8 pins start for women commencing in 2013

[Michael Little]

Jason, about the following observation - "And Jim, Adam Goldberg has no superiority complex, just a bloody good work ethic!"- unlike me,you're obviously busy. When you have the time, have another little read of what I said.
Cheers, Jim

PS, I suppose I'm a bit like Fitzy, in that I like to do the 'encourage conversation' bit.
I still tend to wonder - when is a scratch event not a scratch event?

One thing I would like to add Jim, that probably hasn't really been covered either, is that other countries/zones in other parts of the world where this is and has been the norm for a while. Those areas, don't have any genuine women's tours or series of events. Much like here, the women only have four tournaments all year plus masters to compete in. Now IMO, part of this is the women's fault in not supporting their own tournaments and allowing entries to fall away, but in order to offer a measurable pathway to recognising performance for things like NTS and National Team, the women are best served being able to bowl enough tournaments to reach their 4 for the year. At least this gives those women the option/choice to bowl an event if they can't make one of their own ranked events.

Just highlighting another possible purpose of doing this, but national teams from all around the world are obviously decided in some way on performance, this way at least entices some to enter other events they might not of.

 

[Michael Little]

While I agree with the 8 pins for women, why not look at other areas to get more players interested in playing. Maybe to make the cut on Sunday from the normal 24 take it to 36 and instead of playing 6 or 8 then cutting again why not play either the whole day or cut at 12 and then play 2 or 4 for result.
More chances to make the cut might attract those that are fringe players, give them experience on what the second day is all about and bring them back next time.

Without trying to sound elitist here, the tournaments we are talking about are national tournaments, supposedly the pinnacle of the tournament bowling calendar. It is a hard one to find the happy medium in entries vs payouts, but whilst paying down further may entice some more to bowl, it will also as Matt said increase lineage costs and potentially reduce payouts and should tournaments of this stature really be rewarding someone who finishes 30-40th in a field of 60-70, even 80 bowlers?

There are a lot of tournaments, mainly in eastern states at the moment, that cater for more even payouts, and promote a tournament level experience. Bowlers should view these tournaments for what they are in terms of preparing to take a step up to a national tournament. I think spreading the payouts too far down the list, dilutes the difference in tournament levels a little too much and blurs them together. I think 1-3 payouts are fine with the odd tournament hitting 1-2 here and there.

 

[Michael Little]

Statistics that are manipulated can support anyone's argument. (In a previous role, I provided operational management information analysis at the Australian Bureau of Statistics, but don't in any way claim to be a statistician.) Michael's Q&D analysis looks pretty sound to me at first blush though.

But I do agree with you Fitzy, let's suck it and see! It seems to be working OK overseas. Although with today's hyper-reactive, proto-nuclear impact gear, it does leave me wondering why women aren't winning more. Probably because they're looking after families on the weekends. If only bowling centres had undercover parking like the casinos, this could be sorted out! (JOKE! REALLY!!) There are many occasions where I think "That girl's a hair's breadth away from crushing this condition..." And I genuinely think that comes down to stuff Frank and Adam have covered already.

And Jim, Adam Goldberg has no superiority complex, just a bloody good work ethic!

Going for four posts in a row Jason, so here goes, you are right in that todays steroid balls, give some women a massive leg up, but I personally think that over a longer tournament format, the guys will be able to over power the lanes and wear a spot conducive to scoring, ie getting inside, physical specs dictates that women will have trouble matching this due to power, rotation and tilt required. As I said earlier, even with the more 'open' conditions with the dual entry tournaments, the women have come close but never really matched the guys in averages. Most of the guys tournaments this year, have laid down patterns which require starting right and moving left throughout the day.

 

[John_Velo]

G’Day,

I was planning on staying out of this conversation. But, everybody else has put their 20cents worth in. So deep breath and here I go.

I am a League hack, I bowl the sports series in NSW and have chosen to bowl three other events a year, NSW Open, Orange and Bathurst. I bowl these event for the pleasure of bowling with the best in the country. To learn from the best and improve my own game. I am lucky that my local centre has some of the best bowlers in the country also, so each week it is amazing to see what these guys can do and the numbers they can rake up keeps me grounded and in my place as bowler.

I don’t bowl in the events that the 80 pins apply to as I am not a 220 average bowler. I am ok with that and perfectly OK with the TBA giving the ladies a start and chance to compete. Something needs to be done so the ladies have a fair go when there are no events at all for them.

Sure, being a fringe bowler, bottom half of the first cut, I would be more than likely to miss the cut in events due to the 80 pins. So I would be effected by the rule if applied to the events I do bowl in.

But here is the way I look at it personally.

For me that 80 pins is incentive to look at my own game and have a go at closing the gaps in my personal performance. Practice a little harder when I can.

Per ten games of qualifying I miss enough spares to add 120 pins plus to my pin fall, keeping in mind most of that ladies have excellent spare games. If I close those spares I get those 80 pins back and find myself averaging 215 instead of 205. If I can play a little safer and remove say, four splits from my 10 games I have just added another 40 pins, all of a sudden I am looking at competing for a top ten playoff spot shooting around 220 average. Then the 80 pins really won’t matter, but that’s just me.

On the tournament side, I would love to see a state series that has 10 or 12 rounds, ten games one squad, with a playoff series 3-2, winner plays 1. Then the winner of each series gets a spot in a major. Getting numbers to tournaments that run for two days is costly, most people have work commitment and families commitments, but one Sunday a month could be possible. That would give more people the chance to play sports events and improve. Maybe have a final event for the top 12 bowlers for the series to play head to head for a grand state champion. Our state series is well run and has offered many challenges for me personally. The learning from these event is amazing. You will improve, if you are not competing now you would do well to give one a try. I would also like to see the TBA get behind these events and make them the norm for the states, bringing the countries bowlers together on one platform. Smaller purse sizes for the winner but more winners at a smaller cost. Then centres would also benifit from the lineage on a Sunday morning.

Breath out.

 

[Animal]

As a Bowler, Tournament Promoter, and Sponsor, I constantly look at ways to improve our SPORT,
not egos. TBA have bitten the bullet and made the decision, lets see if it has the desired effect.
Ladies bowling worldwide is in a bad way, not just Australia, and if we can improve the participation
numbers of our women, who knows, maybe we will end up with more than a dozen top end women
competitors in our country. I just wish that more people that take from our sport would put a little back into it.
Animal