Are all the major tournaments doomed ?

[greg holmes]

After reading the recent posts regarding F.I.Q. selection is this a legitimate question?
I have noticed the "regular" names at tournaments seems to be dwindling since A.O.
Is the new selection process a case now of take your one and only chance and if not successful simply wait until next year.
I sincerly hope the major tournaments dont end up falling away based on this years teams selections. It really would be a backward step for bowling in this country.

Greg Holmes.

 

[greg holmes]

After reading the recent posts regarding F.I.Q. selection is this a legitimate question?
I have noticed the "regular" names at tournaments seems to be dwindling since A.O.
Is the new selection process a case now of take your one and only chance and if not successful simply wait until next year.
I sincerly hope the major tournaments dont end up falling away based on this years teams selections. It really would be a backward step for bowling in this country.

Greg Holmes.

 

[GeorgeF]

Good point Greg, I agree that the incentive to bowl numerous National events has died. The only interest now is if you live close by to the centre (namely the next closest state). Even then people are getting really fussy about the money aspect so the numbers continue to die.

I understand what TBA were doing with the selection roll offs this year but in doing so I think they shot themselves in the foot. National ratings don't count for anything and we have numerous current Australian representitives who bowl a handful of events every year. It then raises the question " Why bowl tournaments ".

I agree totally with what you said and even though QBert might be a little out spoken and direct in his messages, I tend to agree with most of what he/she is saying.

Money is he key to help the dwindling numbers, I'm sure if there was a tournament on where 1st place was $10000 and 40th place was $1000 with a $150 entry fee, you'd have over 300 entries and you'd have to run the tournament over 3-5 days. Money talks, bull%&*$ walks.

We need sponsors to get on TV but can only attract sponsors when the sport is already on TV, it's a catch 22 and to date no one has come up with a decent solution or suggestion. I hope in 10 years we can look back on times like these and say remember back in those days when we played for $3000 1st place, hahahahah. Anyway, as they say in the movie the Castle, " Tell him he's dreamin "! I hope the trend doesn't continue.

G

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Great topic just I think that you are going up the wrong path.

Selection methods are not changing why some tournament numbers are dwindling (Melb Cup did have 120 odd not bad I thought)
Format and cost are changing peoples minds about playing.

Format:
1. Too many games in one weekend, to many decent older guys will not play 40 games over one weekend...not to mention to many guys in their mid 30's who are complaining about going to work the day after busting their guts for 21 games. I believe that at least 10-20 guys are forced into early retirement from our magor events. I have said it once but I will say it again.....we bowl more tournament games in a day then any nation on earth..is it making us any better?

2. Carry over pinfall....great for the really good bowlers...say your going to stop it and see who will holler the most. Too many times we think bowling should be like golf, but the problem with bowling is that we don't have 18 different holes that can suit different types of golfers, we have one lane condition which for the most is pretty similar, so a certain type of player can just play his A game for the whole event and never really be tested. Qualifying is for a final, then all those who have can test themselves against every other qualifier from scratch. We need to get away from the notion of the TOP QUALIFIER is at a disadvantage because pinfall is dropped, he or she already has something..that is why they finished on top...NOW they need to do it when it counts, when everyone is playing on the same condition at the same time.

Related to the above is cost...simple bowl more games and the tournament will cost more.

We need to have more bowlers making a final, dropping pinfall and play 10 or 12 games total pinfall. Or the above, play 8 games cut to smaller amount of bowlers and play 4 more then cut to a stepladder.
Or move to where the pros are with the best of 5 game elimination.

On a different point, anyone who was at the Melbourne cup could tell that these long format tournaments are getting boring to watch, even the guy on the microphone struggled to get the spectators to get into it. ( or maybe they were in awe of Belmo?? I know I was) but hey...5 and 1/2 hours till we find out who wins.... that is worse than golf.

Now if Belmo was matched up against 28th qualfier in a best of 5 game match.. now that would be interesting. Why? because every 45 mins there is a life and death contest going on, the bowlers are pumped so would be the spectators...game 7 of 15 games of matchplay sounds boring typing it let alone watching it.

Even 12 games total pinfall is more exciting to watch, normally because the scores are always pretty close, you don't have to be superman to compete, more bowlers can make the final, (normally means more people will be there to watch..ie family friends) then throw in a stepladder to make the grand finale. Start the event at a reasonable time (spetators hate getting to the bowl at 9am on a public holiday) and finish it mid afternoon so bowlers and spectators can still make flights and or drive intra/interstate.

My long weekend magor format:
8 games qual day one
6 games qual day 2, skins event or similar for non qualifiers on the evening day 2
Top 30 scores
drop pinfall
12 games total pinfall..top 3 stepladder
or
top 28 scores,
single elimination best of 5 game matches, top 4 qualifiers get bye into round 2. Win 5 matches and you win the event. Some may say luck gets in the way of this single elimination format, maybe it does a little. But if you can't beat a guy over 5 games.. you ain't got no chance over 21, thats for sure.

Sorry I took so long but I always do.
AF

 

[GeorgeF]

Good point Greg, I agree that the incentive to bowl numerous National events has died. The only interest now is if you live close by to the centre (namely the next closest state). Even then people are getting really fussy about the money aspect so the numbers continue to die.

