Association Challenge 2003

[steve b]

T&DDTB Assoc. Inc No Reply?

T & DDTB Assoc. Inc. has had its licence revoked and doesn't care for its members if it cann't answer the question previously asked by one of its members. And there are plenty of others at Garden City who are members and are not getting the benifits of their money they spent over the years with this association.
Please show some back bone and asnwer all these questions since you are the elected board members by the members and think of them for a change.

 

[BUDDHA]

Steve

1st things 1st. As I recall you were a member of our board. When the issues surrounding the 2 centres were brought up, there was much discussion, of which you had input. I am told that you did not fully understand what the board were voting on. Clearly you should of asked more questions, that is/was your basic right.

I would also remind you that when the vote was taken, no one present actually voted against the majority (which was unanimous).
This then means that agreed to what we were saying.

You then mis-informed others as to the outcome of the meeting. Our letter to the centre clearly stated that we were quite happy to represent and service those bowlers,however, we would be independant of the centres and their owners. This is similar to what some other associations do.

As for the Association Challenge. Yes decisions have been made and, we will be notifying all participating associations of these decisions prior to making any announcements here.A letter will be sent early next week to those associations.
Having said that, please also be advised that bowlers from both our local centres will be invited to the selection process, therefore this will be a TOOWOOMBA team, and the T&DTTBA Inc will assist those bowlers accordingly.

As for our license. Yes it has been revoked. It seems that TBAL acted wholly and solely on the request of one person. At no time did they consult us to find out exactly what the story was. That is pretty fair.....is'nt it?

Finally, you mentioned backbone. Well my friend, you have displayed none of that, you resigned.......remember. You could of stayed and argued your points, but you elected not to, that is your right. I still think that more input from yourself may have changed some things, but sadly you never gave it a chance. Where is the backbone in that?

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Regards

John Wiffen

 

[Gismo]

Steve B,

You were a centre director on the association when the decisions at the last meeting were made. As Buddha has stated elsewhere you voted to support the decisions made there. You were given ample opportunity to state what you thought and did so. You were the first at the meeting to get to state your opinion as well and yet you still voted with the rest of the board because you agreed with the motions. For you to turn around now and say what you are saying is a bit of a joke.

Scott

 

[steve b]

Reply

Yes i was a board member at that meeting and yes i did ask questions there, but they were not answered clearly that is why i made the decission to resign because my doubts where not met and i didn't realise it until later.
But there are other reasons also like;
1. After talking to other members i find out that the whole board was not acepted or imformed of the meeting. One being there for the meeting with the centre management but not told where the board meeting was to be held. And at time was i ever told who the whole board consisted of.
2. One of the voters at that meeting was not a board member but they voted as well.
3. The vote we made was not that of the bowling members, and at no time was there any meetings with them to know what their decissions where or votes taken from them. Thus making our decission null and viod.
I suggest you go back to basics and consult your members and the whole board as a whole.
Now show some back bone!

 

[moff]

Steve
You have talked about back bone?????
Do you think that this forum is the place for this banter?
As you know from the limited time that you spent on the T&DDTBA board, the meetings are open to any member that wishes to attend.
The board is elected by the bowlers to represent them and make decisions on their behalf.
Should any member wish to question any decision made by the board of directors, they are quite at liberty to do so. However, protocol suggests that the right place is at a duly constituted meeting of the board of directors. Not on a forum such as this.
I suggest that should you (or any other member) wish to ask further questions of the board that you come along to the next meeting, where your resignation letter will be tabled and discussed, and ask the questions that are troubling you.
I look forward to an end to this encounter.

Barry Fagg
Secretary T&DDTBA

 

[steve b]

Reply

Barry

That's fine but like always me and many other bowlers never now when your meeting are to be held. Like the meeting with management i only found out about it when someone told me 3 days prior. People have lives and to put together a meeting must have to be arranged more than 3 days earlier.
You give me 2 weeks, or more, notice of your next meeting and i will bring bowlers and myself to the meeting, but it must be in a public place not your homes.
Thank you Barry.
Steve B.

 

[Barry F]

Time to put up and shut up

Steve?????
The question marks are there for a reason.
For someone that was elected only three months ago you seem to have a great knowledge of how things have operated for so long. I don't know how the association survived for that time without you.
I'm sure it will continue without you too....

