars along the way.

Have fun - it should be quite a ride.

Steve Jones

 

[GeorgeF]

I would like nothing more than to bowl an International stop in my own country. I choose to travel overseas chasing the BIG money as I cannot sustain a living doing it here. How these tournaments overseas generate such big prizemoney I'll never know, Bahrain $20000 US, Qatar $30000 US, High Roller $50000 US x 3.

I see different formats all over the place but at the end of the day its about the money. Its a dead end circle, SPONORS want TV, and TV needs SPONSORS. I would do anything to assist in the planning in such of an event here.

We talked about it in league the other night asking if we ran a similar tournament as to the one in the 80's where entry was $1000, how many would show? On the scale of things, $1000 AUS is not much for an entry, its all relative to the prizefund.

I feel Australia doesn't have the depth of bowlers it use to, to fill a decent field. There fore it would be up to Internationals to travel it has to be worth there while, $25000 AUS for 1st at least. Formats are irrelevant, remember its all about the money. I totally agree with Steve Jones comments, for the people attempting such a feat, there is no need to re-invent the wheel.

To answer Alans original question, this is what I think you would need to run a successful International stop

* $25000 AUS for 1st
* World and or Asian Zone ranking points
* TV finals
* A decent 300 bonus
* Generous sponsors

Like I said earlier, if anyone is planning such an event I would be glad to help where I can.

 

[wchester]

Anyone else care to put in their two cents/pence worth?

 

[Brenton Davy]

I think Steve Jones put it most succinctly, we shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel, but we should be trying to overcome the medias aversion to our sport. This type of event is the type of vehicle to do just that.

Steve, no migraines for me over our past "meetings" (LOL), indeed I look back upon them with some .................. humour. I thought you were an a**hole and you KNEW I was one, LOL. Its good to know we can look back on those days and laugh.

One thing I do remember about that event at Ed Fleming Lanes was that for the first time in probably 15-20 years, Terry Wenban was seriously nervous and excited about a bowling tournament. Remembering how laid back he used to be about tournaments, I found that to be somewhat of a revelation and we need to get that type of excitement back into bowling in Australia.

Moreover, if it doesnt get done in the next 12 months, then I fear for tournament bowling in Australia because of the negative vibe I feel from some of the better known and credentialled players.

 

[kagg69]

Thinking realistically do you believe people will pay out big money and travel to Australia with the posability of being knocked after the first game? Probably not. Although, the elimination idea has been working for the Junior State and Nationals masters for quite a few years, just modified a bit.

I truely believe that we need something big here and possibly when you have the big names from overseas the media coverage and sponsorship will follow.

We would gladly pay for Sally to bowl in a big event no matter what the cost, after all SUPPORT is the name of the game. I also believe it being such a big event everyone will watch after being eliminated just to see who wins.

 

[Stax]

Al, PM sent, will reply to post when i get my questions answered.
Thanks
Stax

 

[ilive2bowl]

Australian International Tournament

After reading the many posts on this subject, I thought I might add 'my 2cents worth' to the debate. Staging any event is all about 'return'...i.e. return to the organiser; return to the TV Network (through 'guranteed advertising within the event) and most importantly 'return' to the participants. I don't think that attracting 'big (individual) names' from overseas will make any difference to either the media coverage of the event or indeed to the continuing credibility of the Sport. Ask any Sport's Journalist whether they've heard of Walter Ray...and you'll get my point. In fact, I would hate to see a 'drop-in' international fly out with the money....what value can THAT have to our local Industry??? As we all know....funding an event of this type requires HUGE sponsorship...this can only be procured by 'guranteeing' TV coverage (and not for airing at 3.00am on a Sunday morning)..so it's really a chicken and egg situation. I believe that gaining credibility for the sport we all love so dearly is hard graft...bowler's want good prize money for their entry fee; the Sponsor wants 'value for his sponsorship dollar' and the Proprietor needs to show a profit on his investment. If we were able to achieve all 3 in every major Tournament AND provided the participants with a well run event that guaranteed 'fair and playable' conditions that would be a great start to re-igniting the interest in Tournament Bowling and resultant therefrom the Sport of Bowling would gain acceptability and credence. Events such as THE BRUNSWICK CUP; The AO; The Perth Cup and the SPC go a long way towards achieving those objectives.
From a personal perspective, I would love to see more Team International Challenge Series e.g USA VS AUSTRALIA or a trianagular Tourney between say Thailand / Malaysia and Australia.
COUNTRY PRIDE to my way of thinking is the pinnacle of any sport and the aspirations of the champions who participate.....but, of course, the staging of these events requires MONEY and this is where the concentration of bodies like the TBA should be devoting their time and attention! Far more media coverage could be procured by the staging of these Challenges than by a top monied Singles Tournament...BELIEVE ME!!!and these events need to be staged in PREMIER facilities that showcase the Sport in the best light and HERE IN OZ!!!!(not overseas)......

 

[patrick]

sounds like a good idea "ilivetobowl" .. since our media and public dont really want much to do with us, or whatever, say it how u want thats the bare facts, why not bring the american or malaysian or european media to us?

get them attracted, get their public attracted, get their sponsors attracted! if the australian media see's a large international interest they would be stupid to not pick up on it.

an EXTREMLY hard thing to do i know, just throwing in my 2 cents worth too

 

[bworld]

Hi Steve Jones,

No, I am not the Patrick that has been replying to this post, I am another Patrick that has heard this argument so many times like yourself.

I too have sat there as frustrated as you in knowing that poor Ed Fleming squandered away $50,000.00 AUD to stage what he called a mega event similar to the PBA, the first truly $100,000.00 event.

There is no more Australia Cup, no more Manhattan Super Classic because they promised so much to the winners and no-one supported them, what makes anyone think today things have changed.

We don't have enough bowlers at that level willing to put up enough money to compete for such dollars, the High Roller is only one event at that time, however there are many mini tournaments that you can compete in to earn some money to bowl in the bigger events. Hell it would be great if someone put up $700 - 800AUD to bowl one game, but its the others that can pay for the travel and accomodation, entry fees etc.

Besides thats why these tournaments are popular, everbody from around the world flocks to bowl there, the sponsors and advertisers know there gonna come, the potential viewing audience is high, besides the USA is a lot closer than Australia for many bowlers.

Put up some money and they will come is a great thought, try to get the money from some one is something many of you have not tried, this is not easy.

Steve and Roy understand what it takes to have a major sponsor, Brunswick support bowling a great deal in this country, because people like Roy build bowling centers, Ebonite supports the Super 6 because AMF are a major distributor of there products and sell them throughout the country.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, remember that.

I hope to see you all at the 31st Melbourne Tenpin Cup, where another sponsor the Australian Diamond Company is again putting up diamonds for the stepladder, Brunswick are helping as always, as well as a whole bunch of minor sponsors.

Regards,
Patrick Birtig
Tournament Director
2003 Melbourne Tenpin Cup