I understand what TBA were doing with the selection roll offs this year but in doing so I think they shot themselves in the foot. National ratings don't count for anything and we have numerous current Australian representitives who bowl a handful of events every year. It then raises the question " Why bowl tournaments ".

I agree totally with what you said and even though QBert might be a little out spoken and direct in his messages, I tend to agree with most of what he/she is saying.

Money is he key to help the dwindling numbers, I'm sure if there was a tournament on where 1st place was $10000 and 40th place was $1000 with a $150 entry fee, you'd have over 300 entries and you'd have to run the tournament over 3-5 days. Money talks, bull%&*$ walks.

We need sponsors to get on TV but can only attract sponsors when the sport is already on TV, it's a catch 22 and to date no one has come up with a decent solution or suggestion. I hope in 10 years we can look back on times like these and say remember back in those days when we played for $3000 1st place, hahahahah. Anyway, as they say in the movie the Castle, " Tell him he's dreamin "! I hope the trend doesn't continue.

G

 

[Andrew Frawley]

Great topic just I think that you are going up the wrong path.

Selection methods are not changing why some tournament numbers are dwindling (Melb Cup did have 120 odd not bad I thought)
Format and cost are changing peoples minds about playing.

Format:
1. Too many games in one weekend, to many decent older guys will not play 40 games over one weekend...not to mention to many guys in their mid 30's who are complaining about going to work the day after busting their guts for 21 games. I believe that at least 10-20 guys are forced into early retirement from our magor events. I have said it once but I will say it again.....we bowl more tournament games in a day then any nation on earth..is it making us any better?

2. Carry over pinfall....great for the really good bowlers...say your going to stop it and see who will holler the most. Too many times we think bowling should be like golf, but the problem with bowling is that we don't have 18 different holes that can suit different types of golfers, we have one lane condition which for the most is pretty similar, so a certain type of player can just play his A game for the whole event and never really be tested. Qualifying is for a final, then all those who have can test themselves against every other qualifier from scratch. We need to get away from the notion of the TOP QUALIFIER is at a disadvantage because pinfall is dropped, he or she already has something..that is why they finished on top...NOW they need to do it when it counts, when everyone is playing on the same condition at the same time.

Related to the above is cost...simple bowl more games and the tournament will cost more.

We need to have more bowlers making a final, dropping pinfall and play 10 or 12 games total pinfall. Or the above, play 8 games cut to smaller amount of bowlers and play 4 more then cut to a stepladder.
Or move to where the pros are with the best of 5 game elimination.

On a different point, anyone who was at the Melbourne cup could tell that these long format tournaments are getting boring to watch, even the guy on the microphone struggled to get the spectators to get into it. ( or maybe they were in awe of Belmo?? I know I was) but hey...5 and 1/2 hours till we find out who wins.... that is worse than golf.

Now if Belmo was matched up against 28th qualfier in a best of 5 game match.. now that would be interesting. Why? because every 45 mins there is a life and death contest going on, the bowlers are pumped so would be the spectators...game 7 of 15 games of matchplay sounds boring typing it let alone watching it.

Even 12 games total pinfall is more exciting to watch, normally because the scores are always pretty close, you don't have to be superman to compete, more bowlers can make the final, (normally means more people will be there to watch..ie family friends) then throw in a stepladder to make the grand finale. Start the event at a reasonable time (spetators hate getting to the bowl at 9am on a public holiday) and finish it mid afternoon so bowlers and spectators can still make flights and or drive intra/interstate.

My long weekend magor format:
8 games qual day one
6 games qual day 2, skins event or similar for non qualifiers on the evening day 2
Top 30 scores
drop pinfall
12 games total pinfall..top 3 stepladder
or
top 28 scores,
single elimination best of 5 game matches, top 4 qualifiers get bye into round 2. Win 5 matches and you win the event. Some may say luck gets in the way of this single elimination format, maybe it does a little. But if you can't beat a guy over 5 games.. you ain't got no chance over 21, thats for sure.

Sorry I took so long but I always do.
AF

 

[jimcross]

Well said,Andrew. I have been saying for years that tournament formats generally are nonsense. I raved on about it once on the old forums.Every event being a marathon is stupid,for all the reasons you say. also,think of the prizemoney---If entry fees stayed the same,and the lineage cost came down,because of the fewer games,the prizemoney could be higher and run down further.There may even be more entries,after bowlers got used to it,compensating Centres for the fewer games.
This is not to say that I don't feel for those bowling most of the current events only to find that rankings apparently play only a minor role in selection.

 

[jimcross]

Well said,Andrew. I have been saying for years that tournament formats generally are nonsense. I raved on about it once on the old forums.Every event being a marathon is stupid,for all the reasons you say. also,think of the prizemoney---If entry fees stayed the same,and the lineage cost came down,because of the fewer games,the prizemoney could be higher and run down further.There may even be more entries,after bowlers got used to it,compensating Centres for the fewer games.
This is not to say that I don't feel for those bowling most of the current events only to find that rankings apparently play only a minor role in selection.