Now, its time to come clean with your agenda here.
If you're not going to keep it out of this forum, and it appears not, then its time to make the accusations that you appear to be alluding to.

Make the comments you? need to make.
Ask the questions you? need to ask.

All I ask is that they are your words, and that you aren't a puppet for others.

Also keep in mind that the people you are asking the questions of are there as volunteers, and do not get paid for the hard work they have put in over many years as elected representatives of the bowlers.

I also look forward to our next meeting, to answer all of your questions in person.
As you may have gathered there will be no further replies to this forum on this topic...................

Regards
Barry

 

[Andrew S.]

Gold Coast Assoc. today recd a communication from Toowoomba & DD Assoc. saying that discussions had been held with both Toowoomba Centres. It has now been agreed that in the interests of the Challenge this years event would be held at Sunset, and conducted by Toowoomba & DD Assoc.
It would be appreciated if we could get confirmation of this decision from both sides.

 

[Mr Mac]

QUESTIONS?
Are ALL the ordinary members of the T&DTBA - who I presume still bowl at Garden City Lanes - happy with this decision?
Has a meeting of ALL the members of the T&DTBA been held, to see if this is what ALL the ordinary members want?
As T&DTBA been removed from TBAL and I understand that the Challenge is sanctioned with TBAL - why is T&DTBA running a sanctionaed TBAL Competition when they no longer have a licence from TBAL to operate?
Can an unlicensed Association Sanction a Tournament or would it be refused by TBAL to be sanctioned?
Thus would the 2003 Association Challenge become an unsanctioned Tournament?
Do the other Associations still want to bowl in an unsanctioned tournament?
If there is a problem with the Assoc Challenge Tournament and TBAL is asked to rule on such a problem, how can they have any influence over T&DTBA (as the organising body) as having no licence they are no longer part of TBAL?
I would have thought that the other 9 Associations that are involved in the Tournament would have wanted a TBAL Association to organise and run a TBAL Sanctioned Tournament? Have they ALL been asked what they want?
Logic tells me - in answer to my own questions - it should be at Garden City and run by the G C Centre Association. Because that's where everyone expected to go - so for the other 9 - what has changed?
Many questions? Looking for some answers?
Mr Mac

 

[Barry F]

Andrew
The advice has gone out to all associations competing.
Yes, the venue has been changed.
The rules of the tournament allow for the host association to choose the venue for the tournament.
Yes, the T&DDTBA won the tender on the basis of conducting the tournament at Garden City Lanes.
However, the new owners and management of that centre have made it quite clear of their intentions toward the T&DDTBA.

Management of Sunset Superbowl have confirmed to me that they have discussed the tournament with management of Garden City Lanes. They confirmed they would not welcome the tournament with the T&DDTBA hosting, and that they would provide written confirmation of same.

On this basis, Sunset Superbowl have been very accommodating to allow us an alternate venue at the same tender price.

Barry Fagg
Secretary
T&DDTBA

 

[Barry F]

John
As for TBAL.......
Yes they have removed the T&DDTBA license, as they have for Ipswich.
Should Ipswich also be removed from the event in your eyes???

The T&DDTBA will be seeking accreditation of the event via TBAL.
Are TBAL likely to deny the accreditation? I think not.
I have discuused this with John Coxon, and was advised that this would not be an issue.

What repercussions would there be if this were to occur????

The event has been very successful over the ten years it has been conducted.
The T&DDTBA simply wishes to host another successful tournament.
So please, let the organising committee complete their task without further disruption.

We look forward to seeing all 9 other associations in Toowoomba on June 7th for the 2003 Association Challenge.

Barry Fagg
Secretary
T&DDTBA

 

[zane que]

Barry,

In your letter you said discussions had been held with both centres on the issue of the Association Challenge. WRONG. I, as manager of Garden City Lanes, have not seen you or spoken to you or any other member of your committee since you and your committee packed up and left our centre of your own free will. The members of the T&DDTBA were never consulted as a whole group on where the Association should operate and I can now tell you that many of them are starting to ask questions as to why they can now recieve no benefit from the assets that T&DDTBA hold which the members see as rightfully theirs.

Zane Que

Manager

 

[Andrew S.]

I think this is a matter of accepting that an Association can function without being connected to a Centre. The Gold Coast Centres have all gone, or are in, the process of going Centre based. The 'Old' Gold Coast Area TBA will however carry on as an umbrella organisation for all its local centres. Presumably all Centres will send along a rep to the regional meetings which will deal with matters like the Assoc.Chall. the Regional Championships, Regional Masters, State Government Funding Opportunities and the like.
I can see no reason why Toowoomba & DD could not do the same.
Even Brisbane will probably eventually go Centre based and I can just imagine it all hitting the fan when the Challenge goes to Brisbane if something is not agreed upon now.
With regard to the present arrangements, I will go along with whatever the Gold Coast Team Bowlers decide. If they say that they will or will not bowl without sanctioning I will support that decision. Hopefully it won't come to that.

 

[zane que]

Barry,

It is true that I told the Management of Sunset that I would not allow T&DDTBA to host the tournament in our centre. Tell me a Proprietor that would. How about you phone the other 9 Associations and ask them where they really want to bowl. I have spoken to many involved and the current status of the tournament is not at all popular. I said what I said to Sunset for the benefit of our sport because had Sunset not have wished to give you the venue I believe it would have left Toowoomba. I did not want this to occur. This statement is nothing against Sunset. That bickering is in the past and does not occur anymore. That attitude left with the previous management of Garden City Lanes.T&DDTBA left of their own accord and don't dare deny this because perhaps you really could produce those audio tapes of our meeting and the real truth may be heard. I could not sit back any longer and see all this continue. I recieved inspiration from people such as John Griffin( Sunshine Coast ), John McKenna ( Rockhampton), Narelle Quali ( Sunshine Coast ), Members of the Gold Coast Team and the list goes on. I really am working for the best interests of Bowling in Toowoomba and I am certain as are many other people that 3 Associations is not in the sports best interest. I recall in the past arguments from members of your committee that there should only be one Association in Toowoomba so I think 3 is a bit of a contradiction in terms. This is the last I will say on this long winded saga and I am sure in the end the tournament will be played where the majority wish it to be held.

Zane Que

 

[Mr Mac]

Hi Barry
A lot of discussion took place in Ipswich in 2002 as to the rotation of the Association Challenge between a Small Centre one year and then a Larger Centre the next year and so on.
2002 was a larger centre in Ipswich, 2003 was to be a smaller centre (Garden City) and 2004 a larger centre (Rockhampton).
If you alter this rotation to a larger centre in 2003 then, by the existing rules, 2004 is to be a smaller centre. Breaking rules is naturally a problem for many people, as is sticking only to those rules that suite and I am concerned if this rule is broken for the Tournament.
The Rockhampton Association is to be the host of the Tournament in 2004 at a larger centre.
One would like to think that no Association will advance the arguement in Toowoomba in 2003 that, if it goes to Sunset (a larger centre) then 2004 has to be a smaller centre?
The Rockhampton Bowlers have had to travel now for 12 years in a row to a 10 year round robbin event. And I do not think it all fair if they have to travel 13 years in a row when it should have only been 9 anyway.
Are you sure that the Rockhampton Bowlers will not be once again disadvantaged by your decision to change from a small centre to a larger centre. This is one of the reasons I am sticking to a Smaller Centre - Garden City Lanes for 2003 - as it will not be at all fair or accceptiable if Rockhampton Bowlers are once again disadvantaged by your decisions, to break one of the rules of the Tournament.
John McKenna

 

[andrewbc]

and it continues

and the bullshit continues!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder our sport is decreasing with this type of crap going around. :evil:

Is there anybody who can give an offiicial ruling as to where the association challenge can be held and who has the rights to run it.

Couple of queestions.

1. Do they need TBAL License to sanction a tournament. From my understanding, Tom, D**K and Harry could run a Tournament and they dont need a license, they just have to pay the sanctioning fees to TBAL. (I could be wrong)

2. The T&DDTBA won the bid to host the tournament. Could someone please explain why it should automatically go to another association in Toowoomba???? What about the next Association that just missed out!!!

3. Are T&DDTBA and Ipswich Associations allowed to enter a team in to the Association Challenge since their Licenses have been removed??

John,

Just wondering did the association challenge original start with ten teams or was if smaller then grew. At any stage was there more or less 10 Associations involved in this tournament?? If so, this would have played a part in why Rocky has had the association challenge yet.


Anyhow hope to read some constructive and informative replys.

 

[craig]

In victoria they just run a roster based on when you joined the competition, nobody jumps turn and there is no bidding, you could tell who was hosting the tournament next year, in 5 years or 10 or more years.

how simple is that, do we really have to have a problem???

big centre, small centre, who cares

And in toowoomba we have a centre that wants to host the tournament and a committee that wants to run it, and at the end of the day, this variable is being blown out of proportion due to PEOPLE NOT WILLING TO WORK TOGETHER FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SPORT.

If the ideals of this tournament are not rectified immediately, you will see it on the tournament scrap heap within 5 years.

 

[steve b]

Barry, John, and others interested.

To whom it may concern;
I on behalf of the bowlers at Garden City am taking action to resolve this situation. We as bowlers understand are right to call a special meeting and call for the resignation of the board on the ground of a double disillusion. Since no bowlers where ever asked their opinions as to what to do about their centres Assoc. or even asked if their Assoc. Challenge should be held any where else.
By the way isn't the challenge supposed to be held in a TBAL sancationed centre also? Is Sunset under another Body?
Barry F.
Since you and the board keep making these decisions based upon what you believe to be in the the best interest of the bowlers, but without even seeking their input, makes you all look like fools.
We will win!!!!
The Assoc. will be brought back to the centre and thus we will be able to hold the Challenge at the centre that won the right to hold it.
Since you have not answered any questions in regards to those asked of you from me on behalf of the bowlers (Not the management) in the past, then we have no other opition but to take it a step futher and officially notify you that we seek a meeting on the matter, and your resignations to be handed over also, to be held at 26 Stuart St. Toowoomba on Sat. 22/03/03 at 3pm.
Be there or the next step is to contact Trade Practices about your Inc. licence.
Yes it is that serious.............
For years now we have heard you and others say that you will never give Sunset another dollar, but only to turn too them now because you all hold grudges with someone at Garden City. Well the time has come to rid the sport of the self centred egos that think it all revolves around them. It doesn't it 's all about the sport and the people involved in it.
At no time have I or will I ever hold a grudge against another centre or fellow bowler. I only believe in standing up for my rights and the rights of others. I have and still will bowl at Sunset from time to time.
They (Sunset) seem to be the meat in the sandwich with the Assoc. Challenge, since T&DDTBA contacted them and them alone, as to what to do about this situation.
Steve B.

 

[Gismo]

To all bowlers of Garden City Lanes and Sunset Superbowl,

In the next few days notification will be sent to both centres informing them of roll-offs for the Toowoomba team for the association challenge. I look forward to seeing all bowlers who wish to represent Toowoomba to turn up, allowing Toowoomba to have a truely competitive team to challenge for the title.

The Association Challenge, in my opinion, is one of the truely prestigious events that all bowlers in the areas participating should aspire to bowl in. Their are few events left in bowling where the ideals are about sportmanship and bowling as a team.

This tournament has never been about money and it is gratifying to see in the past that some of the top bowlers in Queensland have bowled in the tournament. That is what this sport should be about. Not for the money. Not for the glory. Playing the sport because it is a sport and because you enjoy it.

I look forward to seeing all those who have made their area's teams at this years challenge. I offer my congratulations to those who made a team. See you all June 7th.

Scott.

Ps. For any queries regarding the association challenge I suggest you contact your association or contact via email Barry Fagg, John Wiffen or myself - g_mogwai@hotmail.com We are only too glad to help out if we can.

 

[steve b]

lackey

Scott,
In light of the recent events, you and the board have been asked to step down, thus cease operating and trying to organise things before your demise. You are not operating under the wishers of the bowlers. You personally have not been elected by the full board to be in any possition to handle the Assoc. Challenge so back off and abide by the rules of the constitution which states the members have the right to call a special meeting seeking the replacement of any or all board members, and once notified of such action the said board members must cease making any decisions until the said meeting has taken place. Or are you going to break another rule to suit yourself.
All you have to do is admit you where wrong by the removal of equipment and seek an apologue and I'm sure you will be allowed back in to Garden City Lanes. Sorry thats beyond you. Take a good look around and you might see that you can do many things on your own instead of being leed by others. Or are you in it for the personal gain, that has just fallen around your ears.
Steve B.